Pre-Order For Mini Cute Production

[RealMFnG]

I think the frame can be left out. hursit said he can design a chassis tray. The frame isn't needed to run the chassis/monitor. Not everyone is going to be able to shave down that frame. It is made of some really thick steel. Tossing out the K7000 frame opens up the possibility to using alternative monitors too; helpful for users that can't obain a WG 19K7000.

I'll check it out tomorrow. My buddy says he has to pull his MiniCute monitor out to wash it anyway. Perfect timing.

 

[rewrite]

Not everyone is going to be able to shave down that frame.

I was at no point suggesting this. I saying that Hursit thinks that he can shave it down for the redesigned frame.

I think the frame can be left out. hursit said he can design a chassis tray. The frame isn't needed to run the chassis/monitor.

I've actually seen K7000 cabs ungrounded work fine. But they always scare the heck out of me.

Not to be rude, but if it scares the heck out of you, why on Earth are we considering it as a viable option?

 

[SNK-NEO-GEO]

Everyone gets a free* skirt if you buy a cab now.



*free may be redefined later as a specific dollar amount.

Can it fit a 19" tube?

careful, that might be a guy...trust but verify..I always say..

 

[RealMFnG]

I was at no point suggesting this. I saying that Hursit thinks that he can shave it down for the redesigned frame.

Ahh, k. hursit can probably skip redesigning the frame since you confirmed the tube fits in the OG cab. He can now just design a chassis tray or mount. Easiest path to solution. Less parts. Less design work. Small compromise.

Will check it out tomorrow with the K7000 in tow on an OG miniCute and take lots of pictures.

Not to be rude, but if it scares the heck out of you, why on Earth are we considering it as a viable option?

So let's be literal here:

When I see an ungrounded K7000, the possibility of electrical fault is something I know to be exremely dangerous. I always make an effort to ground the K7000 chassis to earth ground in the cabs that I own. If I have a cab has an ungrounded AC plug, I replace it with a grounded plug. The proposition of playing on a machine that is not properly grouned scares the heck out of me considering the monitor is an extremely powerful capacitor. Lack of a properly grounded monitor, even if it seemingly runs fine without proper grounding isn't wise. Electricity in a shorted scenario will simply flow through the path of least resistance. Without proper grounding, that path can be you, the player. Or some small child that might be button mashing my cab, which is a frequent occurence.

An improperly grounded K7000 or any monitor is user error and fixable and does not strike at the viability of the K7000 as the primary choice for the repro effort.

 

[rewrite]

An improperly grounded K7000 or any monitor is user error and fixable and does not strike at the viability of the K7000 as the primary choice for the repro effort.

That's not what we're talking about though. It's not whether or not the K7000 is viable, it's that running it without a frame is not viable. You specifically said that we should leave out the frame. The frame grounds the tube (or so several people have said already, and given their time in the hobby I'm inclined to believe them). Putting the chassis on a tray somewhere else leaves the tube ungrounded. Which brings us back to my asking why you're suggesting we run it ungrounded.

Plus, a tray somewhere means expecting everyone to lengthen yoke cables and all sorts of other mess like the ability to neck the monitor when rotating that wouldn't be a concern if the chassis were attached to a frame attached to the tube.

 

[RealMFnG]

You don't need a frame to earth ground a K7000. K7000 is earth grounded from tube dog ears->dag strap/wire->neckboard->chassis->earth ground (in most cases). I mentioned that earlier. Earth ground for the K7000 is almost always fastened to the chassis. And when earth ground is fastened to the chassis, it's sually at one of the rear chassis fasteners or at the heat sink fastener for the HOT. At times can be found grounded to the frame. I've seen K7000's grounded about 4:1 to the chassis as opposed to the frame across about thirty different K7000-based cabs to date.

Neckboard wires have slack in them which is zipped up. The yoke wires have slack in them. The degauss connection has slack in it. The anode wire has slack in it. hursit asked me to measure total length on these things. Will just pass the data to him and let him come up with a solution. Maybe the solution calls for a frame, a tray fastened to the cab, a tray fastned to the tube. But what we do know is the orginal frame won't fit in the cab. You yourself confirmed this. So a compromise/solution has to be found. If any of this sounds like bad news to you brutha, sorry. You asked me to take measurements a couple of days ago and that is all I am doing. That and being positive.

