Best way of dumping un-dumped game (Ball Boy 2004)

    This site uses cookies. By continuing to browse this site, you are agreeing to our Cookie Policy.

    • Best way of dumping un-dumped game (Ball Boy 2004)

      New

      Hey, new to this forum but one thing I have in my collection is this version of Ball Boy (2004) which apparently isn't dumped, see mamedev.emulab.it/undumped/index.php?title=Ball_Boy

      On that wiki it says "According to Smitdogg: ShouTime has the 2004 version.", which I guess means that this will be dumped soon anyways?

      My question is... should I try to dump this board myself, and if so... what is the easiest way for me to do this. I'm fairly confident with soldering/desoldering and electronics in general, but don't have much experience dumping ROMs.
      If "ShouTime" who seems to dump quite a few games already has this though, maybe it's not worth the effort?

      Did a quick capture (without audio) of the first levels here (didn't really attempt to play it well). No audio since I currently have a pretty awkward jamma capture rig which relies on external audio (such as NeoGeo headphone jack).


      Image of pcb:
    • New

      buffi wrote:

      On that wiki it says "According to Smitdogg: ShouTime has the 2004 version.", which I guess means that this will be dumped soon anyways?
      There are a number of things owned that for one reason or another can't or won't be dumped. Better to not assume someone else can/will and get it done yourself! :)
      On the hunt for: Dinoking, Mushiking, Love & Berry, Egret 29, Grand Am Q25, Capcom New Concept 2, and Naomi guncabs.
    • New

      It looks like a reskinned Snow Bros, that's pretty cool!

      To dump it for MAME, you would need to desolder all the EPROMs on board (the through hole chips with the emoji stickers, not including the square FPGA) and submit to the dumping union.

      If Shou already has it that's good, but he also has an enormous amount of stuff to go through and dump. So if you are able to do it without damaging anything then it's your choice whether to go ahead. You may also have a different revision.

      Given everything on your board is soldered, it's not going to be easy.

      Also, nice MVS collection!
    • New

      I see an AT89C51 on there, its probably locked and would need decapping or something. Though the board looks like a bootleg of something anyway, maybe you luck out and it’s not been locked. Anyway despite everything else being EPROMs (quick look anyway, maybe missed a GAL or PAL) I wouldn’t attempt this on my own, I’d send it to someone on the dumping union.

      Thanks for considering dumping it!
      multis: cps* ttx2 gnet f3 mvs sega st-v/16b/24/c2/naomi(netboot) sys2x6 m72
      cabs: sega blast city x2 | taito vewlix c + egret ii
      links: klov/vaps games list | custom fight sticks
      projects: conversions, various repairs
    • New

      rewrite wrote:

      buffi wrote:

      On that wiki it says "According to Smitdogg: ShouTime has the 2004 version.", which I guess means that this will be dumped soon anyways?
      There are a number of things owned that for one reason or another can't or won't be dumped. Better to not assume someone else can/will and get it done yourself! :)
      Yeah, that was my thinking as well.

      xodaraP wrote:

      It looks like a reskinned Snow Bros, that's pretty cool!

      To dump it for MAME, you would need to desolder all the EPROMs on board (the through hole chips with the emoji stickers, not including the square FPGA) and submit to the dumping union.

      If Shou already has it that's good, but he also has an enormous amount of stuff to go through and dump. So if you are able to do it without damaging anything then it's your choice whether to go ahead. You may also have a different revision.

      Given everything on your board is soldered, it's not going to be easy.

      Also, nice MVS collection!
      I could probably get the EPROM loose. I own a cheap-ish hot-air rework station, and have plenty of solder wick and a (somewhat bad) desoldering sucker.

      I could probably just get a cheap EPROM programmer and dump the boards myself, instead of sending the ICs to the dumping union right?

      Thanks regarding the MVS collection! It is a full set of all MVS games :)
    • New

      ekorz wrote:

      I see an AT89C51 on there, its probably locked and would need decapping or something. Though the board looks like a bootleg of something anyway, maybe you luck out and it’s not been locked. Anyway despite everything else being EPROMs (quick look anyway, maybe missed a GAL or PAL) I wouldn’t attempt this on my own, I’d send it to someone on the dumping union.

