Capcom Q-Sound amp help?

[wuemura]

I don't think so @ZERO_MILES, my technology does something very different, for example, it can locate a instrument/voice/effect/etc underneath other sound and bring that instrument forward and send everything else back or acting as a healing tool like the one used in photoshop to erase voice narration of some source but still bring and back vocals forward.

Here some real time demonstrations, notice how in the first video is possible to recover a violin sound underneath the music:

The technology was developed to be used inside vehicles, considering the drivers position and the off center listening position, the processor can put Slash from Guns and Roses playing guitar in the backseat of your car and Axel singing back at you, kind of in your face experience. Over the years you hear about Stereo Sound Stage but you always experience this stage from a distance, this technology put you in the middle of stage using just two rear speakers of your car without the need to pre-encode anything.

So, I don't know how that could help or benefit an arcade cabinet.

 

[wuemura]

This is extremely interesting, and I think this is the first time I've seen all of this discussed.

So, what happens if you just send a regular stereo audio signal through the Q-Sound amp? I planned to turn one into a stand-alone amplifier for all of my arcade gaming, but maybe that's not ideal if it's going to apply Q-Sound filtering to the source.

Nothing special,without the QSound encoding/matrix/mix it will output as a standard stereo sound.
Maybe you could get some kick out of some albums mixed with QSound like Madonna, Paula Abdul or something of that nature, you should get a more wider spatial stereo sound.

 

[l_oliveira]

The DSP on the CPS1Q and CPS2 actually does Q-SOUND processing but it generates a normal stereo signal which need further analog processing (the mathematical algorithm on the DSP takes the presence of the mixing circuit in consideration I suppose) so the game can control the position of the audio for the listener. There's a very complex API on the games for said effects, early games like "The Punisher" exposes it on the sound test menu. Because of the amount of data that has to be transferred, the communication between the sound and game processors use shared ram instead of simple registers like it was on the original CPS1.

 

[Mitsurugi-w]

Yeah this is very interesting. @wuemura, are you interested in splitting this into it's own thread with all Q-sound info and how it work in theory, etc?

I am almost finished restoring my Capcom Q25 and I can't wait to try Q-sound as it is supposed to, with me sitting in front with no other cabinets throwing sound waves at it. I also repaired the Q-sound amp and verified it is working great now!

 

[wuemura]

The DSP on the CPS1Q and CPS2 actually does Q-SOUND processing but it generates a normal stereo signal which need further analog processing (the mathematical algorithm on the DSP takes the presence of the mixing circuit in consideration I suppose) so the game can control the position of the audio for the listener. There's a very complex API on the games for said effects, early games like "The Punisher" exposes it on the sound test menu. Because of the amount of data that has to be transferred, the communication between the sound and game processors use shared ram instead of simple registers like it was on the original CPS1.

That is what people believe it does, if you take the new superctr and Valley Bell QSound engine and just play the music the QSound effects are incomplete. If you look at the superctr and Valley Bell code, that chip only does panning, volume, echo, delay, etc.[1][2]
From what I understand, QSound is programmed inside the ROM, then QSound information is sent to QSound chip to put everything together and what makes the magic happens is the QSound power amp (don't know if there is a cross-over near the original speakers).

Yeah this is very interesting. @wuemura, are you interested in splitting this into it's own thread with all Q-sound info and how it work in theory, etc?

I am almost finished restoring my Capcom Q25 and I can't wait to try Q-sound as it is supposed to, with me sitting in front with no other cabinets throwing sound waves at it. I also repaired the Q-sound amp and verified it is working great now!

Congratulations!

Yes, if you think is better, can you split the post?
I don't have too much to share in terms of theory on how exactly QSound works that I have already told, but it would be nice to hear from people that could take a better look on the QSound amp boards.

You Don't need to wait, test this files on you smart tv or audio equipment using standard speakers.
http://www.mediafire.com/file/t7k7gxn9zi9mbg7/wave-test.zip

This is what you should experience with QSound:
http://www.mediafire.com/file/3ey3fsutiwv1n3s/Ryu_Stage.zip

Read the instructions here.

