Mortal Kombat 1 on HAS

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    • Mortal Kombat 1 on HAS

      Hello,

      I'm a complete beginner when it comes to arcade PCBs and superguns, but not to retrogaming in general (I understand concepts like sync, voltage levels, etc. in regards to retrogaming setups). I recently acquired my first supergun, the HAS, back in February.

      I have a lot of questions and confusion when it comes to connecting a Mortal Kombat 1 arcade PCB to a HAS into a CRT or PVM ?(

      Here's my setup for reference-
      Display Spoiler

      HAS Supergun
      +MWP606 power supply
      +8pin mini din to RGB SCART cable
      +(optional) HAS JAMMA extension cable
      +(optional) Sega Saturn controller adapters, undamned USB controller adapters

      32" Sony WEGA Trinitron KV32FS100
      +accepts Component (YPbPr), S-video, composite and RF video
      +8:2 gcompsw switch between consoles and television
      +I use a Shinybow SCART->Component and a RetroTINK SCART->Component converter for the HAS and Dreamcast

      13" Sony Trinitron PVM-1353MD
      +accepts pretty much anything you can throw at it - RGBs, RGBHV, Component, S-Video, Composite, etc.
      +I use Line 1 for Component, running from the second output of the gcomp
      +I use Line 2 for RGBs, which I connect using RGC's SCART to BNC cables and a simple phono adapter for audio

      (All video cables running between equipment are high-quality, shielded cables)


      I recently picked up a working Midway Y-Unit Mortal Kombat 1 PCB and sound board, along with the proper cables to connect it to the sound board and a kick harness. The only thing I'm still missing is a Volume Pot, so I will be leaving the sound board disconnected during any testing until I pick one up.

      What do I need to know before I get started? I've heard that MK1 Y-Unit PCBs have compatibility issues with some displays due to a very low sync rate. I've also heard something about it needing -5v for the audio processing?

      I just want to get a good primer before I connect everything for fear of damaging the board or any of my equipment. (I know SuperG has a disclaimer about not using superguns with the gcomp but I've heard the HAS is safe to use. I don't know if having the signal converted from RGBs to YPbPr will have any negative effects on passing the video signal through properly.) Previously, the arcade PCBs I've connected to my HAS were much simpler- Data East's Avengers and Konami's ALIENS- just plug and play, really- but it seems like the MK1 boards have a lot more factors to consider and potential issues.

      Thanks for any help the community can provide, and I hope you'll forgive me for being a total n00b (saibot) :)
    • MK tends to have a picture that rolls and makes its unplayable on CRT TVs. Your TV may work, as well as your PVM, or they may not. At least you can hook it up to see a picture and test your PCB.

      The HAS provides -5v, so you don't need to worry about that, although I don't think MK1 uses it.

      I also think you can hook up the sound PCB and get audio that maybe adjusted in the menu, but it's been a long time since I booted up MK1, so I'm hazy on this. @jassin000 is a pro on MK1, HAS, and OSSC, so he can probably chime in.

      MK1 is just like all your other JAMMA PCBs, BUT it just might not get a stable picture. You should see something and it will likely just roll on the screen.

      Plug it up as normal, skip the kick harness and sound PCB to test it out. Using your RGBs to YPbPr should make no difference. Also, yes the HAS is good to go with the gcomp.

      Your Shinybow is perfect for what you are using it for on the CRT. I would say, initially make sure the HAS switches for Csync are in the default settings (buffered), because I am not sure what the other settings might do to the gcomp. I would leave the gcomp out to test the PCB in fact. That way you can see if you can get a stable picture in the other two settings on the Csync switch.
    • I thought those boards did need -5v for the sound? At least my Killer Instinct and MK3 boards need it.

