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I've heard about it yesterday on SainT thread
And I was about to ask the same question here ^^ (even if I'm believing that the problem was already sorted by DS)
 
Hey guys have you heard about this ?

https://db-electronics.ca/2017/07/05/the-dangers-of-3-3v-flash-in-retro-consoles/#comment-2809

This problem affects some variant/versions of everdrives, and I think the NeoSD...

I suppose the DS version is safe with that
I posted asking on the everdrive forums about this. Frankly this line is what got me:

3.75V is in fact lower than the Absolute Maximum Rating Voltage Input of Vcc + 0.6V. But, designs should never exceed the DC Characteristics of a component. Furthermore, as can be read from the paragraph in the M29W datasheet below, “These are stress ratings only and operation of the device at these or any other conditions above those indicated in the Operatings sections of this specification is not implied”. Or, to summarise, don’t count on the part working properly above the specifications of Table 11.

I left his spelling mistake in on that one.

I've worked on LV components for a long time. Yes, in theory this can be dangerous but he's talking about a 1.5v DC differential. He writes later:

"On the cartridge side, the stress is excessive heat dissipation"

Yes he's correct. Thing is that 1.5v of heat is minimal here. If this was an ultra compact design running in 1/5 the space there would be more concern but I'm betting it isn't here. Some Everdrives have been around and running for years without issues.

I'll give an example. I have a Gonbes GBS-8200. You're supposed to run this on the 5v rail of an arcade machine. I errantly hooked one into the 12v rail and ran it for an hour without realizing there was an issue. It was hot to the touch but was still outputting video. At more than 2x the voltage it still worked. I unplugged it, switched it to the 5v rail, plugged it back in, and it's been running since 2011.

Also, Krikzz replied here:

http://krikzz.com/forum/index.php?topic=6614.msg51195#msg51195
 
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Like I said on shmups system 11 :

So for me the two everdrives incriminated are : the turbo everdrive and
the mega everdrive V2 (X7), using them since 2013 nothing to report for
now...well damages could be there or not...maybe my consoles will keep
up until another thing would affect or this would be caused by
everdrives ?


Who could tells


We need bigger tests, on very
large scales to determinate if these products could affect consoles
immediatly, or in the near future


For now Krikkz seems to have
included this fact on his newers versions (well the versions who will
comes...) just hope the multi neo & cie would not gives headhache to
their owners


I think the DarkSoft one is safe...
icon_cool.gif
 
Hey guys have you heard about this ?

https://db-electronics.ca/2017/07/05/the-dangers-of-3-3v-flash-in-retro-consoles/#comment-2809

This problem affects some variant/versions of everdrives, and I think the NeoSD...

I suppose the DS version is safe with that
I posted asking on the everdrive forums about this. Frankly this line is what got me:
3.75V is in fact lower than the Absolute Maximum Rating Voltage Input of Vcc + 0.6V. But, designs should never exceed the DC Characteristics of a component. Furthermore, as can be read from the paragraph in the M29W datasheet below, “These are stress ratings only and operation of the device at these or any other conditions above those indicated in the Operatings sections of this specification is not implied”. Or, to summarise, don’t count on the part working properly above the specifications of Table 11.

I left his spelling mistake in on that one.

I've worked on LV components for a long time. Yes, in theory this can be dangerous but he's talking about a 1.5v DC differential. He writes later:

"On the cartridge side, the stress is excessive heat dissipation"

Yes he's correct. Thing is that 1.5v of heat is minimal here. If this was an ultra compact design running in 1/5 the space there would be more concern but I'm betting it isn't here. Some Everdrives have been around and running for years without issues.

I'll give an example. I have a Gonbes GBS-8200. You're supposed to run this on the 5v rail of an arcade machine. I errantly hooked one into the 12v rail and ran it for an hour without realizing there was an issue. It was hot to the touch but was still outputting video. At more than 2x the voltage it still worked. I unplugged it, switched it to the 5v rail, plugged it back in, and it's been running since 2011.

Also, Krikzz replied here:

http://krikzz.com/forum/index.php?topic=6614.msg51195#msg51195
So I do have an EE background and read the article as well. I still don't think it's that huge a deal. What I'm not fond of is how people just call each other out these days without contacting the engineer first. I don't feel that is right. What will happen down the road is someone will criticize someone else's work and a dumb flame war will occur. I've worked with many engineers over the years. I've always gone directly to the engineer before bringing any finding up. I feel it is a professional courtesy. It also gives the other engineer time to respond. In fact, if Krikzz wanted to, he could have just said, "That's it, I'm done!" and we wouldn't have any rom carts down the road. Maybe it is just that I'm old....IDK.
 
Hey guys have you heard about this ?

https://db-electronics.ca/2017/07/05/the-dangers-of-3-3v-flash-in-retro-consoles/#comment-2809

This problem affects some variant/versions of everdrives, and I think the NeoSD...

I suppose the DS version is safe with that
I posted asking on the everdrive forums about this. Frankly this line is what got me:3.75V is in fact lower than the Absolute Maximum Rating Voltage Input of Vcc + 0.6V. But, designs should never exceed the DC Characteristics of a component. Furthermore, as can be read from the paragraph in the M29W datasheet below, “These are stress ratings only and operation of the device at these or any other conditions above those indicated in the Operatings sections of this specification is not implied”. Or, to summarise, don’t count on the part working properly above the specifications of Table 11.

