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MiSTer FPGA

So what's the deal with the controls on these Mister setups? I see people plugging in USB controls or talking about JPAC (which is a USB keyboard emulator).

are there any options to wire controls directly to the GPIO so they're not passing through some kind of serial interface?
 
twistedsymphony said:
So what's the deal with the controls on these Mister setups? I see people plugging in USB controls or talking about JPAC (which is a USB keyboard emulator).

are there any options to wire controls directly to the GPIO so they're not passing through some kind of serial interface?
Click to expand...
There’s a lot of actors in the MiSTer Dev community, so there may be more options than I’m aware of. But AFAIK:

USB is the official control input standard in MiSTer. Efforts are underway to reliably lower the USB polling down to a consistent 1ms.

There are alternative options that talk directly to the cores, but you have to run forked cores to use them:

1) LLAPI through the Blissbox (a device that lets you use OG controllers through either USB or LLAPI), BliSTer, or LLOAD.
2) Antonio Villena’s IO board. It’s USB but he claims it’s “lag-free”. His forked cores also make you use his customized RAM module.
3) Furrtek’s LLCoolJoy which connects OG controllers directly to the GPIO pins. Unfortunately the LLCoolJoy has been in the works for a long time and has yet to be released.

The MiSTer project head and core maintainer (Sorelig) won’t adopt any non-open source, proprietary standard, so the LLCoolJoy is the only one of the three USB alternatives that may one day be supported by the official cores.
 
Cloggerdude said:
Original analog video without I/O board? Possible!

Any thoughts on this? It may have been discussed here already, but it seems like a viable/better option? I'm actually hoping someone here can tell me the potential downsides for my use case (candy cab). I don't mind buying the IO Board if that's the better option, but that doesn't seem to necessarily be the case?
Click to expand...
I'm trying to use the direct_video without success :( I use a rankie hdmi to vga adapter featuring the AG6200 IC that supposedly works:

rankie-hdmi2vga.jpg


I made a vga to scart cable following this diagram and I set these options in MiSTer.ini:

Code: 
[MiSTer]
direct_video=1
composite_sync=1
The core that runs when booting is Menu. I tried in two tvs pretty compatible with analog signals.

I got the info from this post.
 
Last edited:
rsignal said:
I'm trying to use the direct_video without success :( I use a rankie hdmi to vga adapter featuring the AG6200 IC that supposedly works:

I made a vga to scart cable following this diagram and I set these options in MiSTer.ini:

Code: 
[MiSTer]
direct_video=1
composite_sync=1
The core that runs when booting is Menu. I tried in two tvs pretty compatible with analog signals.

I got the info from this post.
Click to expand...
That's kind of what I was afraid of, after reading through that entire post. While it could potentially work well, it seems like a lot of people are having issues actually getting it working. I'll probably just go with an I/O Board, at least until a formal standard is developed for how to use Direct Video.
 
I have LLOAD, which is a direct controller interface from Brazil. There's SNAC, which is also a direct controller interface, and ElectronAsh has LL Cool Joy in the works that would be an entire add-on board just for direct native controller inputs.

There is also the unofficial Blissbox direct controller interface, and Villena's. So, you have a lot of direct controller options.

USB polls at 1ms though, so with a 1ms polling controller like the M30 (2.4GHz version, wired) or many others, you are on the verge of a direct controller mode without using any add-ons.
 
SmokeMonster said:
I have LLOAD, which is a direct controller interface from Brazil. There's SNAC, which is also a direct controller interface, and ElectronAsh has LL Cool Joy in the works that would be an entire add-on board just for direct native controller inputs.

There is also the unofficial Blissbox direct controller interface, and Villena's. So, you have a lot of direct controller options.
Click to expand...
So looking at those LLOAD uses i2c which is serial based, SNAC is also serial based (that's the the S in SNAC stands for).

I think you're missing what I'm asking for... I'm essentially asking if there is any option to allow machine direct inputs via the GPIO... in other words, hooking up arcade controls WITHOUT the use of an interface PCB.

I'm not worried about lag, I'm worried about machine accuracy.
 
twistedsymphony said:
I think you're missing what I'm asking for... I'm essentially asking if there is any option to allow machine direct inputs via the GPIO... in other words, hooking up arcade controls WITHOUT the use of an interface PCB.
Click to expand...
I don't think it has enough GPIO pins exposed via headers for actual jamma inputs without sacrificing SDRAM and friends. Inputs to the core will be 'clocked in' to a clock regardless if it's from a GPIO pin or an external interface. Also, without protection buffers, I would not interface an FPGA directly external switches like you would see in a cab/supergun environment.
 
twistedsymphony said:
that seems a shame to spend all that effort on trying to build cycle perfect cores and then put them behind a USB interface
Click to expand...
Yea I was thinking the same thing... And like I've said from the get-go, even if these cores are clock speed accurate the experience is still no better than emulation due to (other variables) things like this.

