How to identify if CPS2 has been converted

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    • How to identify if CPS2 has been converted

      Hey guys,

      So there is this vendor where I live who's offering me CPS2 in all sort of state, original, phoenix and conversions. He prices them differently like originals being more expensive than conversions.

      However, if I were to buy games from him, how could I know if I'm getting an original or a conversion? I'm under the impression that all conversions go though the phoenix process? I just don't have enough info, I'm just staring to read on the subject but wanted some input also.

      Thanks!

      Edit: Ok so if I'm reading correctly, all conversions go through the phoenix process, so I should see no battery and possibly wires around the board?
    • vholfx wrote:

      Ok so if I'm reading correctly, all conversions go through the phoenix process, so I should see no battery and possibly wires around the board?
      that was true a few years ago, but is now no longer true.

      Some originals with infinikey or other similar product will have no battery
      Some conversions will have a battery.

      Here is what an original looks like:


      Notice that the Q-Sound and Graphics ROMs are solid plastic with no window, no sticker and have the ROM label printed right no the chip... Those are original MASK ROMs. Also notice that the program ROMs all have official Capcom labels, those are original Program ROMs.


      Here is a Conversion:




      notice how ALL of the ROMs have hand-made stickers. this is clearly a conversion.

      Sometimes people will print nice looking stickers, and some people even have fake stickers that LOOK like the official capcom stickers... the dead give away here is the Q-Sound and Graphics ROMs though.



      This is a "Pheonixed" PCB:



      This is half way between a conversion and an original.

      Notice how it has the original Graphics and Q-Sound ROMs but non-original Program ROMs.
      Before we had the ability to restore keys. this used to be the only way to "fix" a CPS2 with a dead battery. and some people even "Pheonixed" good, working, original PCBs just because they didn't want to worry about the battery.

      The problem is that Pheonixed PCBs are not running original program data. the program ROMs have been modified to get rid of the copy protection. IMO these are not worth as much as a 100% original, but they're arguably worth more than a conversion. You can restore the original program Data, and you can restore the keys in order to make the code original and "un-pheonix" the PCB but most people that want a 100% original board and are willing to pay for a 100% original board want the original program ROMs with the original capcom stickers... So if someone is selling a pheonix PCB it's good to ask them if they still have the original program ROMs that they can send with it.

      -------------

      If you're just looking to PLAY a game that's 100% original, with restored keys there is 0 difference between a conversion and an original. But if you want 100% original just for the sake of it, then you'll want to make sure it has the original roms with original stickers.
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    • Now make a sticky of the post above so that other people that want to be informed know whats up, makes it very clear what to look for.


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      The post was edited 1 time, last by Derick2k ().

    • twistedsymphony wrote:

      The problem is that Pheonixed PCBs are not running original program data. the program ROMs have been modified to get rid of the copy protection.
      Some boards will be burned with the phoenix roms (Noted by "phoenix edition" in the mame rom name) and some will be burned with the decrypted rom set from the CPS2 Rom Decryption Effort guys. The most noticeable difference is that it won't come up with a "CAPCOM PHOENIX EDITION" logo on boot.

      The decrypted roms are 100% the same code as the original roms and are now prefered over the phoenix version. If you're buying phoenixed boards it might be worth asking what version was put on.
    • xtrasmiley wrote:

      Also add in your post @twistedsymphony that if you are going to Pheonix a board, it's OK, AS LONG AS you use fresh EPROMs and keep the originals (with label) safe, in case down the road you sell it or use a key to bring it back.
      Really that should should be the rule anytime you want to change the code on the PCB. I keep the original ROMs even when I'm converting some crappy Quiz game to something else. On rare occasion I might overwrite but never unless I'm 100% sure that the code has been verified as dumped and that neither I nor anyone else would want that original ROM.

      Velyks wrote:

      The decrypted roms are 100% the same code as the original roms
      In some cases yes, but not in every case... there's no guarantee what's been flash to the ROMs other than the sellers word, for all you know they're running a hacked or modded version of the game they found.
      There are plendy of CPS2 ROM hacks in the wild: Encrypted CPS2 ROM Hacks (and How to!) - Dimahoo All Chars, Progear Second Loop, etc.