I left his spelling mistake in on that one.

I've worked on LV components for a long time. Yes, in theory this can be dangerous but he's talking about a 1.5v DC differential. He writes later:

"On the cartridge side, the stress is excessive heat dissipation"

Yes he's correct. Thing is that 1.5v of heat is minimal here. If this was an ultra compact design running in 1/5 the space there would be more concern but I'm betting it isn't here. Some Everdrives have been around and running for years without issues.

I'll give an example. I have a Gonbes GBS-8200. You're supposed to run this on the 5v rail of an arcade machine. I errantly hooked one into the 12v rail and ran it for an hour without realizing there was an issue. It was hot to the touch but was still outputting video. At more than 2x the voltage it still worked. I unplugged it, switched it to the 5v rail, plugged it back in, and it's been running since 2011.

Also, Krikzz replied here:

http://krikzz.com/forum/index.php?topic=6614.msg51195#msg51195
So I do have an EE background and read the article as well. I still don't think it's that huge a deal. What I'm not fond of is how people just call each other out these days without contacting the engineer first. I don't feel that is right. What will happen down the road is someone will criticize someone else's work and a dumb flame war will occur. I've worked with many engineers over the years. I've always gone directly to the engineer before bringing any finding up. I feel it is a professional courtesy. It also gives the other engineer time to respond. In fact, if Krikzz wanted to, he could have just said, "That's it, I'm done!" and we wouldn't have any rom carts down the road. Maybe it is just that I'm old....IDK.
Some people just want to make drama :(
 
Have you read my response ?

All that story is a bit too much

I'm happy with my evedrives as I will be with the DS one ^^
 
So I do have an EE background and read the article as well. I still don't think it's that huge a deal. What I'm not fond of is how people just call each other out these days without contacting the engineer first. I don't feel that is right. What will happen down the road is someone will criticize someone else's work and a dumb flame war will occur. I've worked with many engineers over the years. I've always gone directly to the engineer before bringing any finding up. I feel it is a professional courtesy. It also gives the other engineer time to respond. In fact, if Krikzz wanted to, he could have just said, "That's it, I'm done!" and we wouldn't have any rom carts down the road. Maybe it is just that I'm old....IDK.
I think he means well, and he is making a point here, but we're talking about a 1.5v differential at the absolute worst. He could easily have just sent Krikzz an email and seen what he said(I've mailed him and gotten responses so I know it happens). Instead he basically did a blog post where he can control the responses. Not cool. Just as a test I threw my mega everdrive on my opened test bed and was looking for voltage spiking and temperature issues. Guess what? NOTHING. It's been on for about 3 days now. I have a temperature monitor on it just to see what happens and the temperature variance I'm seeing is +/- .5 degrees C. Completely within the limits. I'm also not seeing any abnormal spikes.

Side note here....as someone that has been around LV components, this is a minor, minor variance to be concerned with. As much as he's concerned with the flash carts, it's just as possible that it's his hardware. The Mega Drive, TG16, etc were all operating in a range anyway.
 
Kruuth, you should post that comment over in the Krikzz forum where it will get some attention. The more I look at the DB write-up, the less comfortable I am with its interpretations.
 
Can we split this level translation issue up to a seperate topic? It's interesting, but would be more appropriate to post info regarding these issues in a seperate topic.
 
I have discussed this blog post with others when it was first published.

The blog posted is titled "The Dangers of 3.3V Flash in Retro Consoles", but the post does not go on to explain what this perceived danger is. He does go on to explain potential theoretical damage, but without any evidence to support the theory.

I will agree that proper level translation is the best way to design a circuit interfaced between 5v/3v3. That does not mean the older designs from Krikzz are wrong, faulty, or dangerous.

Now this design is complete garbage. Whoever made this design should be ashamed of themselves. The Flash used here is a MXIC 29GL256E which are clearly rated for 3.6V maximum. The most frightening thing about this board however are the two diodes above the MXIC Flash chip. I REALLY hope they don’t use those to lower the 5V rail down to power the Flash. This is the type of PCB which has reportedly caused some NES consoles to die within a few months of use. Presumably the NES version is the same shitty design. Stay away!
Let's use this critique from the blog post. The poster is supplying expert opinion about electronics design, but cannot identify the diodes in this configuration as Diode-OR for battery/host voltage switching.

Always remember, not every opinion on the internet is correct (and that applies to my post too!) :thumbsup:
 
I started to read transversally the Mega Everdrive X7 veredict and what I read is:

[...] from the looks [...] It is not quite clear to me [...] There does appear [...] but it is unclear whether or not [...]

So far everything sounds pretty dumb blonde to me.. but then :

"Veredict = Avoid"

HUH???

im-not-sure-whats-going-on-but-my-asshole-is-1689023.png
 
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I lost interest when he started talking about the evils of driving chips with a 3.6V max rating at 3.75V, but he then even goes on to state that this is still within tolerance. Granted, it’s at the upper end, but I’m not sure what most would perceive as a relatively minor and mostly theoretical problem warrants such sensationalist douchebaggery. In practice, the heat dissipation about which he seems so concerned would be almost unmeasurable, certainly far from the fireball in the image at the top of the post. I’m not sure why he has an axe to grind. Maybe he’ll release his own flashcart range to show everyone how it should be done. ;)
 
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