What do I need to get AW2Naomi running?

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    • MarkWolfe wrote:

      wait, I'm over thinking this ... CF ... Compact Flash ... Got it, But I don't know how it all fits together or what is needed

      Try googling it :) :)
      enter "naomi cf boot" in youtube as search text and you'll have a pretty good idea:
      * Arcade-projects, the site where you get the most of your arcade games.
      * If you want Drama go to Neo-Geo forum ---Darksoft
    • MarkWolfe wrote:

      umm you lost me at "CF" :whistling:
      Where can I read a primer on this and a detailed list of all the required parts to get it going ?
      You need lots of things. But best to obtain a working Naomi-based cab then add in the parts that you need later. CF equals compact flash, as in the cards. CF booting is a method to load games onto the memory modules of the Naomi Dimm via a firmware mod + modded security chip (called a Zero Key) + a CF to SCSI reader/adapter. Netbooting is a method where you load games via your home network to a NetDimm's memory modules. Here is an itemized list:
      • You need a working Sega Naomi (about $55 shipped)
      • You need a JVS to JAMMA I/O board. The Sega version will set you back about $50 shipped. The Capcom version will set you back $150. If you go with the Sega I/O board, You need the proper connects to wire to your cab's JAMMA harness. The Capcom version uses the standard CPS2/3 kick harness connector, of course, which is one of the reasons that makes it more highly sought after and more expensive.
      • You need a Naomi PSU which outputs 3.3volt in addition to the JAMMA standard 5volts and 12volts.
      • You need the latest Naomi BIOS or multi-region BIOS
      For CF booting:
      • You need a modded Sega NAOMI Dimm to CF boot (about $45 shipped which will require you to have a Zero Key (costs around $15) and you will need to upgrade to the hacked 4.02 firmware. You can do this yourself if you have the tools and a NetDimm (what a kicker). Or you can contact Mitsurugi-w who can do it for you once you obtain a Dimm. CF = Compact Flash
      • You need a compact flash SCSI reader. Build it yourself or PM Mitsurugi-w
      • You need CF cards
      • You need an IDE CF adapter to read the CF cards and to write the game roms to them
      For Netbooting:

      You need to obtain a NetDimm + Zero key. The cost of the NetDimm is just about the same as the cost of a Dimm with the requisite upgrades and parts. You can save some dough if you can perform the firmware upgrade yourself on the regular Dimm. But the NetDimm is highly coveted and are infrequently up for sale.

      You can also replace the Naomi with a Naomi 2 for about 6x the cost. You'll be able to play a few more games with a Naomi 2. Again, best that you obtain a working Naomi cab, then add in the parts you need to CF boot or netboot later. Often a working Naomi cab costs less than the sum of its parts. Cart before the horse thing, so pump the brakes and work on getting a Naomi cab first. I was lucky one of my first pick-ups was a Naomi cab just a few months ago. I am still a newb at all of this.
    • You're the man because despite all the googling in the world what I really needed was a list like this

      I have the whole CF thing covered because I do a lot with Amiga and Atari computers and have SCSI to IDE adaptors and IDE to CF and that all works on normal SCSI chains . Have tons of CF cards and a few readers

      Knowing what Naomi components I need is crucial

      How do I tell the difference between Naomi 1 & 2 ? Was on eBay and could not quite tell but I'm sure a quick Google will answer that

      There at currently a few net dimm units on eBay at around $100 and a couple sellers who have already modified them for this and are selling them for like $250 which is nuts

      I guess what I need to do is see what extra games can be played on a Naomi 2 and figure out if I even like any of them to warrant the expense

      I can't get a cabinet, no room for it . I'll have to use my current cab altho the monitor is low res but it looks like the Naomi is easy to supergun

      Anyway, thanks a TON for all this great info

    • ok I've digested a lot of that and have a couple questions

      What makes the net dimm "256mb" ?

      You said something about modding the firmware myself, where is the tutorial for that ?

      I see the zero keys all over eBay, price is as you quoted and a couple Unmodified net dimm units for around $100

      So I get the bios and the net dim ...I have the JAMMA conversion thing covered and also the power supple because there are a few very cheap ones taken out of Naomi cabs so that seems to be the way to go

      Is that it? Aside from the main motherboard?

