Ive had my Naomi for quite some time but Ive always used it in 31k mode, usually in my Blast City and more recently on a supergun and a VGA monitor. What I'd like, is to try running it on my PVM to test, and also to try it in My New Astro City as well. I'm aware of the dip switches, and I've also heard something about outputting 15k from the VGA connector on the I/O but, where would that connect in a jamma cab?
- Thread starter Mugicha
- Start date
I think that would just be if your monitor had a VGA connector that accepted a 15k signal. Just flip dip switch 1 and you should have 15k.
I guess I should also ask, is it possible to get the Naomi to display over Jamma through the harness? I know we've tested my netdimm setup at your house with your supergun and the big tv.
Right now I'm trying to figure out how to setup the Naomi on my pvm with the HAS supergun, I definitely tried the dip switches but nothing displayed.
As Mitsu said... flipping dip 1 changes between 15KhZ and 31KHz mode.
If you want the video output over a JAMMA harness then you'll want to use a Sega JVS 2 JAMMA I/O or the Capcom I/O and run a VGA cable between your NAOMI and the I/O board.
If you want the video output over a JAMMA harness then you'll want to use a Sega JVS 2 JAMMA I/O or the Capcom I/O and run a VGA cable between your NAOMI and the I/O board.
ahh I see, I wasn't sure what to do with the VGA cable in that scenario. thank you man, I'll give it a shot!
all right, so I managed to get something to display by connecting the vga cable from the I/O to the mobo, but now I'm having a screen sync issue, that I havent been able to solve.
without changing the monitor settings, I tried my saturn and pgm with supergun and they displayed perfectly, so im not sure whats causing the flickering
without changing the monitor settings, I tried my saturn and pgm with supergun and they displayed perfectly, so im not sure whats causing the flickering
What I/O board are you using?
If you're using a Capcom I/O and you look under the cage through the JAMMA edge connector opening you'll see 2 slide switches, the one on the left is to change between C-Sync and H/V Sync so you could try toggling that. (the switch on the right is to swap the kick harness between 2P 6-button mode and 4P mode).
If you're using the Sega JVS2JAMMA I/O I don't know what sync mode that uses but it's not changable AFAIK.
If you're using a Capcom I/O and you look under the cage through the JAMMA edge connector opening you'll see 2 slide switches, the one on the left is to change between C-Sync and H/V Sync so you could try toggling that. (the switch on the right is to swap the kick harness between 2P 6-button mode and 4P mode).
If you're using the Sega JVS2JAMMA I/O I don't know what sync mode that uses but it's not changable AFAIK.
thanks for your help twist. I did try toggling that switch, it was set on H/V and I moved it to C and back but unfortunately, there was no difference.
skate323k137
Enlightened
it's already been mentioned but you should really just have to turn on dip 1. I would expect your supergun to take care of this, but you should also have 220 ohm resistors on R G B and Sync to get the levels down to what the PVM expects.
J
jassin000
PVM only accepts a composited sync, the scrambled image above still looks like h/v syncing.
All you should need to do is flip one dip switch and use one of these...
VGA-to-BNC cable
Do not use (for video) a IO! Go directly from the Naomi VGA port to the PVM with the above cable.
Only 4 of the 5 BNC's gets connected, again this is because of composite sync (not H and V).
With the 15k dip enabled, the pinout of the VGA port becomes this...
All you should need to do is flip one dip switch and use one of these...
VGA-to-BNC cable
Do not use (for video) a IO! Go directly from the Naomi VGA port to the PVM with the above cable.
Only 4 of the 5 BNC's gets connected, again this is because of composite sync (not H and V).
With the 15k dip enabled, the pinout of the VGA port becomes this...
Last edited by a moderator:
Interesting. So there are 2 (main) types of VGA BNC cables
RGBHV for use with 31Khz (you linked to)
RGBc for use with 15khz (you pictured)
But I see that on a RGBHV, pin 13 is H horizontal sync.
So In this case is it possible to just use a RGBHV VGA BNC cable as well?
Or is the ground in the RGBc also needed for some monitors?
RGBHV for use with 31Khz (you linked to)
RGBc for use with 15khz (you pictured)
But I see that on a RGBHV, pin 13 is H horizontal sync.
So In this case is it possible to just use a RGBHV VGA BNC cable as well?
Or is the ground in the RGBc also needed for some monitors?
J
jassin000
Just get one 5 wire VGA-to-BNC cable like I linked, connect 4 out of the 5 (red/green/blue/c-sync) BNC ends to the back of your PVM/BVM.
The 5th BNC is for VGA pin #14, which is NOT used when the 15k dip is active.
Alternatively if you think it more cosmetically attractive, you could use one of these on BNC #4 & 5 (5 is just dead weight)...
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
However be warned, if you send a normal 31k (with H/V syncs bridged) to your PVM it WILL damage it over time (the sync is super messy)!
Also this is assuming your PVM/BVM accepts 31k, some (maybe most) only do 15k modes (my 14L5 did 15~41k aka 240p~1080p)
For proper joining/compositing of H/V syncs you need a device like a Extron 580, this is mine hooked to the Dreamcast, ready to output into a xRGB mini (which also demands c-sync)...
Again all 5 BNC's are connected above, but because the Extron is set to "COMP SYNC" BNC #5 is just cosmetic (dead weight).
