NAMCO N2 HDD Cloning question

[freddiefiasco]

There doesn't seem to be a lot of information on the NAMCO N2 System. I have a non operational NAMCO N2 that contains WMMT3 on the hard drive. Would it be possible for me to use something like HDD Raw Copy Image Tool to create a raw image of my original hard drive?

I have had some experiences in the past where removing a hard drive from the original PC and plugging it in to a different PC causes the drive to suicide.

From what I gather, the USB game dongle that comes with the N2 system is locked to the hard drives serial number so I don't expect to use a different hard drive at all to clone the drive. I just merely want to see if it can be saved to a raw image to restore to the same drive at a later time.

 

[corey]

from what i have read you shouldn't have any issue cloning the drive to itself.
But i would use something like dd on linux to do your back-up as i believe it has raw data out side the file system

also here is a link to some good info about the n2 system
https://medium.com/@dropkickshell/system-n2-exposed-5395436c824d#.ymz3cchxo

 

[freddiefiasco]

from what i have read you shouldn't have any issue cloning the drive to itself.
But i would use something like dd on linux to do your back-up as i believe it has raw data out side the file system

also here is a link to some good info about the n2 system
https://medium.com/@dropkickshell/system-n2-exposed-5395436c824d#.ymz3cchxo

Nice thanks! I was actually reading this not more than a few minutes ago and it seems pretty interesting. I have only used dd a couple times in the past. Does Raw Copy Tool leave out some things that dd can pick up?

 

[corey]

Does Raw Copy Tool leave out some things that dd can pick up?

not sure i just dont trust windows wont get involved and screw it up. also windows auto mounts drives and writes a little bit to it when it does.
where as Linux doesn't mount anything until you tell it and you can mount read only so it will never write to the disk.

 

[rtw]

not sure i just dont trust windows wont get involved and screw it up. also windows auto mounts drives and writes a little bit to it when it does.where as Linux doesn't mount anything until you tell it and you can mount read only so it will never write to the disk.

fun fact, in order to make an NTFS read-only, Windows has to WRITE to the disk ...

 

[corey]

fun fact, in order to make an NTFS read-only, Windows has to WRITE to the disk ...

and this is why i hate windows. but then the game support makes me need it

 

[rtw]

fun fact, in order to make an NTFS read-only, Windows has to WRITE to the disk ...

and this is why i hate windows. but then the game support makes me need it

When I have to read a disk on Windows I use thumbscrew to disable write access to my USB ports and then use a USB->PATA/SATA adapter

 

[freddiefiasco]

Does Raw Copy Tool leave out some things that dd can pick up?

not sure i just dont trust windows wont get involved and screw it up. also windows auto mounts drives and writes a little bit to it when it does.where as Linux doesn't mount anything until you tell it and you can mount read only so it will never write to the disk.

This scares me even more. It should be called 'sorta-read-only'. I'll stick with Linux.

 

[freddiefiasco]

Is it possible to find where a Hard Drive ID is stored on an unecrypted part of the linux partition on the WMMT3 HDD to change it so you can transfer the content to a different drive? If a failure occurs, is it possible to swap the data to another drive simply by changing the hardware ID the N2 is married to within the load sequence.

 

[cyclemat]

I have read a hacking guide from the ES1 i mean the same is on tne n2
https://medium.com/@ValdikSS/resear...co-system-es1-arcades-1f8423fdeb3b#.2iahhhpfs

hope it will help

 

[freddiefiasco]

I have read a hacking guide from the ES1 i mean the same is on tne n2
https://medium.com/@ValdikSS/resear...co-system-es1-arcades-1f8423fdeb3b#.2iahhhpfs

hope it will help

thanks @cyclemat I was actually in the process of trying this method but this method needs 4 PCs in total. 2 working and 2 to restore. I only have one N2 at the moment. I am using parts of this article to get to the point of changing the hard drive ID using shellshock. I will post my results if/when successful.

 

[nismopunch]

Might be a bit over my head, but if you have a working HDD/Dongle combo from a broken N2 and you put that HDD/Dongle on a known working N2 would this still work? I have read previously that it also would suicide being placed into a different N2 than the one it was originally installed on. I did read the posted articles, but as I mentioned got a little confused lol.