 

[ZERO_MILES]

From what I understand, QSound is programmed inside the ROM, then QSound information is sent to QSound chip to put everything together and what makes the magic happens is the QSound power amp (don't know if there is a cross-over near the original speakers).

I recently had the chance to examine a complete QSound kit a friend ordered from Japan, and it had no crossover near the speakers. The kit came with original speakers, and it had a filter cap on them, but that's it.

 

[wuemura]

From what I understand, QSound is programmed inside the ROM, then QSound information is sent to QSound chip to put everything together and what makes the magic happens is the QSound power amp (don't know if there is a cross-over near the original speakers).

I recently had the chance to examine a complete QSound kit a friend ordered from Japan, and it had no crossover near the speakers. The kit came with original speakers, and it had a filter cap on them, but that's it.

Polyester cap?

 

[ZERO_MILES]

From what I understand, QSound is programmed inside the ROM, then QSound information is sent to QSound chip to put everything together and what makes the magic happens is the QSound power amp (don't know if there is a cross-over near the original speakers).

I recently had the chance to examine a complete QSound kit a friend ordered from Japan, and it had no crossover near the speakers. The kit came with original speakers, and it had a filter cap on them, but that's it.

Polyester cap?

Regular electrolytic cap, as far as I recall.

 

[Mukuro_W]

capcom Q sound amp is a powerful amplifier and just the better for cps1/2/3, obviously you can replace with a Naomi stereo amp or with an high end amp or with a low cost chinese one but you will never obtain the same feeling.

 

[rickbonano]

Hi! Can someone tell what is the amp output of the 18v transfo used for the soundamp?

Thanks!

 

[wuemura]

This guy know his stuff!!!

Source: Giant Bomb

Note that music done by video game hardwares sound chip in real time cannot be mixed in QSound without dedicated hardware or software and cpu power to process the sound in real time.

True!

Some Capcom Arcade Machine feature analog DSP Matrix_decoders these work much like Dolby Pro logic Matrix_decoders The left and right Analog sound channels from the Stereo feed from the CPS1 and CPS2 arcade boards are processed through the Add on board where it is separated and the Qsound 3d effect is added based on phase-shifts from the Stereo track before being sent to the speakers. This is the method most commonly used for hardware based Qsound.

That is what the Capcom amplifier does it and only a hand full of people knows about it, not even superctr, Valley Bell or any emu dev's are aware of it. This old datasheet for the MM1326 Mitsui Q Xpander Processors demonstrate the issue I've discussed earlier about speaker alignment, no alignment, no QSound for you.

 

[wasspat]

I’ve discovered this topic (amazing topic) and I can’t wait to hear the true q-sound .
Definitively, I wanna hear this sound on my New Astro with CPS2 board.

I just received the q-sound amp : CPB-001A. I’ve tried with a classic psu 16,5v AC-AC and the led is on but not sound out .

Any advice or tip to choose a good and cheap power supply ?

Thanks

 

[SmokeMonster]

After reading a bit, you're definitely right that it's dangerous to use resistors for dropping voltage with high power sources like PSUs.

I found what may be the perfect option though. Creative INSPIRE speakers took 13.5V AC (5A), and their PSU is cheap on eBay. It's model US-1450. Even though the PSU isn't labeled as AC output, I verified in a few different sources that it is in fact AC (not DC like most PSUs). I got one for $13/shipped. I can't test it out until I move home in a few years though.

I put a bid on one ending in a few days. Will post success/failure whenever it comes in.

Did you ever end up testing yours?

 

[rewrite]

After reading a bit, you're definitely right that it's dangerous to use resistors for dropping voltage with high power sources like PSUs.

I found what may be the perfect option though. Creative INSPIRE speakers took 13.5V AC (5A), and their PSU is cheap on eBay. It's model US-1450. Even though the PSU isn't labeled as AC output, I verified in a few different sources that it is in fact AC (not DC like most PSUs). I got one for $13/shipped. I can't test it out until I move home in a few years though.

I put a bid on one ending in a few days. Will post success/failure whenever it comes in.