      I have a raspberry Pi 3 so setting up the piloader will be easy, is there a tutorial for doing that ?

      I gues lastly are the game downloads in the main thread here all up to date and still working ? Would be cool to see a compilation hosted at MEGA.NZ but as long as the mediafire links work, that takes care of all my questions for now

      • The Naomi 2 is dark gray. The Naomi 1 is white. You'll also be able to tell because of the difference in cost.
      • Don't confuse a Dimm for a NetDimm. A NetDimm has an ethernet port on it. A Dimm doesn't.
      • You can play Virtua Fighter 4 and some cool racing games with a Naomi 2. But then again, you need a racing cabinet which you don't have space for. Virtua Fighter was never big here in the US, so I am thinking you should save yourself the cash.
      • The Naomi outputs 15khz standard res, so your fine using it in your existing cab. Naomi's are easy to obtain. NetDimm's are like.....well, good luck there buddy on finding one. Equally hard to find are the Naomi 2's.
      • Don't think your SCSI to IDE adapters will do you any good with CF booting. If I recall, I read somewhere Naomi Dimm's use SCSI connectors and parts, but have their own interface protocols. I could be wrong. The IDE to CF adapters you have will work for reading and writing your CF cards though.
      • Watch this video and follow the links posted there to see what you are up against. It will take a few viewings to digest.
      • There are merits for CF booting vs. Netbooting. CF booting will save you lots of money if you can get the stuff you need and do the work yourself. Regular Dimm's are also easier to obtain. Also, lots of people play staple Naomi games over and over, so they just stick the CF card in and secure their cabs and don't think about it again. There is no need for the flexibility afforded by Netbooting with a NetDimm in these instances.

      MarkWolfe wrote:

      You're the man because despite all the googling in the world what I really needed was a list like this
      Nope. I am just a newbie like you. I have about an 8 month head start on you is all. Found this site and used it to become Harvard-educated in Arcade Gaming 101. Haven't even taken my freshman year finals yet.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by acblunden2 ().

    • Good idea to create a thread out of this

      I replied before it had been done so I trashed it in the other thread and repost my reply here

      Even more clarity thank you

      I mentioned the SCSI CF adaptor bexause Darksodt posted one that was for sale or is that PCB spexifically made for this purpose ? I didn't see that in the listing he posted

      I looked up the short list of Naomi 2 games and none of them really interest me enough to warrant the cost

      FWIW there are currenttly two "net dimm" units on sale on eBay for around $250+ ship if anyone wants to spend that much

      I'm gonna pass on that cuz I don't see myself needing the luxury

      The only Leftover question is in regard to the 256mb modification, is that taken care of when you install the zero key? And what if the firmware update ? Or is that too the same thing ?

      Thanks again for the clarity !!

      acblunden2 wrote:

      MarkWolfe wrote:

      my bad, the $100 dimms are not net dimms ... I see . So that rules out piloader? Is that correct ?
      NetDimm is indeed required for piloading. Also, start a different thread to ask about your needs. Let's keep this thread to the original topic.
    • DIMMs and NetDIMMs came in 3 sizes, 256mb, 512mb and later on 1gb (used in Chihiro and I think Triforce?)

      90% of games work on the 256mb DIMM, Melty Blood and I think Virtua Fighter Final Tuned (which also requires a NAOMI 2) require the 512mb DIMM/NetDIMM

      I believe a 256mb DIMM can be upgraded to 512mb the same way you would upgrade any PC, the RAM is the same you just have to find a compatible type and have to have 2 matching sticks.

      A Zero Key is a replacement PIC for the DIMM board - the space on the board (you will see a cutout in the metal plate for it) is for a security PIC which is changed depending on which game is in the cabinet. A Zero Key is a modified version of a legitimate security PIC which tells the DIMM/NAOMI what it wants to hear regardless of what it's being given :)

      Essentially the NAOMI asks "So...... I'm loading Marvel vs Capcom 2, is the correct security key installed?" and the Zero Key replies "Of course!"
    • acblunden2 wrote:

      • Watch this video and follow the links posted there to see what you are up against. It will take a few viewings to digest.

