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Is there a 3rd Strike ROM from 30th Anniversary around? (Fatal bug fixed)

kuze said:
ekorz said:
Sorry, I was just trying to make it 8 more pages. Tbh I play more Jojo. I’ll step aside.. ;)
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Wasn't directing that at you, just those that won't use the patch anyways but feel they have to post or those throwing words like deceptive around.
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Since I think I'm the only one who said it, I'll bite. It's not "throwing around" the word deception. It's deception by definition.

Deception is to cause (someone) to believe something that is not true.

Not marking it let's people believe they're playing 100% original version A.

That is something that is not true.

And choosing to not mark it is causing them to believe that.


If you don't agree with me, that's fine. But deceptive is 100% accurate in this situation.
 
I don't care what you guys do. After I run my event in a couple weeks, I'm gonna update the boards to the new version and have people test. I plan on being silent to my players about the fix for a set time period, to see if they notice anything different, then eventually let them know what's going on. Don't want a placebo effect clouding their judgement.

I think its neat regardless
 
rewrite said:
kuze said:
ekorz said:
Sorry, I was just trying to make it 8 more pages. Tbh I play more Jojo. I’ll step aside.. ;)
Click to expand...
Wasn't directing that at you, just those that won't use the patch anyways but feel they have to post or those throwing words like deceptive around.
Click to expand...
Since I think I'm the only one who said it, I'll bite. It's not "throwing around" the word deception. It's deception by definition.
Deception is to cause (someone) to believe something that is not true.

Not marking it let's people believe they're playing 100% original version A.

That is something that is not true.

And choosing to not mark it is causing them to believe that.


If you don't agree with me, that's fine. But deceptive is 100% accurate in this situation.
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I'll respect whatever decision Darksoft makes, I'm just grateful that there's a community of people that can take an idea like this and solve and implement it with such speed. Don't want to take that for granted, or get lost in bickering about things. I understand both sides, I feel like there are reasonable points from many people. I'm just focused on being able to play, that's my personal stake.

No need for drama, just a discussion with a bunch of like minded people.
 
For me the ver c or name doesn't matter in the slightest. It's more about being able to recognize what version am I playing, as a player in a tournament or just practicing at home. Also as a consumer I want to be able to know what am I getting without having to dump roms or rip a CD. Sometimes that's not possible, but in this case we can do it that way. And as others have said it's not a huge deal in this circumstance... but we need to set precedent. 3rd Strike is a hugely competitive game (relative to other fighting games) so people will witness and be affected by its path. continuously stating "it's a 1 byte change" doesn't make it more or less of a modified version. a 1 bit change is a modified version imo. (any bit changed actually requires multiple bits changed because there's internal checksums on the CPS3 cds).
 
This whole 1-byte fix discussion reminds me of what happened with Robotron. Earlier versions of Robotron had a bug that if you shot a certain enemy in the corner of the screen, the game would trigger a reset. This made for doing high score runs very nerve racking, and you had to adjust your play because of it.
A solution to the bug was found by a non-Williams employee, Sean Riddle. Riddle then presented this find to Williams, which was given a blessing and was made available as a new romset. Now that romset is tournament and high score accepted, and is considered an official version.

Now, with Williams giving the go-ahead, does it make it official? Hell yes it does.

Just thought I'd mention this story, because it seems like a common thing for the arcade community.

Citations:
http://www.robotron2084guidebook.com/technical/christiangingras/

http://www.robotron2084guidebook.com/technical/christiangingras/patch/
 
I think there needs to be a distinguishing factor. Then let the people running the tournaments decide what version they will run.

Ok. It's JUST one byte. But now it is different. Minor or not. In my opinion just changing it and acting like it is the original is both a HORRIBLE idea and messy. Messy because then you will have multiple ISOs floating around claiming to be original A version for DS SuperBIOS. And no I don't want to fuck around with always checking the CRCs to see what matches what. Screw that.

Horrible idea why? Let's give a potential scenario. Let's say the tourney peeps flat out say that this version will NOT be acceptable in tourneys. But wait, there are stealth versions floating around that we can't tell by looking at them. What will be do? Easy. You ban ALL DARKSOFT setups from being used in tournament play. Huge step backwards because someone decided to "just change it and let it be". Sure a stealth version can be made easily by someone but tbh honest the people that wanted a stealth version wanted their setup to be as close to original as possible and probably won't be running this anyways.

The version that comes from this site should be distinguishable. If you don't want to change the date code then fine, add the text APC to the boot screen for "Arcade Projects Community" and just let the damn tournament organizers decide which version they will use.

If you don't play in tournaments you may find this whole discussion a bit silly. But to those who do compete it is a necessary discussion. Don't shit on it just because you don't play competitively.
 
at the end of the day, I personally love everything you guys do.

@Mitsurugi-w definitely raises very valid points. I'd rather we play safe and put something to distinguish. Whether it's something minor or something that stands out like a sore thumb? I have no idea. But as long as there's a way to tell, I'm ok with that
 
Overview:

---

Scenario A: Released with no other modifications, appears to be version A.

+'s:
The bug is finally fixed!
No placebo effect
Japanese operators can use without problem

-'s:
"Deception"
Can't immediately tell if it's the patched version

---

Scenario B: Released with a marker somewhere

+'s:
The bug is finally fixed!
Moral high ground
People know if they are playing the patched version or not

-'s:
Japanese operators get shafted, but don't worry, we have the high moral ground
Misinformed players blame any corner case of the game to be because "we're playing this bootleg" (placebo)

---

Now, let's keep in mind there has already been releases of darksoft 3s (and other CPS3 games, big thankyou btw) without any indication they are modified.

Solution?
It's been a while since I've used my CPS3 (currently on a STV rampage...) but couldn't this be in the service menu somewhere? Hit service, BAM could tell instantly it's version A+ or whatever it's going to be called (doesn't really matter). Unless I'm missing something (possible), it sidesteps the issues of Japanese operators getting shafted and "deception".
 
Scenario C:

Release a clearly marked DS version, leaving the ability for someone to remove said "splash screen"

+'s all the stuff we talked about, plus the Japanese can do what they want.
-'s potential for someone to be fooled (buy others, but not by A-P).
 
Just to play devil's advocate here;

0x0A to 0x0B is only a single bit changed, not even a byte (00001010 -> 00001011)

:evil: :evil: :evil:

:whistling:
 
Again though, there's the checksum byte, which won't necessarily have every bit changed either... but will be changed by one or more bits. So we're up to somewhere between 2 and 9 bits altered.
 
Just practically speaking, it would be nice to have some way to verify/check that this version is actually installed. Splash screen, in a menu, whatever. Be good to know for various reasons, makes sense. I vote for whatever's easiest, because I don't want Darksoft to have to stress about spending time on it.

Other than that, it's just not an issue honestly. Because when you play in a tournament (or arcade) you don't get to reboot the cab to check the version. You just step up and play. Only the TO or whoever turned the game on earlier has any idea. There's really nothing about 'fooling' players, because they never actually know. Darksoft, battery, No CD, A or B, they never know. It's purely a trust thing. So it's pretty silly to overly worry about it from a player perspective. Just cover the collector/operator.
 
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