 

[Cereth]

Updated. Currently 36/40 on the order list. If we cut orders at 40, those who have paid have priority to stay on the list, followed by those who have submitted a form, fair warning. If enough orders are made, I'll increase it to 80, otherwise people are going to start going on a waitlist. The above doesn't account for any cutes I'm getting for myself.

Side note, I'm only loosely following the discussions here about monitor, I already take more than double a normal full-time job right now, so I'm just trying to keep the orders side managed.

Orders:
animesuperj - Pink x1 (Deposit Paid)
benime - Green x1 (Deposit Paid)
theoddtech - Pink x2
Rg111 - Green x1
hoagtech - Green x2 (Deposit Paid)
Blue_Fox - Pink x1 (Deposit Paid)
statix138 - Pink x1 (Deposit Paid)
chowmarcus - Pink x1 (Deposit Paid)
Artee023 - Pink x1 (Deposit Paid)
Sebastian M. - Green x1
acblunden2 - Green x1 (Deposit Paid)
Bad_Hambre - Pink x1
Lemony Vengeance - Yellow x1 (Deposit Paid)
rewrite - Green x1, Pink x1, Yellow x1
Fletcher - Green x1
Pixel Krisis - Pink x1 (Deposit Paid)
Derick2K - Green x1 (Deposit Paid)
Pega$u$ - Green x1
Kidkaos - Pink x1
Jermz0r - Pink x1
Larry D. - Yellow x1
Joe G. - Pink x1
Terrance S. - Yellow x1
Rick D. - Green x1
Christopher A. - Green x1, Pink x1
Aaron M. - Pink x1
jbrlll - Pink x1 (Deposit Paid)
Michael A. - Pink x1
Dean M. - Pink x1
Patrick S. - Green x1
Julius V. - Yellow x1

 

[twistedsymphony]

It's not whether or not the K7000 is viable, it's that running it without a frame is not viable. You specifically said that we should leave out the frame. The frame grounds the tube (or so several people have said already, and given their time in the hobby I'm inclined to believe them).

if the frame grounds the tube and you want to leave the frame off why not just run a big wire from where the frame normally attaches?

Also when you test fit the tube did you do so with a neck board? I mean that tends to stick out past the end of the tube and usually causes more fitment issues than the frame itself. usually the frame it designed to stick out past the neck board slightly to protect it, so if the frame doesn't fit I'd be worried about neck board clearance.


Also there's a few 19in frames here if wanted to test fit other frame options: http://thearcadeboneyard.com/monitors,frames_and_chassis/monitor_frames.php

 

[nem]

The proposition of playing on a machine that is not properly grouned scares the heck out of me considering the monitor is an extremely powerful capacitor. Lack of a properly grounded monitor, even if it seemingly runs fine without proper grounding isn't wise. Electricity in a shorted scenario will simply flow through the path of least resistance. Without proper grounding, that path can be you, the player. Or some small child that might be button mashing my cab, which is a frequent occurence.

You do know that all Sega cabs have ungrounded monitors? It's not a risk like you think it is.

Anyway, I think it's been confirmed that the K7000 won't inside with the original frame, but just to make sure, here you go:

As for measurements for the tube and a bespoke frame made for it, @hursit needs to grab a 48cm tube locally. I'm not sure how many times I have to repeat this, but these are extremely common television tubes. Tube size is written on the label, like this:



This project can fail spectacularly if he doesn't have the tube in hand.

 

[rewrite]

This project can fail spectacularly if he doesn't have the tube in hand.

Yep, went blue in the face about it in November. But apparently he can't legally obtain one from out of country (no used electronics through customs), and supposedly Turkey has no CRT's (which is confusing because there's clearly one in the cab he has already made that's very likely the right size because at least in the US 19" and 20" is a marketing difference, same size tube).

You do know that all Sega cabs have ungrounded monitors? It's not a risk like you think it is.