I've said many times that I believe FPGA has an important role to play in our hobby, but guys its just not really ready for prime time yet.
The next version (lets call it Mister 2) maybe, but not this one (aka waste of money/don't bother not ready yet/give it another 10 years).
 
What gets to me about the MiSTer is that after all the parts are put together, the complete system is not a cheap solution..when I purchased my D10 from amazon, I paid $130..now, it seems to cost $170??..the I/O to have analog inputs, it’s worth the price but the rest do not..look at the price for the case, the Blister or USB hub, memory and the rest of the case add ons... maybe in the future analogue or someone can build an open source ready to go System and the current cores can be imported..
 
The DE10-nano is out of stock from Terasic on Amazon, so other sellers are just ripping people off there for a week now. You can still get it from Digikey or Mouser for $130.

A direct video dongle is $8 and does away with the IO board if you only need analog RGB video. You only want the IO board if you need dual RGB+HDMI (for capture) or direct controller interfaces.

A case isn't necessary, and the $20 32MB RAM card covers 99.99% of MiSTer. The only thing you wouldn't have is 16% of the Neo Geo library (requires 128MB RAM).

I've been using a $4 OTG USB hub since day one.

If you only need HDMI like most people, a complete MiSTer costs $165 total (DE10, 32MB RAM, hub).
 
That’s all good info right there.. and I was not aware of the direct video dongle..does that dongle adds lag? Can it do 240p?
 
They're zero lag, direct video straight from the FPGA, just like the IO. Lightguns work and all that. The dongle is just a DAC that converts the raw digital output to analog with no scaling, etc.

MiSTer can do any analog resolution, including 240p, and digital resolutions up to 1440p 60/50Hz (it can actually do 2560x1600 but only at 46Hz). Just use a cheap Monoprice VGA-to-X cable (BNC, SCART, component, VGA, etc) and either the dongle or an IO, and you can plug into to any CRT TV/PVM/monitor.
 
SNK-NEO-GEO said:
That’s all good info right there.. and I was not aware of the direct video dongle..does that dongle adds lag? Can it do 240p?
Click to expand...
Sorry for unqualified answers as UPS has been hoarding my DE10-Nano for almost a week, my understanding is that it uses the GPIO pins to run video directly, i.e. not even a single line of lag.Only con about it, AFAIK, is that it uses 6 bits pr color and not 8.
 
“6 bits pr color and not 8” is the naked eye able to tell the difference between 6 and 8? The analog I/O does 8 bit correct?
 
SNK-NEO-GEO said:
“6 bits pr color and not 8” is the naked eye able to tell the difference between 6 and 8? The analog I/O does 8 bit correct?
Click to expand...
I'd imagine you'd need to see them side-by-side to actually perceive any difference.
It's still just more compromises, and for a device that "OMG is soooo much better than emulation" is it? I say NO.

I'm glad work is being put into these cores, because it can be expanded upon in the future...
When we actually have the hardware to do this right (you must "upgrade" it to get 128mb of ram, for a device sold in 2020 this is a joke).
 
invzim said:
Sorry for unqualified answers as UPS has been hoarding my DE10-Nano for almost a week, my understanding is that it uses the GPIO pins to run video directly, i.e. not even a single line of lag.Only con about it, AFAIK, is that it uses 6 bits pr color and not 8.
Click to expand...
I actually thought it was opposite. The IO Board does 6bit and Direct does 8bit.

I may be wrong though, because it’s all starting to run together a bit.
 
Well, you can always discuss the shortcomings of the mister hardware, which is really an Intel subsidized development kit with fan-made addons. That is however, IMHO, not the point - it's like discussing Mame on mac vs mame on linux. The point is once you have cycle-accurate 'cores', they can be re-compiled and synthesized to other (future) FPGA platforms that can have a zillion colors, switches directly to GPIO pins etc. As far as what you get for the money, the mister stuff is a steal.
 
invzim said:
The point is once you have cycle-accurate 'cores', they can be re-compiled and synthesized to other (future) FPGA platforms that can have a zillion colors
Click to expand...
Yes I agree 100%, that's why I refuse to label this project as a total waste of time (just a waste for people who actually spent money to play games on this setup).
 
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