      Thanks for considering dumping it!
      The existing ballboy.zip rom only seems to have three files. 27c010.ur3, 27c010.ur4, 27c160.un8
      EDIT: Never mind, found some other ballboy.zip which also has 27c040.ua5, 27c040.us5, 27c160.un7

      Does that seem to indicate that this board is less similar than I expected (or is that AT89C51 maybe not important to dump?).

      I'm fine with sending it to the dumping union if that's the right thing to do, but if they (I guess ShouTime is a member?) has one, then I guess it doesn't make much sense?
    • New

      buffi wrote:

      if they (I guess ShouTime is a member?) has one, then I guess it doesn't make much sense?
      Not to try and speak for him, but I know that in some instances he's not able to dump them.

      Like the story that has gone around with SegaSonic Bros (for whatever truth is in it, I've no idea) was something like there are only a handful of PCBs in existence, Sega knew he owned one of them and had an agreement with him that it would not be dumped. Eventually someone else snagged one and dumped it (I believe it was The Guru?).

      Any which way, definitely get in contact with someone. You could be totally right and they're all set with another PCB.

      And I don't know that I'd recommend using a hot air station to remove eproms.
      On the hunt for: Dinoking, Mushiking, Love & Berry, Egret 29, Grand Am Q25, Capcom New Concept 2, and Naomi guncabs.
    • New

      rewrite wrote:

      buffi wrote:

      if they (I guess ShouTime is a member?) has one, then I guess it doesn't make much sense?
      Not to try and speak for him, but I know that in some instances he's not able to dump them.
      Like the story that has gone around with SegaSonic Bros (for whatever truth is in it, I've no idea) was something like there are only a handful of PCBs in existence, Sega knew he owned one of them and had an agreement with him that it would not be dumped. Eventually someone else snagged one and dumped it (I believe it was The Guru?).

      Any which way, definitely get in contact with someone. You could be totally right and they're all set with another PCB.

      And I don't know that I'd recommend using a hot air station to remove eproms.
      I'd be happy to get in contact with someone to help me out in getting it dumped I guess.

      Regarding hot air station, my idea of desoldering these DIP IC's would be to:
      - First heat up each pin with soldering iron and get as much of the existing solder off with my desoldering sucker.
      - Then try to heat up the underside of the IC with the hot air station, while applying pressure with a plier or something upwards, to get the IC out of the holes.

      Maybe that is a real dumb idea :|
      I can't say that I have much experience desoldering DIP parts, but for SMD parts, the hot air station works well for removal.
    • New

      I've received so many boards where someone worked on it with hot air, where the PCB's bubbled and labels are burnt, so I'm going to recommend against hot air. Some people even screw this up with SMT parts, but I had to repair a friend's megadrive that he recapped using a heat gun, and now I'm working on a completely bodged Dogyuun which received a hot air transplant. I wouldn't do it for DIP, if only beacuse it's hard to permeate both sides of the board with heat applied to one side.

      The ideal situation would be a proper desoldering gun, like a Hakko FR301 or similar. Failing that, I'd go for an alloy-based solution to lower the melting point, like Chipquik, to make hand-desoldering easier.

      Solder braid helps for cleanup, but beware damage to the annular rings when putting pressure on the board, especially for jank cheap boards like this one. Unless all other options are exhausted, I wouldn't put this one on the map as a good choice for removing a DIP from a double-sided board and/or a board with plated through holes.

      If you are comfortable mailing it, I or a number of others local to me would be up for desoldering and dumping the ROMs using the right tools.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Hatsune Mike ().

    • New

      buffi wrote:

      The existing ballboy.zip rom only seems to have three files. 27c010.ur3, 27c010.ur4, 27c160.un8EDIT: Never mind, found some other ballboy.zip which also has 27c040.ua5, 27c040.us5, 27c160.un7

      Does that seem to indicate that this board is less similar than I expected (or is that AT89C51 maybe not important to dump?).

