Midway Wolf conversions

Darksoft · Mar 21st 2017, 2:27pm

I was in a hack rage and made a quick pack with all games from this system hacked to work without security chip.

This will allow conversions and maybe *who knows* a multi.

Can someone please test them? They work on MAME but may not work on the real thing.....

mediafire.com/file/k28y53xe25j3ukv/MidwayWolfHacked.7z

jassin000 · Mar 21st 2017, 3:12pm

YES!!!

I can't wait to test these (Derick is sending me his eprom writer).
I want a multi... And, if I'm really daring I to dream, conversions of Midway T-Unit games (MK/MK2) to run on this hardware.

SEGASHIRO · Mar 21st 2017, 4:54pm

I like the sound of multi so I could get some MKIII, Rampage, and Open Ice action on.

nem · Mar 21st 2017, 5:12pm

There's also the Any U64 roms if for some reason these ones don't work on real HW:

forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?t=334749

That pack also includes WWF Wrestlemania.

I would test these, but my Wolf Unit board is having issues. I really should make a thread for that...

Darksoft · Mar 21st 2017, 5:20pm

Nice! Didnt know about that one. Posting the link here.
mediafire.com/download/ib5wgim…f_unit_any-u64rompack.zip

Mitsurugi-w · Mar 21st 2017, 7:13pm

Huh. I never even knew those existed.

xodaraP · Mar 21st 2017, 11:43pm

Oooo I could convert my spare UMK3 to Rampage or NBA Jam if I can get it fixed

Would definitely be in for a multi so I could play all 3 of those on one board.

twistedsymphony · Mar 22nd 2017, 4:01pm

Interesting. I have a few spare UMK3 boards.

Given the cost of these boards and the number of games I don't know how valuable a multi would be, it would make sense to just own 2 or 3 boards for the games you're interested in playing.

With that said does anyone know a good source for the EPROMs?

I know at least two of my boards use non-rewriteable chips.

Darksoft · Mar 22nd 2017, 4:25pm

twistedsymphony wrote:

Interesting. I have a few spare UMK3 boards.

Given the cost of these boards and the number of games I don't know how valuable a multi would be, it would make sense to just own 2 or 3 boards for the games you're interested in playing.

With that said does anyone know a good source for the ROMs?

I know at least two of my boards use non-rewriteable chips.

ROMS? Use Eproms better.

twistedsymphony · Mar 22nd 2017, 4:57pm

yes I meant EPROMS

jassin000 · Mar 22nd 2017, 4:58pm

I know the games aren't of high value, or even plentiful on the Wolf hardware...
But I for one would still enjoy a multi-kit, if for nothing else then to easily switch between RWT/UMK3.

Not to mention I've always been curious about NHL, having been a fan of the NBA Jams but never seeing one in real life (MAME only).

twistedsymphony · Mar 22nd 2017, 6:08pm

for those that are interested these are the chips used

at minimum you'll need 2x m27c4001 4Mb EPROMS, 100ns or faster
u54, u63: revision ROMS

and you'll need 20x m27c801 8Mb EPROMS, 100ns or faster
U2-U5: sound ROMS
u118-u33: graphics ROMS

some games will have an extra row (4x) of graphics roms that could be the 4Mb m27c4001 or the 8Mb m27c801:
u110-u113 or u114-u117: graphics roms

There is also a PIC16C57 security chip (u64), though I don't know how that factors into these conversions. (EDIT: Darksoft says to remove this; but leaving the old one in might work too)

as for which games use which EPROMS:
4-rows (16x 8Mb graphics roms):
2on2 open Ice Challenge: u118-u133
Rampage World Tour: u118-u133
WWF Wrestlemania: u118-u133

5-rows (16x 8Mb graphics roms + 4x 4Mb or 8Mb graphics roms):
Mortal Kombat 3: u114-u117 (4Mb), u118-u133 (8Mb)
NBA Hangtime: u110-u113 (8Mb), u118-u133 (8Mb)
NBA Maximum Hangtime: u110-u113 (8Mb), u118-u133 (8Mb)
Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3: u110-u113 (8Mb), u118-u133 (8Mb)

I pieced this together from posts on KLOV and looking through MAME source: github.com/mamedev/mame/blob/m…mame/drivers/midwunit.cpp

~~According to KLOV there are some PCB differences between the 4-row and 5-row games. the 4-row games have some extra timing hardware: forums.arcade-museum.com/showpost.php?p=2985878&postcount=21~~

According to that you can convert a 4-row PCB to a 5-row game, but you can't convert a 5-row pcb to a 4-row game. so MK and NBA games can only be converted to other MK and NBA games, but the other games can be converted to anything.

