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freddiefiasco

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Has anyone had any success using Arcade Driving cabinets with gaming consoles such as PS3/Xbox 360/PC games?

The force feedback on SEGA driving cabinets are way better than those flimsy logitech wheels like the G27 but am curious if some kind of method to adapt arcade cabs for use with home console/PC games exists.
 
I have not done this in an arcade cab.. I build an 80/20 setup for PC and consoles.. I purchased an over the top direct wheel drive setup but I could only get iRacing working on it.. Direct wheel Drive is the fure in about 10 years or so once it becomes the standard.. I change the gear to the Fanatec flagship wheel and the wheel feels good and compatible with almost all games, except P3/PS4.. I tried TH wheel and I didn't like them.
 
I've done a lot of work logging the protocol for the Sega MIDI force feedback system, and am working on a translator for other arcade games. I also have the means of using my driving cab's controls as a PC controller by way of my custom MEGA JVS I/O board. @invzim makes the JVS-PAC and might develop one that support analog, which would be an option for easily interfacing cab controls with a pc.

For any force feedback integration, it's going to be a matter of interfacing and translating from one protocol to another.

If the goal is to wire controls into a console, that's a whole other protocol translation task with complex adapters needed.

It probably all CAN be done, but it would require dedicated individuals to be motivated to spend a ton of time per console/game/ffb protocol.


I'm likely not taking my project further than FFB translations between Sega MIDI, Sega RS42, and Namco RS232 standards.
 
gamecube might be do-able as i believe from some discussion on the dolphin forums that it's FFB protocol is simply direction and force (though doing this on actual hardware would be another matter). I've heard that the Xbox 360's FFB protocol is one of the most unique/poorly documented.

Though I wonder how difficult it would be to gut a logitech or similar wheel and map the output data to the sega equipment... basically like an elaborate pad-hack.
 
This thread is relevant to my interests

I've got a driving cab I've been tempted to convert to MAME because the original game for it (Taito Super Chase) is rare/expensive as hell and I don't have any attachment to that game at all.

I've almost finished restoring the cab itself and it would be a real shame to completely ruin a dedicated cab installing a G27 and pedals (which is what I bought it for originally before discovering it was a mostly original dedicated cab, it's an ideal candidate otherwise)

If I could install a JAMMA based Raspberry Pi (it's been hacked to JAMMA to run World Rally) or similar and interface with the controls on the cab, that would be ideal
 
gamecube might be do-able as i believe from some discussion on the dolphin forums that it's FFB protocol is simply direction and force (though doing this on actual hardware would be another matter). I've heard that the Xbox 360's FFB protocol is one of the most unique/poorly documented.

Though I wonder how difficult it would be to gut a logitech or similar wheel and map the output data to the sega equipment... basically like an elaborate pad-hack.
This is basically what I want/need to do. I have the G27 but Logitech likes to release a hardware setup every new console so their previous setup refuses to play well with newer consoles. With the release of GT Sport yesterday, I had to play it on my G27 using CronusMax Pro and it works really well. However, arcade cabinets are just too sophisticated in design and ruggedness that the G27 + CronusMax Pro attached to a TV dinner table tray just can't compete with a SEGA cabinet.

The force feedback on the G27 seems to be translatable or at least attached to the MEGA JVS I/O to receive the signals coming from the G27 and used on the SEGA cab. I just don't want to gut a G27 for the sole purpose of speculation until I find some broken one on ebay and gutting that one instead.

(G27 is still worth getting instead of the G29 for non cabinet owners)
 
The problem is that there are dozens of different "Standards" for how FFB works.

Generally you have the pot which determines the position of the wheel, also used for the steering input, then you have a motor which can spin in either direction at varying levels of force. You then have a "Servo Motor Board" which supplies power to the motor, and you have a "drive board" which processes the forcefeedback data and the wheel position and determines the direction and force that the motor should be spinning.

Sometimes the drive board and the motor control board are combined into 1 pcb. other times you only have a drive board and the motor control board functionality is handled by the game board.

So really you have 3 configuration types
1. distinct motor and drive boards
2. combine motor and drive board (often just called a "drive board")
3. motor board only (drive board function handled by game pcb)

so if you have a setup like #1 or #3 above you could probably use some simple logic or a micro controller to adapt the output of something like a Logitech wheel to whatever your motor board needs for input.

Atomiswave driving games use a setup like #3 and some Model 3 era Sega games uses a setup like #1 but I think the majority of arcade games uses a setup like #2 unfortunately.

even with those different setups the data that flows between the game pcb and the drive board and the drive board and the motor board is different from platform to platform and sometimes game to game.
 
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It's all the variations that make things complicated for sure.

Is it a bi-directional protocol (i.e. the protocol is a series of commands and replies)? Are you converting from one bi-directional protocol to another bi-directional protocol? That's where things get especially complicated. You have to read in the command from the source, translate it to the command for the destination, potentially deal with any replies back to the destination (if needed), and then send a reply back to the source (which can be a simple acknowledgement reply, but could also be more complicated and contextual to what is happening with the wheel).

In my opinion, it's going to be a matter of someone who has ONE game they love and the motivation to make the ONE arcade FFB they have access to work with that one game.

In the case of adapting from a more universal wheel (like the G27?), I suppose a solution there might be a little more applicable to more than one game. The best solution would be one that replaces the dedicated source hardware. An ideal G27 to MIDI solution would be one where a custom PCB acts as a stand in for the G27 and reports itself to the PC as if it were the G27.
 