      There is of course a lot more information related to CPS2 ROMs and pheonixing and keys, and everything, but OPs question was about how to IDENTIFY if the game is original or not, so I provided information on how to do that.
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    • Awesome info thank you!

      I have a board with all Q-Sound roms original (no window) but all graphics ROMS with windows, so this is a conversion I assume? I take not all conversions need the Q-Sound ROMS replaced?

      I can post pictures later when I get home.

      EDIT: Sorry I'm not familiar with the boards and I assumed the graphics would be in the same place, I guess not, I added pictures.
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      The post was edited 1 time, last by vholfx ().

    • I don't know if I would call that a full on conversion, because it still has the daughter board with the original mask roms. It is quite possible that the graphics roms were bad and they simply burned new ones. The program rom stickers don't look like they've been tampered with either.
    • That's a repair job. Program ROMs are original, daughterboard is original, mask ROMs have been entirely replaced with EPROMs that have been concatenated to fit onto 27C322

      Most likely the daughterboard and program ROMs were pulled off a battery damaged board and transplanted but the mask ROMs were toast
    • hello everybody

      I have bought on original SSF2X with battery.
      If one day, the battery is out of order, my game is suicided: OK
      can I desuicide it with infinitykey, put a battery and get out the infinity key;
      - if yes, where can I find a tutorial?
      - if no, i prefer change battery because I don't know its age. I know i must change the battery: is it necessary to turn on the game 1 or 2 hours before change the battery? how many time have I. to switch the 2 batteries?

      cheers
    • Yes you can desuicide with infinikey.

      Once it is desuicided you just put a battery on. Turn the game on to load keys, turn game off and remove the infinikey. I would just leave the infinikey on and never worry about a battery again, but if you must have a battery ....this will work fine.

      You don't have to leave the game on for an hour to change battery. Just turn it on to make sure it still works, then change battery. Batter change should take 5 minutes. Not sure how long the capacitor will hold the charge without a battery but it's at least 15 minutes from my experience, probably longer.
    • mthngn wrote:

      If one day, the battery is out of order, my game is suicided: OK
      can I desuicide it with infinitykey, put a battery and get out the infinity key;
      technically yes but I wouldn't recommend it.

      if you want to revive and go back on battery you should use this method: arcadehacker.blogspot.com/2016…ty-programming-guide.html
      Buy 3D Printed Parts: bit-district.com
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      Games: VAPS | VOOT | UMK3 | RFM | Vewlix | FiF Jr. | KI2 | E29 | Net City | DDR | Flash Beats
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    • twistedsymphony wrote:

      mthngn wrote:

      If one day, the battery is out of order, my game is suicided: OK
      can I desuicide it with infinitykey, put a battery and get out the infinity key;
      technically yes but I wouldn't recommend it.
      if you want to revive and go back on battery you should use this method: arcadehacker.blogspot.com/2016…ty-programming-guide.html
      thank you.

      it is possible to install a battery on desuicided board ONLY with an Arduino? Not with a infinity key?
      best regards

      The post was edited 1 time, last by mthngn ().

    • mthngn wrote:

      it is possible to install a battery on desuicided board ONLY with an Ardino? Not with a infinity key?
      best regards
      yes, that's exactly what that guide tells you.

      that guide was created before infinity-key existed.
      Buy 3D Printed Parts: bit-district.com
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    • twistedsymphony wrote:

      mthngn wrote:

      If one day, the battery is out of order, my game is suicided: OK
      can I desuicide it with infinitykey, put a battery and get out the infinity key;
      technically yes but I wouldn't recommend it.
      if you want to revive and go back on battery you should use this method: arcadehacker.blogspot.com/2016…ty-programming-guide.html
      It is possible, but unless you are using hot air desoldering, there's a chance that you may corrupt the stored key when removing the InfiniKey PCB. I agree with twistedsymphony that for battery installs, arduino setup is best.
      -ud

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