 

[freddiefiasco]

Yes it would still work. Just don't plug the hard drive into a Windows machine. Windows will write data to the MBR sector and cause it to suicide. It is possible to recover it if you do. You need to write zeroes to those sections to restore operation.

I plugged in the HDD and dongle for my WMMT3 kit into a WMMT3DX+ cab and it showed an error due to the GPU being different. I was able to plug in the existing GPU from my broken N2 and tried again and it loaded just fine. So if you ever come across this situation, the HDD, USB dongle and GPU combo is the bare minimum to make it work in a different N2. Every other component seems to be interchangeable.

In those articles, technicians tried to clone the drives using Windows and ended up suiciding each working drive.

 

[nismopunch]

Thank you @freddiefiasco for the layman's explanation haha. I've been interested in any WMMT version but the lack of info has made research a bit hard.

 

[freddiefiasco]

Thank you @freddiefiasco for the layman's explanation haha. I've been interested in any WMMT version but the lack of info has made research a bit hard.

I hear ya. Here's my opinion on why there is very little information on this system:
1. The dedicated folks that accessed this system discovered that most of the tricks they use carry over to the ES1/2/even 3.
2. The N2 is still being used and is probably still making money for some centers/vendors/etc.
2a. Repair requests are costly and still generate profit.
3. The N2 does not seem to offer many games so this makes it uncommon.
4. Information that is already available online exposes the system in such a way that it seems to be less challenging to find a different way. I could be wrong on this but this is just my opinion.
5. It's just not worth it to most people unless the system is popular or challenging enough to invest time documenting beyond what has already been done.

I'm learning as I go. I suck at documentation but I hope to share what I learn from this over time. This is actually my first WMMT3 console. So I can't do much testing until I am able to clone the drive and dump it properly to do some more curious testing. I'm sure it's already been dumped privately but I'm wanting to do it for my own accomplishment and maintenance of the game for future disaster. I don't have access to the WMMT3DX+ cabinet I used to verify the game is playable anymore so I have to wait until I am able to fix the only one I have. I have one capacitor left to replace but I don't have a Fry's or the Silicon Valley near by to just pick one up so I ordered from ebay instead.

WMMT1 & WMMT2 are on the Chihiro but even that console is rare/expensive/rareANDexpensive but you can at least netboot either one. If you're a Ridge Racer fan or Tokyo Racer you'll love WMMT series. If you've played Initial D, you'd probably stick with ID1 through ID8.

 

[nismopunch]

I'll be joining the learning as I go process as well. I love Initial D and have a few of the series for my ID3 twin, however i've always also been interested in WMMT as generally I haven't seen the game here. There is a 3DX plus in Pleasant Hill and San Jose I believe, but the Pleasant Hill one appears to have all card readers disabled so I haven't played much with it. The only Wangan Midnight I have spent time on was the PS3 version.

I've also looked at the older Chihiro versions, but I do not have a Chihiro and rarely see one for sale that isn't stupid expensive. I would like one eventually, but from what i've heard they aren't exactly reliable either. Cost would be more justifiable if it would last. I don't have first hand experience on this and just going from what i've heard from sega repair guys and other enthusiasts.

Due to that I am interested in learning about WMMT 3 and up, so thank you for taking the time to post info

 

[winteriscoming]

I would like one eventually, but from what i've heard they aren't exactly reliable either.

I have 2 Chihiros at the moment. I'm not aware of common reliability issues (not to say they don't exist), but I've had the one for a few years now without issues. It's basically an Xbox inside, so I would think it's decently reliable. I still have a few original Xboxes around that boot up fine whenever I have tried.

I like Chihiro for driving cabs because you get some solid titles:
Outrun 2 SP
WMMT 1/2
Crazy Taxi: High Roller

That's an easier buy for me than a motherboard with a single game. Each of those is a completely different experience that really gives you some well-rounded gameplay. At the moment, I like that lineup better than the more casual racers on the Lindbergh multikit. Sure the Lindbergh has ID4 and 5, but lacking a card reader really diminishes the experience for me. If I had to give one up, I'd give up the Lindbergh before the Chihiro, but that's just me.