Did you ever end up testing yours?

Sure did. Didn't work.

 

[wasspat]

So, if I resume, for now, the only way is with the official psu Kitamura with entry at 100v or 120v only. It’s very difficult to have this setup in cab other than official Capcom cabinet .

 

[wasspat]

Finally, I got a true q-sound setup in my NAC ; it's not the big revolution of sound but it's very cool.

I've test with Progear on cps 2 and what i've noticed :
- the spacialization of the stereo is better, more than left and right you feel the sound top left, bottom right etc. For example you feel the fist tank explosion on the bottom right of the "space".
- the quality of sound of the q-sound amp is also very good, in the past i've test the stereo RCA of the cps2 with a standard stereo amp, the sound was good but not as much. I feel to hear more sounds due to the 3D spacialization (the shoot sound is more separated than the music or other SFX sound so the overall sound very pleasant)
- we feel emcompassed with the sound, not as much as with dolby with the sound in the back. It's a little weird (or maybe I'm too much hyped with the q-sound and it's only a placebo effect) but I feel more include in the sound.

It's maybe expensive to do the setup for the q-sound but it's sooooo cool to life the experience of CPS2 as it was planned, I don't regret this project, now I'm just so curious to try as many CPS2 game as possible .

For information, to make everything works :
- I tried the q-sound amp with two power supply 16 and 17v AC/AC (taken from musical equipment) but it didn't work (no sound out), maybe the amperage.
- I bought the official Capcom power supply on ebay : HERE (also where I buy the q-sound amp : HERE)
- I negociated the price shipped to France : 40,59 € for the power supply and 37,68€ for the amp. The vendor, UDC is very cool and there is some other arcade part to group the shipping .
- The power supply is plugged with 220v wires (blue + white and the green for ground) with a electrical outlet, in France the electricity is 220V so it's logical. With another country in europe maybe you'll need to use the 240v wire (violet instead of blue). For US and JP people I guess the power supply from UDC will not be suitable.

Thats all

 

[ReplicaX]

- The power supply is plugged with 220v wires (blue + white and the green for ground) with a electrical outlet, in France the electricity is 220V so it's logical. With another country in europe maybe you'll need to use the 240v wire (violet instead of blue). For US and JP people I guess the power supply from UDC will not be suitable.


Thats all

For the 18VAC QSound Amp (not the 12VDC Impress Amp):

The CPT-002B Kitamura Kiden transformer is required for US/JP 110/100v.
The CPT-003A Kitamura Kiden transformer is required for countries 220v/240v.

 

[Jdurg]

Very happy to have revisited this thread. Haven't done much work in my cabinets (anxiously awaiting the CPS1 multi), but had a regular amp that I hacked together in my Dynamo HS-5 cab. Just went on E-Bay and found a full CPS2 Big Blue working Q-Sound amp with transformer for less than a hundred bucks including shipping. When it arrives in a few weeks, I'll be able to put that into my multi and try it out. Sweet!

Edit: Okay, turns out no, it does not include the transformer even though the seller included it in the pictures. Apparently as a way to say "you must have this transformer for this thing to even work." I only noticed it wasn't included when I read the fine print. Still, what I paid for the AMP board isn't bad at all. I was able to find the appropriate transformer out in Australia and made the order. Paid a bit more than I would have liked, but now I figure the cost savings from the amp board even this out.

 

[hardyhell]

Finally, I got a true q-sound setup in my NAC ; it's not the big revolution of sound but it's very cool.

I've test with Progear on cps 2 and what i've noticed :
- the spacialization of the stereo is better, more than left and right you feel the sound top left, bottom right etc. For example you feel the fist tank explosion on the bottom right of the "space".
- the quality of sound of the q-sound amp is also very good, in the past i've test the stereo RCA of the cps2 with a standard stereo amp, the sound was good but not as much. I feel to hear more sounds due to the 3D spacialization (the shoot sound is more separated than the music or other SFX sound so the overall sound very pleasant)
- we feel emcompassed with the sound, not as much as with dolby with the sound in the back. It's a little weird (or maybe I'm too much hyped with the q-sound and it's only a placebo effect) but I feel more include in the sound.