      I'm fine with sending it to the dumping union if that's the right thing to do, but if they (I guess ShouTime is a member?) has one, then I guess it doesn't make much sense?
      I hadn’t looked it up in mame. Bootlegs are tricky sometimes because you won’t know how something was implemented. But if yours is a revision of a bootleg then maybe the mame driver already includes the instructions on the at98c51. Might just need the EPROMs.

      I’ll let a DU member chime in
      multis: cps* ttx2 gnet f3 mvs sega st-v/16b/24/c2/naomi(netboot) sys2x6 m72
      cabs: sega blast city x2 | taito vewlix c + egret ii
      links: klov/vaps games list | custom fight sticks
      projects: conversions, various repairs
    • New

      rewrite wrote:

      buffi wrote:

      On that wiki it says "According to Smitdogg: ShouTime has the 2004 version.", which I guess means that this will be dumped soon anyways?
      There are a number of things owned that for one reason or another can't or won't be dumped. Better to not assume someone else can/will and get it done yourself! :)
      There's nothing more satisfying that dumping a board shoutime has listed and won't share.
      He has been hanging out with billy pitt for too long and gotten corrupted as of recent times by the looks of things.

      xodaraP wrote:

      It looks like a reskinned Snow Bros, that's pretty cool!

      To dump it for MAME, you would need to desolder all the EPROMs on board (the through hole chips with the emoji stickers, not including the square FPGA) and submit to the dumping union.

      If Shou already has it that's good, but he also has an enormous amount of stuff to go through and dump. So if you are able to do it without damaging anything then it's your choice whether to go ahead. You may also have a different revision.

      Given everything on your board is soldered, it's not going to be easy.

      Also, nice MVS collection!
      That's basically it, only 5 roms to do- it will take a regular dumper 1-2 hours max to desolder / dump those.

      ekorz wrote:

      I see an AT89C51 on there, its probably locked and would need decapping or something. Though the board looks like a bootleg of something anyway, maybe you luck out and it’s not been locked. Anyway despite everything else being EPROMs (quick look anyway, maybe missed a GAL or PAL) I wouldn’t attempt this on my own, I’d send it to someone on the dumping union.

      Thanks for considering dumping it!
      This MCU is sadly not the type that can be decapped easy
      @frsj8112 is in sweden he may dump the roms if you ask him
      If not there's plenty of other dumpers who will do it for you such as team europe, clawgrip, smitdogg, myself etc
    • New

      Hatsune Mike wrote:

      I've received so many boards where someone worked on it with hot air, where the PCB's bubbled and labels are burnt, so I'm going to recommend against hot air. Some people even screw this up with SMT parts, but I had to repair a friend's megadrive that he recapped using a heat gun, and now I'm working on a completely bodged Dogyuun which received a hot air transplant. I wouldn't do it for DIP, if only beacuse it's hard to permeate both sides of the board with heat applied to one side.

      The ideal situation would be a proper desoldering gun, like a Hakko FR301 or similar. Failing that, I'd go for an alloy-based solution to lower the melting point, like Chipquik, to make hand-desoldering easier.

      Solder braid helps for cleanup, but beware damage to the annular rings when putting pressure on the board, especially for jank cheap boards like this one. Unless all other options are exhausted, I wouldn't put this one on the map as a good choice for removing a DIP from a double-sided board and/or a board with plated through holes.

      If you are comfortable mailing it, I or a number of others local to me would be up for desoldering and dumping the ROMs using the right tools.
      Thanks, this answers my questions very well!
      I DO like excuses to buy tools, and could see myself getting a proper desoldering gun (and a programmer to read the chips)... that said, the smart thing might still be to mail the board if desoldering the chips turns out complicated.

