IIRC they're all 10K ohm
- Thread starter biggestsonicfan
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biggestsonicfan
Professional
Ah, thanks!
So my header supplier accidentally keeps sending me the wrong 10-pin headers, so I don't have a completed unit to test yet. But in the mean-time, here are some comparison shots of both boards with the amps on them. I feel like the old board was sloppy as it didn't have capacitor pitches that matched what was on the board and they just were cheap using what they had in stock.
Truth be told, the sound coming out of these things is actually really, really good. I am a bit sad their "mono" resistor does not work, and will just be fixing this by making the cable between the filter board and the adapter a summing cable. A little more work and money, but I don't want to skimp on quality here. Absolutely no reason to.
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biggestsonicfan
Professional
Just exchanged a few emails with Ken over at irepairsega.
What he had to say was quite alarming and makes me want to abandon this project:
What he had to say was quite alarming and makes me want to abandon this project:
Also in regards to telling Ken I use a 5v 10a in my setup outside my cabinet:
I tend to agree and have recommended to most people in the past that they use a dedicated PSU with Model hardware when running a JAMMA adatper.
I wasn't aware you were trying to POWER the hardware through this adapter as well.
Most USA Model 2 cabs shipped with a Peter Chou PSU which delivers 15A on the 5V rail.
the SUN PSU that powers most Model 3 cabs supplies 12A on the 3.3V rail and 7A on the 5V rail
"10amps on the 5v is about half of what it really needs to run stable" is a bit hyperbolic to me considering I can't think of a single Sega Model System cab rated at 20A on the 5V rail from the factory PSU. But I do agree that 10A is too low.
With that said the JAMMA edge really isn't designed for that kind of current draw.
Assuming 15A you'd want the equivalent of a single 14awg wire: http://www.wireityourself.com/wire_sizes.html#.X5xfYu17lEY
that means at minimum you'd need 4x 20awg wires for 5V: https://www.wirebarn.com/Combined-Wire-Gauge-Calculator_ep_42.html
or 6x 22awg wires to the filter board (since that's what JST NH supports)
however If you look at the model 2 filter board then it has 15x 22awg wires for 5V, even assuming that only 12 of them are populated that works out to an equivalent awg of a single 11awg wire
Consider a JAMMA connector has 4x pads for 5V based that would be 1x 17awg wire per pad but then you're limited on the width of the contact on the JAMMA connector you could figure out the equivalent awg: https://pcbdesignsdl.blogspot.com/1969/12/pcb-trace-width-to-awg.html
I think if you figure that last bit out you'll have your answer if it's truly safe to run Model 2 through JAMMA or not.
I wasn't aware you were trying to POWER the hardware through this adapter as well.
Most USA Model 2 cabs shipped with a Peter Chou PSU which delivers 15A on the 5V rail.
the SUN PSU that powers most Model 3 cabs supplies 12A on the 3.3V rail and 7A on the 5V rail
"10amps on the 5v is about half of what it really needs to run stable" is a bit hyperbolic to me considering I can't think of a single Sega Model System cab rated at 20A on the 5V rail from the factory PSU. But I do agree that 10A is too low.
With that said the JAMMA edge really isn't designed for that kind of current draw.
Assuming 15A you'd want the equivalent of a single 14awg wire: http://www.wireityourself.com/wire_sizes.html#.X5xfYu17lEY
that means at minimum you'd need 4x 20awg wires for 5V: https://www.wirebarn.com/Combined-Wire-Gauge-Calculator_ep_42.html
or 6x 22awg wires to the filter board (since that's what JST NH supports)
however If you look at the model 2 filter board then it has 15x 22awg wires for 5V, even assuming that only 12 of them are populated that works out to an equivalent awg of a single 11awg wire
Consider a JAMMA connector has 4x pads for 5V based that would be 1x 17awg wire per pad but then you're limited on the width of the contact on the JAMMA connector you could figure out the equivalent awg: https://pcbdesignsdl.blogspot.com/1969/12/pcb-trace-width-to-awg.html
I think if you figure that last bit out you'll have your answer if it's truly safe to run Model 2 through JAMMA or not.
kazuo
Grand Master
IMO, using an external PSU shouldn't be a deal breaker. Most of the "good" adapters I've seen, including the Sanwa ones, require one, and Ken's definitely an expert on these boards, so I'd say it's the right way to go. Some type of interface board like the AWSD interface may help to simplify things. I'd just use a Mean Well, since they're plentiful and known to provide excellent performance.
biggestsonicfan
Professional
Well, I've been thinking, and why don't I just make a board that handles the RGB, Input/Outputs, and an amplifier for the JAMMA portion and then just make universal adapter cables for power?
Like maybe AMP UP connectors that I can distribute to the power board and then just build a connector to match the PSU of the client that connects to the end of the AMP UP connector?
Like maybe AMP UP connectors that I can distribute to the power board and then just build a connector to match the PSU of the client that connects to the end of the AMP UP connector?
Would a Mini Fit Jr connector be possible?
Mini Fit Jr connectors and crimp pins are relatively easy to find and people can repurpose Lindbergh looms or use an ATX PSU. I tend to avoid ATX PSU's as I've read/been told by UK experts such as Andy Geezer and Craig Giz10p that adjustable voltage is the way to go.
My friend experienced issues when using a lesser PSU on Model 3, it burnt and damaged the power connector and socket on the PSU. He was very lucky to have not caused damage to his stack.