It's maybe expensive to do the setup for the q-sound but it's sooooo cool to life the experience of CPS2 as it was planned, I don't regret this project, now I'm just so curious to try as many CPS2 game as possible .

For information, to make everything works :
- I tried the q-sound amp with two power supply 16 and 17v AC/AC (taken from musical equipment) but it didn't work (no sound out), maybe the amperage.
- I bought the official Capcom power supply on ebay : HERE (also where I buy the q-sound amp : HERE)
- I negociated the price shipped to France : 40,59 € for the power supply and 37,68€ for the amp. The vendor, UDC is very cool and there is some other arcade part to group the shipping .
- The power supply is plugged with 220v wires (blue + white and the green for ground) with a electrical outlet, in France the electricity is 220V so it's logical. With another country in europe maybe you'll need to use the 240v wire (violet instead of blue). For US and JP people I guess the power supply from UDC will not be suitable.

Thats all

Thanks for your Information.

some Questions though. the volume Control you can only make in the cps2 System menu or at the Buttons outside of the System now.right?

And how high or low dod you have to put the volume in order to not Damage your Speakers? i suppose the Sound is quite loud? did you notice any humming or Ground loop?

have you tested a cps3 also or if anyone kows… will this work good as well with this Kind of Setup?

thanks

 

[wasspat]

Finally, I got a true q-sound setup in my NAC ; it's not the big revolution of sound but it's very cool.

I've test with Progear on cps 2 and what i've noticed :
- the spacialization of the stereo is better, more than left and right you feel the sound top left, bottom right etc. For example you feel the fist tank explosion on the bottom right of the "space".
- the quality of sound of the q-sound amp is also very good, in the past i've test the stereo RCA of the cps2 with a standard stereo amp, the sound was good but not as much. I feel to hear more sounds due to the 3D spacialization (the shoot sound is more separated than the music or other SFX sound so the overall sound very pleasant)
- we feel emcompassed with the sound, not as much as with dolby with the sound in the back. It's a little weird (or maybe I'm too much hyped with the q-sound and it's only a placebo effect) but I feel more include in the sound.

It's maybe expensive to do the setup for the q-sound but it's sooooo cool to life the experience of CPS2 as it was planned, I don't regret this project, now I'm just so curious to try as many CPS2 game as possible .

For information, to make everything works :
- I tried the q-sound amp with two power supply 16 and 17v AC/AC (taken from musical equipment) but it didn't work (no sound out), maybe the amperage.
- I bought the official Capcom power supply on ebay : HERE (also where I buy the q-sound amp : HERE)
- I negociated the price shipped to France : 40,59 € for the power supply and 37,68€ for the amp. The vendor, UDC is very cool and there is some other arcade part to group the shipping .
- The power supply is plugged with 220v wires (blue + white and the green for ground) with a electrical outlet, in France the electricity is 220V so it's logical. With another country in europe maybe you'll need to use the 240v wire (violet instead of blue). For US and JP people I guess the power supply from UDC will not be suitable.

Thats all

Thanks for your Information.
some Questions though. the volume Control you can only make in the cps2 System menu or at the Buttons outside of the System now.right?

And how high or low dod you have to put the volume in order to not Damage your Speakers? i suppose the Sound is quite loud? did you notice any humming or Ground loop?

have you tested a cps3 also or if anyone kows… will this work good as well with this Kind of Setup?

thanks

1. Indeed, there is no control volume on the amp so the volume is managed only trought the CPS2.
2. I don't think the amp will damaged your speakers if your are "reasonable". The volume on CPS2 is only a knob volume (as per jamma) and not an amp (as per MVS4) so you haven't the effect AMP + AMP = BAD . For information, with a know at half position, I didn't notice any humming and the sound is quite loud.
3. Unfortunately, I haven't CPS3.
I tested my other cps2 board : SF2X and it's pretty cool also. The planes sound is buffed and the localisation of the sound is also better. (my pleasure was to go to test menu and hear the incredibles musics of SF stages)