My understanding (and I'm happy to be corrected, because I'm trying to understand properly and getting two different stories from people who don't want to be wrong), is that the monitors Sega used (largely Nanao and other monitors that don't need an ISO transformer) are fine to be grounded just as they are in candy cabs (minimally). But monitors that require an ISO transformer (like this era WG's) need to be grounded better/differently/I don't know what term to use here. And that the frame serves this purpose in some cases.

Neckboard wires have slack in them which is zipped up. The yoke wires have slack in them. The degauss connection has slack in it. The anode wire has slack in it.

You're talking a foot in extra wire, probably more. None of these lines are likely to have that much slack. Putting the chassis on the wall or bottom of the cab are very likely to not work out without modifying things. But at least you're measuring and in this instance we'll know. But it still introduces the risk of necking the tube when rotating as some people have found out with E2's that they didn't run the wires right on.

K7000 is earth grounded from tube dog ears->dag strap/wire->neckboard->chassis->earth ground (in most cases). I mentioned that earlier.

And several people have said you're incorrect in this. That's conflicting information.We need to be figure out who's right, not just "I'm right, I've seen it a bunch of times.". Because when both sides do that, someone is going to be wrong, and it's probably going to be the one that gets followed because that's just Murphy's Law.

a tray fastned to the tube.

Is this not, almost exactly what a frame is? It's big metal bit, fastened to tube, that holds the chassis. Which is what we've been talking about, and hursit has been talking about redesigning.

But what we do know is the orginal frame won't fit in the cab. You yourself confirmed this.

I have a dozen times said "I don't know if it would fit with the frame". So I'm a little lost as to where I confirmed anything of the sort. I haven't even had a frame to test with. Which was the /entire point/ of you doing so with that local Cute. It was the entire point of rg111 shipping his. I'm not even trying to be rude, but are you reading what I write? Because saying this just screams "I only read part of what you wrote then decided to reply". Because I have honestly said this over a dozen times now that I have not had a frame to test with.

Here's one of those times that you would have read just last night before making your post:

And as I said then, and as I say now, I have no idea how it'd fit with the frame or anything else involved. But if you're just talking tube in the space that the monitor goes in: it fits.

You seem too comfortable throwing things out there as "should be fine", but an assumption on your part is not good enough for 40 people to lay down $1500 over. I'm a firm believer that it's better to know than it is to assume.

if the frame grounds the tube and you want to leave the frame off why not just run a big wire from where the frame normally attaches?

I'm of the opinion that leaving the frame off is the worst of the possible options.

It'd be best to first find out if the frame will fit or not. Then if not: make a new one. Because as I mentioned before, going frameless means at least one person is going to neck this thing. It happens enough in cabs that are designed with a mech, nevermind loose ones if the wires are improperly routed (and since they're being assembled at home, seems like an easy oversight).

 

[Rg111]

Updated. Currently 36/40 on the order list. If we cut orders at 40, those who have paid have priority to stay on the list, followed by those who have submitted a form, fair warning. If enough orders are made, I'll increase it to 80, otherwise people are going to start going on a waitlist. The above doesn't account for any cutes I'm getting for myself.

I'm not trying to be rude, and you know I have the utmost respect for the work and money you put into orchestrating this. I know this puts you in an awful spot as a middleman, but if we're at a point where there isn't even a fully thought out product to sell, isn't it a bit much to expect people to pay up or miss out?

All the new uncertainties and design changes point to the project going back to the drawing board. You can ultimately decide what to do of course, but I feel this is a good point to reassess where the project is going.

 

[Micromort]

You can remove me from the list... I got hit by the pandemic (and I have 2 cutes already)....

was very much hoping to get bezels and smoked plexi to fit in my stock cabs, but if it can't be guaranteed to fit then I'll have to pass on that too. Sad day! but I'll live to play again later. Still my favorite project going on right now though.

 

[nem]

But monitors that require an ISO transformer (like this era WG's) need to be grounded better/differently/I don't know what term to use here. And that the frame serves this purpose in some cases.

I have only two cabs that have monitors that need isolating transformers, both of them K7000s. I've left both ungrounded. However, this said, they're both wooden cabinets, ie. non-conductive. If they were in metal cabs, I would probably fashion some plastic standoffs or spacers. From what I've understood the whole point of isolation is to provide a different point of neutral, one that's not earth ground. Grounding the frame sounds counter intuitive. But I'm not a tech, I'm just a lowly op.