The missing components on the 5-row pcbs are an ST MK41T56 and a small crystal; I don't know if a 20chip pcb can be made to work with 16chip game by adding these parts. If anyone has one of these board can you see if you can determine what the crystal value is?

~~Please let me know if I got any details wrong.~~

~~EDIT: fixed EPROM information from this thread: forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?t=334749&page=3~~

The Above information isn't entirely accurate, i was thought that the difference between the 4 and 5 row games was the serial time keeper but that's not entirely correct and there are other difference between specific games. See this post for more details: Midway Wolf conversions

Darksoft · Mar 22nd 2017, 7:34pm

twistedsymphony wrote:

for those that are interested these are the chips used

for the most part you'll need 7x m27c0801 4MB EPROMS, 100ms or faster
u54, u63: revision ROMS, U2-U5: sound ROMS

and you'll need 16x or 20x (depending on the game) m27c4001 8MB EPROMS, 100ms or faster
u110-u33: graphics ROMS

There is also a PIC16C57 security chip (u64), though I don't know how that factors into these conversions.

as for which games use which EPROMS:
16x graphics roms:
2on2 open Ice Challenge: u118-u133
Rampage World Tour: u118-u133
WWF Wrestlemania: u118-u133

20x graphics roms:
Mortal Kombat 3: u114-u133
NBA Hangtime: u110-u113, u118-u133
NBA Maximum Hangtime:u110-u113, u118-u133
Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3: u110-u113, u118-u133

I pieced this together from posts on KLOV and looking through MAME source: github.com/mamedev/mame/blob/m…mame/drivers/midwunit.cpp

According to KLOV there are some PCB differences between the 16chip (4-row) and 20chip (5-row) games. the 16 chip games have some extra timing hardware: forums.arcade-museum.com/showpost.php?p=2985878&postcount=21

According to that you can convert a 16 chip PCB to a 20chip game, but you can't convert a 20 chip pcb to a 16chip game. so MK and NBA games can only be converted to other MK and NBA games, but the other games can be converted to any other.

The components are an ST MK41T56 and a small crystal; I don't know if a 20chip pcb can be made to work with 16chip game by adding these parts.

Please let me know if I got any details wrong.

thanks for info. Very detailed. Only one comment, I'm sure you meant 100ns instead of 100ms.

Cheers.

twistedsymphony · Mar 22nd 2017, 7:45pm

Darksoft wrote:

Only one comment, I'm sure you meant 100ns instead of 100ms.

indeed... fixed :thumbsup:

Maybe you can clarify what needs to be done with the security PIC?
can the original be left in place, or does something like a "zero pic" need to be flashed?

Darksoft · Mar 22nd 2017, 7:58pm

I only tried with keychip removed. I guess that if you leave a different one it still should work.

skate323k137 · Mar 22nd 2017, 8:12pm

twistedsymphony wrote:

for the most part you'll need 7x m27c0801 4MB EPROMS, 100ns or faster
u54, u63: revision ROMS, U2-U5: sound ROMS

and you'll need 16x or 20x (depending on the game) m27c4001 8MB EPROMS, 100ns or faster
u110-u33: graphics ROMS

27c4001 are 4Mbit arent they? and m27c0801 seems a bit odd, maybe a 27c4002 4 mbit, or 27c800 8mbit?

xodaraP · Mar 22nd 2017, 8:16pm

I know my UMK3 uses M27C801 EPROMs for the game data.... Quite a few of them..... I think I stripped off about 16 of them from a busted UMK3 and that wasn't including the mask ROMs which are still on the board

Are you sure about M27C4001 EPROMs?

skate323k137 · Mar 22nd 2017, 8:18pm

m27c801 makes way more sense. Still that's an 8mbit chip.

xodaraP · Mar 22nd 2017, 8:19pm

I'll check my working UMK3 but I'm positive there's about 12 mask ROMs on it along with 16-20 27C801 EPROMs

twistedsymphony · Mar 22nd 2017, 8:55pm

shit, did I get them backwards?

EDIT:
I found a thread that clarifies it: forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?t=247461&page=3

My confusion was that the graphics roms are mixed between 8Mb and 4Mb; some games with the extra row uses 4Mb on the extra row..

I've corrected the information in my post. Please re-check and let me know if I'm still getting it wrong

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