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kazuo
Grand Master
Is that the Sanwa PSU? Cause that looks like a Sanwa PSU that comes with the Model 3 JAMMA kits (like the one I have). I don't think it burned out from being unable to provide enough juice, looks like something else happened there...
what "something else" are you thinking? because that looks like a classic over-draw burn to me.
biggestsonicfan
Professional
That assumes I pick the right Mini Fit Jr connectors
I'm not sure if that was a Sanwa PSU tbh. It's hard to say exactly what caused it to burn out like that, but I side with what Twistedsymphony says about it being related to current over-draw.
The Model 3 SUN PSU's I use have 12a on the 5v rail, Nipron Lindy PSU's state 10a @ max -12a @ Peak and SUN Lindy PSU's state 20a. I'm not sure what the standard Blast City PSU or SUN NVS-4000 Astro City PSU's are rated at offhand. There's also the Blast PSU with Lindy support and the NVS-4000-01 what also has Lindy support.
I respect Ken's advice, if there was an ATX solution which had adjustable pots that's the route I'd personally go. I think there was a OCZ PSU back in the day with adjustable pots, but that PSU was never really top tier and it's getting on a bit now.
Is there a viable ATX solution that has adjustable pots or a mod that allows it?
The Model 3 SUN PSU's I use have 12a on the 5v rail, Nipron Lindy PSU's state 10a @ max -12a @ Peak and SUN Lindy PSU's state 20a. I'm not sure what the standard Blast City PSU or SUN NVS-4000 Astro City PSU's are rated at offhand. There's also the Blast PSU with Lindy support and the NVS-4000-01 what also has Lindy support.
I respect Ken's advice, if there was an ATX solution which had adjustable pots that's the route I'd personally go. I think there was a OCZ PSU back in the day with adjustable pots, but that PSU was never really top tier and it's getting on a bit now.
Is there a viable ATX solution that has adjustable pots or a mod that allows it?
The Sega Lindbergh PSUs are exactly that, they even have a switch for ATX and JVS modes (auto start and start on trigger pin)
I meant using a new off the shelf ATX PSU that has over 20a on the 5v rail. 
The SUN model has a switch but the Nipron PSU doesn't, well I can't find a switch on the Nipron PSU anyways.
Edited wrong info out regarding shorting pins 'PS On and gnd', it does work powering up the Nipron PSU.
The SUN model has a switch but the Nipron PSU doesn't, well I can't find a switch on the Nipron PSU anyways.
Edited wrong info out regarding shorting pins 'PS On and gnd', it does work powering up the Nipron PSU.
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kazuo
Grand Master
Fair enough, my hunch was based on personal experience with owning several of those Sanwa PSUs and using them on Model 3's for years with no problems.
I feel like the Mean Well PSU should be more than sufficient for this application.
I feel like the Mean Well PSU should be more than sufficient for this application.
My friend only plays SpikeOut FE which is a game renowned for being able to
play for long sessions, when I play I can easily play for well over 4
hours.
His old setup also utilized a DSB2 and an audio amp.
Maybe adding those takes the PSU to an really uncomfortable threshold where it generates too much heat?
What games do you play on your setup? Do you also run anything else alongside the Model HW?
play for long sessions, when I play I can easily play for well over 4
hours.
His old setup also utilized a DSB2 and an audio amp.
Maybe adding those takes the PSU to an really uncomfortable threshold where it generates too much heat?
What games do you play on your setup? Do you also run anything else alongside the Model HW?
kazuo
Grand Master
Amusingly, one of the boards I use is also SpikeOut FE (I have two). I also have VF3TB. The conversion harness I use has a small audio amp and is powered off a Sanwa PSU (you can see pics of my harness and the amp one page back). I don't run anything else besides the M3 board, just plug the conversion harness into the JAMMA connector, harness into the PCB and the Sanwa PSU.
Do your power connectors that plug into the PSU get warm/hot?
When using an original Model 3 - Blast City loom in my Blast I've noticed that the power connectors plugged into the Blast I/O get a bit warm. This kinda concerns me a bit to be honest as I tend to play for a long sessions when I sit down to play.
If there was a way to mod a premium Seasonic PSU with voltage adjustments I'd be doing that for sure going forward.
When using an original Model 3 - Blast City loom in my Blast I've noticed that the power connectors plugged into the Blast I/O get a bit warm. This kinda concerns me a bit to be honest as I tend to play for a long sessions when I sit down to play.
If there was a way to mod a premium Seasonic PSU with voltage adjustments I'd be doing that for sure going forward.
biggestsonicfan
Professional
Now imagine being an arcade operator where a "long session" means the unit is on from before opening to after closing.
That's the kinda thing I'm worried about.
kazuo
Grand Master
Lots of Japanese Arcades run the exact same harness and PSU I own and never had a problem. I do wonder if the issue that Ringo's friend had may have been influenced by voltage conversion (being that Ringo's location is the UK)? Just speculation on my part. Granted, I also use a voltage converter on mine, but I also use a Mean Well on one of them since I got one without the Sanwa PSU. All that said, I've had multiple sessions over weekends where friends and I played SpikeOut for 8+ hours (no joke), and we didn't have a single problem. Nothing melted, nothing caught fire.
I understand the level of concern here due to the power draw of these boards, plus Ken's comments, but I think as long as you're using a high-quality adjustable power supply with the correct input voltage for your region, there shouldn't be a problem.
I understand the level of concern here due to the power draw of these boards, plus Ken's comments, but I think as long as you're using a high-quality adjustable power supply with the correct input voltage for your region, there shouldn't be a problem.
you're missing the whole point being discussed here.
were talking about not routing power through the JAMMA EDGE, the discussion has nothing to do with the power supply being used and everything to do with not piping the power through an edge connector that is too weak to carry the current of the system.
your harness is already setup the way Ken and I and others are suggesting this new harness be setup