      Hammy wrote:

      rewrite wrote:


      buffi wrote:

      On that wiki it says "According to Smitdogg: ShouTime has the 2004 version.", which I guess means that this will be dumped soon anyways?
      There are a number of things owned that for one reason or another can't or won't be dumped. Better to not assume someone else can/will and get it done yourself! :)
      There's nothing more satisfying that dumping a board shoutime has listed and won't share.He has been hanging out with billy pitt for too long and gotten corrupted as of recent times by the looks of things.

      xodaraP wrote:

      It looks like a reskinned Snow Bros, that's pretty cool!

      To dump it for MAME, you would need to desolder all the EPROMs on board (the through hole chips with the emoji stickers, not including the square FPGA) and submit to the dumping union.

      If Shou already has it that's good, but he also has an enormous amount of stuff to go through and dump. So if you are able to do it without damaging anything then it's your choice whether to go ahead. You may also have a different revision.

      Given everything on your board is soldered, it's not going to be easy.

      Also, nice MVS collection!
      That's basically it, only 5 roms to do- it will take a regular dumper 1-2 hours max to desolder / dump those.

      ekorz wrote:

      I see an AT89C51 on there, its probably locked and would need decapping or something. Though the board looks like a bootleg of something anyway, maybe you luck out and it’s not been locked. Anyway despite everything else being EPROMs (quick look anyway, maybe missed a GAL or PAL) I wouldn’t attempt this on my own, I’d send it to someone on the dumping union.

      Thanks for considering dumping it!
      This MCU is sadly not the type that can be decapped easy@frsj8112 is in sweden he may dump the roms if you ask him
      If not there's plenty of other dumpers who will do it for you such as team europe, clawgrip, smitdogg, myself etc
      Thanks for the pointers!
      I want to get a more proper Jamma capture setup to get some good video of the board running (with audio) before sending it anywhere or attempting to desolder it myself.

      I think what I'll end up doing is:
      - Capture some proper video of the game running (cause I find that fun)
      - Get some proper desoldering tools, and practice a bit on some shitty through hole circuit board from discarded electronics or something.
      - If I find desoldering the ICs feasible, I'll do it myself and dump the ROMs. Seems like a fun and nice way to learn these things.
      - ... and if that seems to hard (or I lose interest), I'll just reach out to someone to dump the board for me.

      I do have a decent amount of electronics hobbyist experience, but mostly with SMD parts (my workbench looks like this: i.imgur.com/QVg6Ol4.jpg ).
      Could be fun to branch out into some older things...
    • New

      buffi wrote:

      the smart thing might still be to mail the board if desoldering the chips turns out complicated.
      I have to agree that sending this off to someone more experienced is the smart plan. It takes a lot of experience/time with desoldering equipment to do rework without any damage. One lifted trace and you have opened the can of worms to locate and repair the problem.

      Several posts have mentioned 'The Dumping Union', but they have not explained what/who they are. TDU is a group of collectors around the world who provide free and trusted services to desolder/rework pcbs and dump all kinds of chips. Lots of members across Europe who can take care of dumping the pcbs and returning it to you in working order :)

      Ps; make another post about that MVS collection in the background of your photo!
    • New

      brizzo wrote:

      buffi wrote:

      the smart thing might still be to mail the board if desoldering the chips turns out complicated.
      I have to agree that sending this off to someone more experienced is the smart plan. It takes a lot of experience/time with desoldering equipment to do rework without any damage. One lifted trace and you have opened the can of worms to locate and repair the problem.
      Several posts have mentioned 'The Dumping Union', but they have not explained what/who they are. TDU is a group of collectors around the world who provide free and trusted services to desolder/rework pcbs and dump all kinds of chips. Lots of members across Europe who can take care of dumping the pcbs and returning it to you in working order :)

      Ps; make another post about that MVS collection in the background of your photo!
      Alright, I guess there's a sufficient amount of people telling me the right thing to do is to just mail this off (once I've captured some more video of it) :)

      I'll get my jamma capture setup worked out, and will reach out to some people (I see that Hammy had some pointers above) in a few weeks or so, to try to send this off.

      ... regarding the MVS collections, where would such a post even go on this forum :) I'm quite new here.