The universal wheel adapter for a G27 might be the most feasible option.

It will really just be to replace the G27.
 
The universal wheel adapter for a G27 might be the most feasible option.

It will really just be to replace the G27.
I think someone already figured out how to adapt a logitech wheel to an arcade FFB motor... the question is if they adapted it to YOUR arcade FFB motor.
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,113040.0.html

the driving/racing forum on BYOAC is the best resource on the web for getting arcade driving controls working with a PC http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/board,55.0.html

there's tons of info there, but you'll quickly realize that this stuff is way more complicated than it should be. and nearly every project is a custom 1-off that is difficult to duplicate because there is so much variation in this hardware.
 
The universal wheel adapter for a G27 might be the most feasible option.

It will really just be to replace the G27.
I think someone already figured out how to adapt a logitech wheel to an arcade FFB motor... the question is if they adapted it to YOUR arcade FFB motor.http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,113040.0.html

the driving/racing forum on BYOAC is the best resource on the web for getting arcade driving controls working with a PC http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/board,55.0.html

there's tons of info there, but you'll quickly realize that this stuff is way more complicated than it should be. and nearly every project is a custom 1-off that is difficult to duplicate because there is so much variation in this hardware.
I'm not trying to come across as elitist, but I barely have the time to participate in this forum. :)

I didn't look, but I would be surprised if anyone there has interfaced with Sega MIDI (again not trying to come across as elitist and say that I'm better because of my accomplishments with this protocol).

I may be under the wrong impression, but I think Sega MIDI and RS422 are among some of the best FFB systems out there, and common enough if you're into Sega driving cabs. A solution that adapts either (both?) of these to a PC (as a G27?) would be relatively useful to a decent number of people. I encourage anyone else to take the protocol info I have shared on this forum and make it happen.

Edit: for what it's worth, I would discourage attempts to convert a cab from a Sega FBB to a direct-drive FFB. You'll ruin your cab and end up with an inferior setup that will not work with the Sega games. The ideal setup uses what's in the Sega cab as-is and interfaces directly with it.
 
I didn't look, but I would be surprised if anyone there has interfaced with Sega MIDI (again not trying to come across as elitist and say that I'm better because of my accomplishments with this protocol).
you're not coming across as elitist you're just misunderstanding what I'm proposing and what the person in that link did... ;)

no one is interfacing with the midi protocol. they're interfacing much further down stream. in that link the only thing they're using of the original sega electronics is the motor... they then have an industrial off-the-shelf motor control module and then interface the logitech wheel with that.

Sega had some setups with 2 PCB that made up the FFB system. one was just a servo controller and the other was the logic board that handled the midi protocol. what I'm suggesting is that you may be able to use just the servo controller and interface THAT with the logitech wheel, completely bypassing the whole midi controller/FFB logic stuff. (probably cheaper than sourcing an industrial servo controller and much more compact).

the midi board is completely unnecessary if you're trying to "pad hack" your way into console support with a logitech wheel.

I agree the Sega MIDI/RS422 FFB setups are really well designed, but they're not really compatible with PCs/consoles as much of what those boards do is handled in the software
 
That isn't a Sega FFB in the BYOAC thread as far as I'm seeing. It's just the direct drive DC motor setup where you change DC polarity to reverse directions.

I'm curious how available the controller boards are for these Sega motors. They're not DC motors, so will require at least some dedicated hardware, like the board you're referring to. Either of the MIDI or RS422 boards are prevalent enough that getting into driving them with a cheap Arduino is not out of the question. That's basically what I've done so far. It would be feasible to do a similar setup to the BYOAC one where the Logitec wheel is hacked to generate a move left/move right signal that goes to the Arduino that communicates in the MIDI protocol to the FFB.
 
if you, or anyone else does decide to tackle this I think it'd be important to target whatever hardware is the most widely/cheapest available.
 
Having read that BYOAC thread I'm inclined to try it with my cab, but I don't think it has FFB - I'd have to confirm that

But I'm thinking of setting it up with a U-HID to see how it goes

Looks like it's a 270 degree wheel and Super Chase is listed as one of the games plays in MAME on original hardware - I wonder if the U-HID will play nice, would be even more awesome if it could drive the lights and fully emulate the original game
 
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That isn't a Sega FFB in the BYOAC thread as far as I'm seeing. It's just the direct drive DC motor setup where you change DC polarity to reverse directions.

I'm curious how available the controller boards are for these Sega motors. They're not DC motors, so will require at least some dedicated hardware, like the board you're referring to. Either of the MIDI or RS422 boards are prevalent enough that getting into driving them with a cheap Arduino is not out of the question. That's basically what I've done so far. It would be feasible to do a similar setup to the BYOAC one where the Logitec wheel is hacked to generate a move left/move right signal that goes to the Arduino that communicates in the MIDI protocol to the FFB.
The motor used in BYOAC is basically the HAPP wheel: https://na.suzohapp.com/products/driving_controls/50-0102-08
I don't know too much about that one either but I'm more familiar with your MEGA JVS project and I got to thinking that Arduino and your board would definitely be able to adapt the G27 controls using profiling. I was able to get the min/max values from the G27 and save those on the profile. Like you all said, this will either be a universal attempt or a specific setup.

Right now, I'm just getting some research together but hopefully there will be enough data to actually get something set up.

:)

For reference for anyone else, I was using the GIMX adapter at one point to play but that was before I got my cab.
https://gimx.fr/wiki/index.php?title=DIY_USB_adapter#Using_the_Arduino_Builder_tool
 
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