The 5th BNC is for VGA pin #14, which is NOT used when the 15k dip is active.
Alternatively if you think it more cosmetically attractive, you could use one of these on BNC #4 & 5 (5 is just dead weight)...
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
However be warned, if you send a normal 31k (with H/V syncs bridged) to your PVM it WILL damage it over time (the sync is super messy)!
Also this is assuming your PVM/BVM accepts 31k, some (maybe most) only do 15k modes (my 14L5 did 15~41k aka 240p~1080p)
For proper joining/compositing of H/V syncs you need a device like a Extron 580, this is mine hooked to the Dreamcast, ready to output into a xRGB mini (which also demands c-sync)...
Again all 5 BNC's are connected above, but because the Extron is set to "COMP SYNC" BNC #5 is just cosmetic (dead weight).
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skate323k137
Enlightened
It really shouldn't be a hassle. I've run the NAOMI in 15khz through a capcom IO / supergun just fine... nothing special (well, aside from dip1 on the naomi and the sync switch in the IO that's already been mentioned).
Edit: worth mentioning I did do this with a PVM. Video from the NAOMI went to the IO on a VGA cable, then over JAMMA to the PVM (supergun uses 220 ohm resistors on each line, R G B and Sync).
Edit: worth mentioning I did do this with a PVM. Video from the NAOMI went to the IO on a VGA cable, then over JAMMA to the PVM (supergun uses 220 ohm resistors on each line, R G B and Sync).
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skate323k137
Enlightened
I don't think so. Most display in both, some I think are 31khz only. That said IMO games like Capcom vs Snk kind of look better in 15khz. Most games though are much nicer in 31khz.
I've never run into a game that wouldn't run in 31K mode. However after looking at the CRT Gun hardware used in Ninja Assault I believe the game is designed to run in 15K mode, though it may still run (just with out the guns) in 31K mode. Hard to say without access to the hardware, and it hasn't been patched for Net/CF booting so...
Every game I've tried running in 15K mode has run in 480i. Granted I haven't tried all of them but I'd think that even Sprite based games would look better in 480P over 480i unless some of those titles do actually support 240P in 15K mode.
The Dreamcast RGB output VS VGA is similar with nearly all RGB games running in 480i with only a select few running in 240P:
- Bangai-O
- GunBird 2
- JoJo's Bizarre Adventure
- Mars Matrix
- Marvel vs Capcom
- Street Fighter Zero 3
- Street Fighter Zero 3 for Matching Service
- Street Fighter III Double Impact
- Street Fighter III Third Strike
- The King of Fighters: Dream Match 99
- The King of Fighters 99 Evolution
- Twinkle Star Sprites
It's worth noting that none of those are NAOMI titles.
skate323k137
Enlightened
If you have an easy way to tell 480i vs 240p (aside from the obvious jittering), fire up capcom vs snk 2. I recall being told in the past (maybe on the old sega-naomi forums?) that it just line doubles to get 480p.
I'll fire it up tonight and see what it says. The monitor I'm using displays the source resolution.
typically "line doubling" is used to convert 480i to 480p
since 480i is really 640x240 with alternating fields all that needs to be doubled is the lines.
240p typically has a horizontal resolution of 320 so line doubling would result in 320x480p. To properly scale 320x240 to 640x480 what you'd want is "Pixel Doubling" which despite it's name actually multiplies each pixel by 4 (really it's "pixel squaring") since it doubles both the lines and the columns.
If there are NAOMI games that do indeed support 240P that would warrant another round of testing all the games to see which games support what.
typically "line doubling" is used to convert 480i to 480p
since 480i is really 640x240 with alternating fields all that needs to be doubled is the lines.
240p typically has a horizontal resolution of 320 so line doubling would result in 320x480p. To properly scale 320x240 to 640x480 what you'd want is "Pixel Doubling" which despite it's name actually multiplies each pixel by 4 (really it's "pixel squaring") since it doubles both the lines and the columns.
If there are NAOMI games that do indeed support 240P that would warrant another round of testing all the games to see which games support what.
I ran Capcom Vs SNK, Capcom Vs SNK Pro, and Capcom Vs SNK 2 and all of them output in 480i on my NAOMI 2 with Rev C bios in 15K Mode. I also tested Street Fighter Zero 3 Upper for Good measure and that was also 480i
Just to be through I swapped out for a NAOMI 1 mobo with Rev H bios and tested again. all 4 output in 480i again.
:-/ This is one instance where I was hoping I'd be wrong; these games would look great in proper 240P
EDIT: just for giggles I tried an Atomiswave game in 15K mode (Guilty Gear Isuka) and it runs in 680x452i
Maybe MetalliC or someone who knows more about the NAOMI hardware can confirm but I wouldn't be surprised if everything renders internally at 31K and for 15K mode they just interlace the output.
Just to be through I swapped out for a NAOMI 1 mobo with Rev H bios and tested again. all 4 output in 480i again.
:-/ This is one instance where I was hoping I'd be wrong; these games would look great in proper 240P
EDIT: just for giggles I tried an Atomiswave game in 15K mode (Guilty Gear Isuka) and it runs in 680x452i
Maybe MetalliC or someone who knows more about the NAOMI hardware can confirm but I wouldn't be surprised if everything renders internally at 31K and for 15K mode they just interlace the output.
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