      Ok so I tried to watch that video and found it to be very scatterbrained. it didn't explain a few key issues but I noticed he had a website open on his PC that seems to have all the answers

      We can ask Darksoft or others who know for sure but I do think that this SCSISD PCB will work since I think it was Darksoft who posted the link to it in the AW2NAOMI News thread


      That being said, maybe the thing with the reversed power lines in the video may be an issue (the guy in the video didn't remember which was which and he didn't say if that was a problem with ALL SCSI adaptors or just his.

      I know it is a "thing" with Amiga Floppy Emulators, 12v is actually on the black cable not the red in the Amiga 500, so you must always check that before modding things like this

      I have a SCSI to SATA adaptor. They are quite expensive but I was sent one in an eBay auction for a SCSI DVD R and it turned out it was a SATA DVD R with this cool adaptor on it and I only paid like $30 for it . They normally go for well over $100, I've seen them for as much as $350 so for most people this will not be a viable option but maybe the link above will be ?

      Using a SATA to IDE and then IDE to CF I should be able to make my own dimm adaptor for no further investment on parts. I'll just need to check pinout for power and the rest to be sure
    • MarkWolfe wrote:

      Where can I read a primer on this and a detailed list of all the required parts to get it going ?
      How to Net-boot NAOMI/Tri-Force/Chihiro Using Pi-Force Tools

      That covers net-booting

      Alternatively you can use nearly the same setup except replace the raspberry pi with a CF (Compact Flash) card reader (either the official Sega one, or one made by Mitsurugi-w or one built yourself) on that you use CF card with the game image on it and swap the cards like game carts.
      Buy 3D Printed Parts: bit-district.com
      Projects: instagram | blog
      Games: VAPS | VOOT | UMK3 | RFM | Vewlix | FiF Jr. | KI2 | E29 | Net City | DDR | Flash Beats
      Wanted | For Sale/Trade
    • MarkWolfe wrote:

      Wait, there is an official Sega SCSI CF ?
      yup. Sega started making them toward the end of the NAOMI's life span since there were a lot of GDROM failures.

      MarkWolfe wrote:

      I won't be getting a net dimm due to cost
      Without a Net-DIMM you would need to have a regular DIMM modified before it can be used with a CF reader, this involves removing a surface mount chip, reprogramming the chip and then re-soldering it back in the DIMM board. There's a guide here: [Tutorial] Naomi reading compact flash on 'normal' non-net dimmboard I know Mitsurugi-w also offers this service but it is something that needs to be done before you can use CF cards. A Net-DIMM doesn't have this problem because it can be reprogrammed via the network interface.

      MarkWolfe wrote:

      I am curious as to what the changes are to an existing SCSI CF to make it compatible and if it is the power leads being revearsed or if there is more to it .
      There's an excellent thread on how to modify an existing CF reader for use with a DIMM board here: The Guided DIY CF Card Reader Thread!!
      Buy 3D Printed Parts: bit-district.com
      Projects: instagram | blog
      Games: VAPS | VOOT | UMK3 | RFM | Vewlix | FiF Jr. | KI2 | E29 | Net City | DDR | Flash Beats
      Wanted | For Sale/Trade

      The post was edited 2 times, last by twistedsymphony ().

    • I think you may have missed a bunch of previous discussion, we def covered the issue of needing a modified dimm and I'm on it . Already have a handful of eBay listings bookmarked, just trying to see how to get it all the parts for the least amount of expenditure

      Thank you SO much for posting the link for the DIY SCSI CF. It makes this thread a lot more useful for newbies in the future (and me right now)

      I have a working SCSI to CF adaptor already . It works great on standard SCSI ports

      BTW the link above tells you how to turn an IDE to CF into. SCSI CF ... The latter being very rare. SCSI to IDE or SCSI to SATA adaptors are very expensive. I just happen to have one and there is a new product on eBay that Darksoft posted a link to if you read earlier on in this thread I reposted it here

      I'm waiting for confirmation that it works plug and play without issue

      The post was edited 2 times, last by MarkWolfe ().