      Matt
      Arcade MultiSystems:

      Sega: ST-V (Darksoft), Naomi 2 w/Net Dimm,Capcom CPS2 (Darksoft) , Capcom CPS3 (Darksoft), Neo Geo MV-1B (Darksoft), Sega C2 (Apocalypse), Taito F3 (Darksoft), Neo Geo AES (Darksoft), M72 Multi (Apocalypse), Sega 16B Multi (Apocalypse)
      VAPS Profile arcade-museum.com/members/member_detail.php?member_id=481863
    • I famously don't game on CRTs... But I had been told years ago that MK (and specifically Midway PCBs) do NOT work on a Sony Wega for this (rolling image) reason.
      It seems the video signal generated by these is so off-spec, so wacky that a good amount of consumer TVs will not be able to lock the vertical hold (thus roll).

      PVM should be AOK, but beware consumer grade CRT TVs.

      xtrasmiley wrote:

      I also think you can hook up the sound PCB and get audio that maybe adjusted in the menu
      MK1's sound board is controlled with a external volume pot, MK2's sound board is adjusted via service menu (MK3 has integrated sound adjusted via service menu).

      mathewbeall wrote:

      I thought those boards did need -5v for the sound?
      They DO!
      The game will play just fine without -5v but the sound board won't function.
      As Xtra was saying, HAS supports -5v (its Japanese Candy cabs/PSUs that typically do not).
      Darksoft/Apocalypse: CPS2, CPS3, F3-β, MVS, S16-β
      Marqs: OSSC v1.5/1.6 VGP, OSSC v1.6 Kaico
      invzim: Jammafier v1.6b/1.7c, Tri-Sync Helper, JVSPAC2
      XianXi: JNX Raiden, SC Taito Classic, SC Sega S16/24, Namco S11/12 KHA
      Frank_fjs: JAMMA Extender SE-HAS, Jassifier v1.6
    • mathewbeall wrote:

      I thought those boards did need -5v for the sound? At least my Killer Instinct and MK3 boards need it.

      Matt
      Nope, doesn't look like it. (page 3-2)

      arcade-museum.com/manuals-videogames/M/MortalKombat.pdf

      Also, even if it did, @RGB is awesome and included it on the HAS, free of "negative" charge!

      The post was edited 2 times, last by XtraSmiley ().

    • jassin000 wrote:

      I famously don't game on CRTs... But I had been told years ago that MK (and specifically Midway PCBs) do NOT work on a Sony Wega for this (rolling image) reason.
      It seems the video signal generated by these is so off-spec, so wacky that a good amount of consumer TVs will not be able to lock the vertical hold (thus roll).

      xtrasmiley wrote:

      I also think you can hook up the sound PCB and get audio that maybe adjusted in the menu
      MK1's sound board is controlled with a external volume pot, MK2's sound board is adjusted via service menu (MK3 has integrated sound adjusted via service menu).

      mathewbeall wrote:

      I thought those boards did need -5v for the sound?
      They DO!The game will play just fine without -5v but the sound board won't function.
      LOL, I'd say it's more infamous, but yes, you don't do the CRTs for the reasons mentioned above, but you were very helpful on the sound pot question and I think you're still a pro on all other areas of this!

      Looking at the manual, I think MK1 did not use -5v, maybe they added that requirement for MK2 and beyond.
    • xtrasmiley wrote:

      Looking at the manual, I think MK1 did not use -5v, maybe they added that requirement for MK2 and beyond.
      Almost ALL Midway PCBs need -5v... It was common among American PCBs/companies (which is why you don't often see it supported in JPN).
      Darksoft/Apocalypse: CPS2, CPS3, F3-β, MVS, S16-β
      Marqs: OSSC v1.5/1.6 VGP, OSSC v1.6 Kaico
      invzim: Jammafier v1.6b/1.7c, Tri-Sync Helper, JVSPAC2
      XianXi: JNX Raiden, SC Taito Classic, SC Sega S16/24, Namco S11/12 KHA
      Frank_fjs: JAMMA Extender SE-HAS, Jassifier v1.6
    • Yes it will work with the OSSC, but the problem here is the very low scanrate is unaltered by the OSSC.
      Meaning for it to display properly the LCD/OLED you use must support 50.0~60.0hz.