 

[Epyc]

I will wait on preordering until the monitor situation is worked out. It’s a deal breaker for me if we can’t fit a monitor in there. Thanks to @hursit and everyone trying to work through this.

 

[hursit]

Hello people

@rewrite i think there are some missunderstanding because of the my language barrier. I have too many Arcade monitors and cchasis in here only the problem Turkey's custom doesnt accept USED items. Especially industrials.

im using this system normally.

• 1 AC Line Cord AKA Power Cord
• 2 Fuse & Fuse Holder
• 3 AC Line Filter
• 4 AC Distribution Block
• 5 Switching Power Supply AKA Switcher
• 6 Isolation Transformer

I have used a CRT tv and convert it to Arcade for my first mini cute. But the system like was this picture.

I have just confused about the frame. I understand there are some extra options with the frame, and somebody told, it doesnt work without frame.

So if somebody give me a Graphical Data to show me, the best, optimum and safieer system and explain it on the graphic what cable and Ground goes where ? I think i will fix it and find a way to make it right, and share with you guys.

thanks.

 

[rewrite]

@hursit if you have access to many monitors, I'm a little lost as to why we're having to worry about tube size to begin with.

As @nem said. US 19" is the same as Europe 48cm tube.

Then if you're shipped the frame we should have zero issues figuring out something that works. Even better if you can get hold of a K7000 chassis somehow.

 

[Cereth]

Updated. Currently 36/40 on the order list. If we cut orders at 40, those who have paid have priority to stay on the list, followed by those who have submitted a form, fair warning. If enough orders are made, I'll increase it to 80, otherwise people are going to start going on a waitlist. The above doesn't account for any cutes I'm getting for myself.

I'm not trying to be rude, and you know I have the utmost respect for the work and money you put into orchestrating this. I know this puts you in an awful spot as a middleman, but if we're at a point where there isn't even a fully thought out product to sell, isn't it a bit much to expect people to pay up or miss out?
All the new uncertainties and design changes point to the project going back to the drawing board. You can ultimately decide what to do of course, but I feel this is a good point to reassess where the project is going.

Considering the list is full up to 40, people deserve to know that there's a very real chance they are sold out, and considering that, enough people are still interested. That is the policies I'm holding to, out for everyone to see. As stated before, all deposits are 100% backed. I will refund anyone who decides they don't want in anymore, and I will refund all orders if everything gets cancelled. Everyone who orders is entitled to full disclosure of the current state of the order. Its not unreasonable.

 

[hursit]

You can remove me from the list... I got hit by the pandemic (and I have 2 cutes already)....

was very much hoping to get bezels and smoked plexi to fit in my stock cabs, but if it can't be guaranteed to fit then I'll have to pass on that too. Sad day! but I'll live to play again later. Still my favorite project going on right now though.

I can remove you no problem. Im really sorry about the pandemic. I hope these days will pass quickly.
When i have done the project, people will test the Pleksi on their original Mini Cute and if it fits, i can send it to you

I have checked all the measurements and made the MOLD which i used it for the Big Radius on the Front Door.. My MOLD is for 65 Radius outside. 63,8 Inside. I believe i catch the original radius. Maybe very very small differences

 

[hursit]

@hursit if you have access to many monitors, I'm a little lost as to why we're having to worry about tube size to begin with.

As @nem said. US 19" is the same as Europe 48cm tube.

Then if you're shipped the frame we should have zero issues figuring out something that works. Even better if you can get hold of a K7000 chassis somehow.

Sorry for missunderstanding. We dont have ay problem about of the Tube size. I have already made the bezel to use the schematic and it fits perfectly. And i have draw the Tube with 4 attach point and it fits into the cabinet. I have shared the pictures. The only problem is The NECK PBC touches to the Back Door and i think if i make the Bezel 2cm which was 3cm before, i will fix this problem. And i will put static Rubber on the back door . It looks like the bigger problem is Frame . We have to solve it.
The tube with the frame is 520mm but the Cabinet inside is 47,6 MM Left to Right.

 

[rewrite]

Then it sounds like the plan of sending @Rg111 frame to you should make it easy to solve the remaining issues?

Do I understand right, @hursit?