I've really enjoyed WMMT 1 and 2. The nice thing about them vs. ID is that they still let you level up your car without a card reader installed. Sure, you lose progress when quitting, but it lets you feel like you're making progress better than ID.

I can't comment on WMMT3 and beyond as I've never played.

FYI: I've put together a card reader emulator for WMMT1/2 that I think would still work with 3, but have no way to test.

 

[freddiefiasco]

I would like one eventually, but from what i've heard they aren't exactly reliable either.

I have 2 Chihiros at the moment. I'm not aware of common reliability issues (not to say they don't exist), but I've had the one for a few years now without issues. It's basically an Xbox inside, so I would think it's decently reliable. I still have a few original Xboxes around that boot up fine whenever I have tried.

I like Chihiro for driving cabs because you get some solid titles:
Outrun 2 SP
WMMT 1/2
Crazy Taxi: High Roller

That's an easier buy for me than a motherboard with a single game. Each of those is a completely different experience that really gives you some well-rounded gameplay. At the moment, I like that lineup better than the more casual racers on the Lindbergh multikit. Sure the Lindbergh has ID4 and 5, but lacking a card reader really diminishes the experience for me. If I had to give one up, I'd give up the Lindbergh before the Chihiro, but that's just me.

I've really enjoyed WMMT 1 and 2. The nice thing about them vs. ID is that they still let you level up your car without a card reader installed. Sure, you lose progress when quitting, but it lets you feel like you're making progress better than ID.

I can't comment on WMMT3 and beyond as I've never played.

FYI: I've put together a card reader emulator for WMMT1/2 that I think would still work with 3, but have no way to test.

You definitely lose a lot without having card readers. I'm on the opposite end of that in choosing Lindbergh over Chihiro but that's very much because of the card reader. Without the card reader I would probably keep with the Naomi 2.

I should be able to test your emulator on WMMT3 in the near future.

 

[jugu]

I would like one eventually, but from what i've heard they aren't exactly reliable either.

I have 2 Chihiros at the moment. I'm not aware of common reliability issues (not to say they don't exist), but I've had the one for a few years now without issues. It's basically an Xbox inside, so I would think it's decently reliable. I still have a few original Xboxes around that boot up fine whenever I have tried.

Hopefully it's a little more reliable than an Xbox:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=857527

 

[nismopunch]

I would like one eventually, but from what i've heard they aren't exactly reliable either.

I have 2 Chihiros at the moment. I'm not aware of common reliability issues (not to say they don't exist), but I've had the one for a few years now without issues. It's basically an Xbox inside, so I would think it's decently reliable. I still have a few original Xboxes around that boot up fine whenever I have tried.

I like Chihiro for driving cabs because you get some solid titles:
Outrun 2 SP
WMMT 1/2
Crazy Taxi: High Roller

That's an easier buy for me than a motherboard with a single game. Each of those is a completely different experience that really gives you some well-rounded gameplay. At the moment, I like that lineup better than the more casual racers on the Lindbergh multikit. Sure the Lindbergh has ID4 and 5, but lacking a card reader really diminishes the experience for me. If I had to give one up, I'd give up the Lindbergh before the Chihiro, but that's just me.

I've really enjoyed WMMT 1 and 2. The nice thing about them vs. ID is that they still let you level up your car without a card reader installed. Sure, you lose progress when quitting, but it lets you feel like you're making progress better than ID.

I can't comment on WMMT3 and beyond as I've never played.

FYI: I've put together a card reader emulator for WMMT1/2 that I think would still work with 3, but have no way to test.

The convo with the Sega repair technician went something like this "What? You want a Chihiro? See that huge stack of PCBs over there? Those are all dead Chihiros with no hope of coming back! I hate those things!" He also hated the Lindbergh, but mine has been fine for the past year or so. Haha so that did put me off a little. Doesn't mean I wont jump on one but still.

I would love to be able to try the emulator someday. Just I do not have access to either system at the moment. I did pickup something related, but I'll post that elsewhere since this is for N2.