      Until a few years ago this was unheard of in TV land, gaming PC monitors have been in this space for a while with freesync.
      Again be warned that most LCD displays (esp older ones) will only accept a pure 60.0hz and thus not work with any Midway PCBs.

      IF you have a display that won't accept the scanrate you DO have one more option, adding a iScan DVDO (VP30/VP50/VP50pro only) to the video chain.
      The DVDO can magically adjust the scanrate, however its accomplishing this by using a framebuffer wish also adds about 1.5~2 frames of lag (so it should be avoided if possible).

      I'm using a DVDO here with my LG B6, the newer versions of this display (C9) don't need this and work directly.

      Darksoft/Apocalypse: CPS2, CPS3, F3-β, MVS, S16-β
      Marqs: OSSC v1.5/1.6 VGP, OSSC v1.6 Kaico
      invzim: Jammafier v1.6b/1.7c, Tri-Sync Helper, JVSPAC2
      XianXi: JNX Raiden, SC Taito Classic, SC Sega S16/24, Namco S11/12 KHA
      Frank_fjs: JAMMA Extender SE-HAS, Jassifier v1.6

      The post was edited 1 time, last by jassin000 ().

    • ItsACerealWow wrote:

      Thanks for all the feedback and tips! I did indeed test it on my WEGA and it had a rolling picture, just as described. Tomorrow I'll try hooking it up to the PVM and see if I have better luck. If it rolls there to, do I have any options on a flatpanel display using an OSSC/Framemeister/RetroTink-2X?
      If you wait for the upcoming OSSC Pro, it will solve all your problems on all your monitors.

      If you can't wait, the Framemeister will work as well, but not sure if it's worth spending so much on it when OSSCP is around the corner. If you already have one though, use it!
    • jassin000 wrote:

      Yes it will work with the OSSC, but the problem here is the very low scanrate is unaltered by the OSSC.
      Meaning for it to display properly the LCD/OLED you use must support 50.0~60.0hz.

      Until a few years ago this was unheard of in TV land, gaming PC monitors have been in this space for a while with freesync.
      Again be warned that most LCD displays (esp older ones) will only accept a pure 60.0hz and thus not work with any Midway PCBs.

      IF you have a display that won't accept the scanrate you DO have one more option, adding a iScan DVDO (VP30/VP50/VP50pro only) to the video chain.
      The DVDO can magically adjust the scanrate, however its accomplishing this by using a framebuffer wish also adds about 1.5~2 frames of lag (so it should be avoided if possible).

      I'm using a DVDO here with my LG B6, the newer versions of this display (C9) don't need this and work directly.


      Wow, sweet set up! Those scanlines :thumbup:

      I do indeed have a gaming monitor with freesync as well as a Framemeister, though I'd prefer not to use the latter option due to the lag (same as avoiding the iScan DVDO). I'll toy around with those options this weekend. I will probably pick up an OSSCP when it's released

      I have to ask, where did you get that awesome acrylic case for your Y-Unit?
    • Highflow.nl sells them, I have the Y-Unit and T-Unit.


      I hadn't finished making my vol pot bracket in the above shot, here it is finished...


      Darksoft/Apocalypse: CPS2, CPS3, F3-β, MVS, S16-β
      Marqs: OSSC v1.5/1.6 VGP, OSSC v1.6 Kaico
      invzim: Jammafier v1.6b/1.7c, Tri-Sync Helper, JVSPAC2
      XianXi: JNX Raiden, SC Taito Classic, SC Sega S16/24, Namco S11/12 KHA
      Frank_fjs: JAMMA Extender SE-HAS, Jassifier v1.6
    • Just a quick follow-up to say thank you to everyone here for all your invaluable help! I finally got my case in from Highflow.nl, all the cables I needed from arcade*harnesses on eBay, the potentiometer mounting bracket from Marco Specialties, and I'm just awaiting the JNX Raiden from Jamma Nation X to run the kick harness to the HAS.

      Here's the finished board 8)



      Thanks again- this is my first real interaction with the AP community, and y'all been awesome so far! :thumbsup: