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JVS Information extractor

@xodaraP please update your profile with your (aproximate) location.

I'd love to see that JVS read. Can you do yourself a cable like that one i posted which is a total quick crap that I did and is totally non EMC Directive compliant :)
 
Updated, thought I already did that :) I'm a long way from anyone lol

I'll have a look but I can't see why I wouldn't be able to
 
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the COM port of your computer is a RS232. If you have a computer with a COM port, you're good.

About the adapter, although the plug and the connector are the same like USB, the pinout and the protocols are not the same. In short THEY ARE NOT USB. Don't connect it to your PC directly, only via the adapter.
 
C'mon guys, who else has a I/O that is not dumped and the answer differs from the ones I posted?
 
Darksoft said:
the COM port of your computer is a RS232. If you have a computer with a COM port, you're good.

About the adapter, although the plug and the connector are the same like USB, the pinout and the protocols are not the same. In short THEY ARE NOT USB. Don't connect it to your PC directly, only via the adapter.
Click to expand...
Most modern computers don't seem to use them anymore (especially laptops) I've got an older machine here I use for MAME though so we're good :)

I'll make sure to make and use the adapter - I was interested to know why you prefer serial as opposed to USB especially since the connectors are the same, is serial easier to work with?
 
MetalliC said:
invzim said:
Which is a little odd - software update from sega?
Click to expand...
Type-2 IO may have either ROMs:EPR-21868
SEGA ENTERPRISES,LTD.;837-13741 I/O CONTROL BD2;Ver0.15;99/06

EPR-22082
SEGA ENTERPRISES,LTD.;837-13844-01 I/O CNTL BD2 ;Ver1.00;99/07

EPR-24354 (837-14645 model)
SEGA CORPORATION ;837-14506 I/O CNTL BD2 ;Ver1.01 ;2005/08
Click to expand...
But it is the same physical PCB on all 3?
 
Could Namco have been weird and developed the board so that it won't respond to commands without the Sense line from the master? That's not per my understanding of the spec, but probably allowed. The I/O could somehow be sensing the Sense line on the output side before sinking it...

Does JVS-PAC utilize Sense? If not, then perhaps my hypothesis is sound.
 
xodaraP said:
Darksoft said:
the COM port of your computer is a RS232. If you have a computer with a COM port, you're good.

About the adapter, although the plug and the connector are the same like USB, the pinout and the protocols are not the same. In short THEY ARE NOT USB. Don't connect it to your PC directly, only via the adapter.
Click to expand...
Most modern computers don't seem to use them anymore (especially laptops) I've got an older machine here I use for MAME though so we're good :)
I'll make sure to make and use the adapter - I was interested to know why you prefer serial as opposed to USB especially since the connectors are the same, is serial easier to work with?
Click to expand...
Well, I think those COM readers are easier to get. You can get a USB like this one for $35 (vs $10):
http://www.usconverters.com/usb-rs485-converter-cable
but you need to install drivers, but then my program won't work as it's made to work only with COM.
 
winteriscoming said:
Could Namco have been weird and developed the board so that it won't respond to commands without the Sense line from the master? That's not per my understanding of the spec, but probably allowed. The I/O could somehow be sensing the Sense line on the output side before sinking it...

Does JVS-PAC utilize Sense? If not, then perhaps my hypothesis is sound.
Click to expand...
you can try reading it the same way I did. I don't use the sense line, so that would be a way to know for sure.
 
winteriscoming said:
Could Namco have been weird and developed the board so that it won't respond to commands without the Sense line from the master? That's not per my understanding of the spec, but probably allowed. The I/O could somehow be sensing the Sense line on the output side before sinking it...

Does JVS-PAC utilize Sense? If not, then perhaps my hypothesis is sound.
Click to expand...
Interesting idea, does the NAOMI utilize the sense line? The Capcom and Sega I/O boards don't as far as I'm aware - would seem strange for only one manufacturer to use it, though as you said if it's part of the spec the NAOMI would realistically have to support it
 
Darksoft said:
xodaraP said:
Darksoft said:
the COM port of your computer is a RS232. If you have a computer with a COM port, you're good.

About the adapter, although the plug and the connector are the same like USB, the pinout and the protocols are not the same. In short THEY ARE NOT USB. Don't connect it to your PC directly, only via the adapter.
Click to expand...
Most modern computers don't seem to use them anymore (especially laptops) I've got an older machine here I use for MAME though so we're good :) I'll make sure to make and use the adapter - I was interested to know why you prefer serial as opposed to USB especially since the connectors are the same, is serial easier to work with?
Click to expand...
Well, I think those COM readers are easier to get. You can get a USB like this one for $35 (vs $10):http://www.usconverters.com/usb-rs485-converter-cable
but you need to install drivers, but then my program won't work as it's made to work only with COM.
Click to expand...
fair enough, RS-232 adapter it is! I'll see about getting the parts and building the converter
 
xodaraP said:
winteriscoming said:
Could Namco have been weird and developed the board so that it won't respond to commands without the Sense line from the master? That's not per my understanding of the spec, but probably allowed. The I/O could somehow be sensing the Sense line on the output side before sinking it...

Does JVS-PAC utilize Sense? If not, then perhaps my hypothesis is sound.
Click to expand...
Interesting idea, does the NAOMI utilize the sense line? The Capcom and Sega I/O boards don't as far as I'm aware - would seem strange for only one manufacturer to use it, though as you said if it's part of the spec the NAOMI would realistically have to support it
Click to expand...
I'm by no means an expert, but I belive the following is true:
All officially JVS compliant motherboards and I/O boards utilize Sense.

However, the requirement when we're dealing with a motherboard (master) and a single I/O is that the main board supplies 5v on Sense and senses that it has been divided to 2.5v by the I/O, and subsequently sunk to ground by the I/O at the necessary time based on a command from the motherboard.

Basically in this relationship, the motherboard cares about Sense, and the I/O doesn't really need to know that it's there.

In the case of the adapter and program that Darksoft has put together, your computer is becoming the motherboard (master) from the I/O board's perspective. In this case, since the motherboard is responsible for sensing changes on Sense, you can ignore accomodating for it altogether.

So a more valid statement about most JVS I/O boards is that they do not require Sense in order to communicate with the motherboard. They are not responsible for making sure Sense is present, at least in that direction.
 
winteriscoming said:
Could Namco have been weird and developed the board so that it won't respond to commands without the Sense line from the master? That's not per my understanding of the spec, but probably allowed. The I/O could somehow be sensing the Sense line on the output side before sinking it...

Does JVS-PAC utilize Sense? If not, then perhaps my hypothesis is sound.
Click to expand...
The JVS-PAC uses sense, but only as an input, and to check that the IO is initialized. I don't think masters are supposed to be responsible for rising or sinking the sense line.
 
invzim said:
The JVS-PAC uses sense, but only as an input, and to check that the IO is initialized.
Click to expand...
Am I misunderstanding the relationship? Which is responsible for supplying Sense voltage, master or slave? I was under the impression that the master supplies the voltage and senses that the I/O has divided it to 2.5, letting it know an I/O is plugged up, and then the I/O sinks it to ground, letting the master know all other boards (if available) are assigned and the one closest to the master is ready for ID assignment.

The way I've got my I/O handling Sense is that it:
1. 4 diodes in series connect Sense to ground. (I'm not an EE... Does this divide the voltage?) [*Edit: my understanding is that the diodes are dropping the voltage across each one, effectively dividing it to the necessary level].
2. When needed, Sense is grounded by way of a MOSFET.

My board is not supplying the Sense voltage, only manipulating it as provided by the master.
 
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winteriscoming said:
Am I misunderstanding the relationship? Which is responsible for supplying Sense voltage, master or slave?
Click to expand...
you seems not really understood how it works.
JVS IO have 2 sense lines - one is input from next IO in the chain, and second is output to host or previous IO in the chain. and they are not connected. JVS Host have sense input only.
I can explain reset and addressing procedures which uses these sence lines, but I think this is wrong topic for this.
 
So the two connectors that have most JVS to concatenate I/Os have different senses. All clear.
 
I think this is on-topic due to my hypothesis about the Namco board.
MetalliC said:
JVS IO have 2 sense lines - one is input from next IO in the chain, and second is output to host or previous IO
in the chain. and they are not connected. JVS Host have sense input only.
Click to expand...
I understand there are 2 directions for Sense for handling multiple nodes, and I understand they're not connected.

I'm referring, for this topic, exclusively to the side of the I/O referred to as an output connected to the motherboard, in the instance where there is a single I/O. In that case the side of the I/O that senses Sense from the previous I/O is irrelevant.

Even though it's referred to as output on the I/O, in my experience it is NOT outputting anything or doesn't have to, at least on my custom I/O, which has proven to work on NAOMI, Chihiro and Lindbergh. It is only connecting voltage coming in from Sense, dropping the voltage through diodes and sinking the line to ground when needed.

Here's the diagram from the manual I'm using for how I've implemented it:
data:image/png;base64,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

B connector is where the Sense voltage comes in from the main board. The I/O brings it to ground when the transistor is activated and drops voltage across 4 diodes, basically affecting the Sense line as far as the main board is sensing it.

So in this case, the I/O is NOT responsible for sensing voltage. It just drives the transistor to ground Sense during initialization.

This is why the adapter Darksoft has put together should not require Sense. The I/O should not care that Sense is present on the B port.

What I'm suggesting is that on the Namco I/O in question, perhaps they integrated some kind of sensor at the B connector to make sure Sense is present from the motherboard before allowing acknowledgements to commands.

We'll know more once @xodaraP puts an adapter together for the extractor. If no replies, then maybe apply 5v to Sense and see if it replies then. *Edit: If applying 5v to Sense, do so through a 10k ohm resistor. Do not wire 5v directly from a power supply to the Sense line, the I/O will short it to ground during initialization.
 
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ahh, ok, I see.
winteriscoming said:
What I'm suggesting is that on the Namco I/O in question, perhaps they integrated some kind of sensor at the B connector to make sure Sense is present from the motherboard before allowing acknowledgements to commands.
Click to expand...
its possible, but I'd bet on custom JVS commands, 70 xx, all Namco IOs have them.
does it show anything connected to Naomi/Triforce/Chihiro/etc ?

as I see Cyberlead IO's SH2 is romless, so I'm wondering there is it's firmware ? perhaps in QFP labeled JVSAMG1 ?
 
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