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biggestsonicfan

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Greetings!

I have been a fan of Sonic the Hedgehog for as long as I can remember, but the arcade beat-em-up Sonic the Fighters/Sonic Championship has always held a particularly special place in my heart.

I have been studying the i960 architecture that the Model2B hardware uses and managed to snag main board 837-10854-01 from a Virtual On machine with the Virtual On ROM board and chipset.

While I'm not exactly certain what I can do with this stand alone hardware in an non-arcade environment, but if anything it is a nice memento from my favorite game.

While getting a copy of Championship/Fighters running would be ideal on it, I am more interested in the documenting technical aspects of the individual chips and how they contribute to the hardware.

In my head I envision an custom rom board with programmable memory, but I am not familiar enough with the hardware to say it's even technically possible due to timing/clock issues.

That said, I hope to learn and contribute here when I can!

:thumbsup:
 
Welcome.

I know Biomech011 on KLOV has a Sonic Championship boardset if you have any specific question about it. I'm not sure if that game uses a security board but you might be able to ROM swap that VO board to make it a Sonic Championship. I'm sure there are others here who would be able to give you a more detailed answer.

Fun fact... this is one of the few games that has support for Sega's Versus Billboard system.
 
I actually found this forum though a post on your blog linking to your Arduino assembly of the Billboard system! It's the first time I have seen good footage of the lamps ever in use. The only other time I have seen them used is from a Japanese Fighting Vipers tournament promotional video, however I'm sure I could have seen cabs when I was younger and not realized they ran on the same hardware as my favorite game at the time. I'd love it if my rig ever got working with a Billboard compatible game to run with Billboard similar hardware!

I have a EEPROM location/jumper guide for Championship, but not for Fighters. I also have cabinet schematics Championship, but I'm not sure how much good that will do me either without the comm board and connector/wires. A cage would be nice too, but one investment at a time to building a dream.

EDIT: And thank you for the warm welcomes! I hope we all can learn a little more about how this particular variant of Sega hardware works a little better soon here in the future. =D
 
Very glad to hear that my blog is what brought you here :) This is a wonderful site.

A good guide for which ROMs go where is MAME source code, the MAME ROMs can also be used as the source when burning a new ROM set.
you can see this here: https://github.com/mamedev/mame/blob/master/src/mame/drivers/model2.cpp#L3938

it looks like they use the same exact mapping and the data is only different on 4 of the chips.


Once I get back to finishing my billboard emulator you should be able to make your own using an Arduino and a few additional parts.
 
Very glad to hear that my blog is what brought you here :) This is a wonderful site.

A good guide for which ROMs go where is MAME source code, the MAME ROMs can also be used as the source when burning a new ROM set.
you can see this here: https://github.com/mamedev/mame/blob/master/src/mame/drivers/model2.cpp#L3938

it looks like they use the same exact mapping and the data is only different on 4 of the chips.


Once I get back to finishing my billboard emulator you should be able to make your own using an Arduino and a few additional parts.
Still getting used to this board software. It's quite visually beautiful and I haven't used forums with such a clean interface in a long time... anyway...

Yes indeed! Honestly, I would like an Arduino to replace most components outside the main/rom boards due to ease of access and upgradability. I have seen your comm board pinout and am very thankful that with that and my schematics for the board, it may be possible to map the inputs to an interface or port I can plug a controller into, as I am not particularly interested in the cabinet itself. (Virtual ON weighed 1200+ lbs!)

I may have obtained another piece of useful hardware which may help me better understand the model2's software functions, which may help in understanding this hardware a little better.
 
When I think of Sonic, my mind always returns to what I consider to be the two finest games ever made...

Sonic 2 and Sonic CD!
 
When I think of Sonic, my mind always returns to what I consider to be the two finest games ever made...

Sonic 2 and Sonic CD!
You are speaking my language. It was between Sonic 1 and Sonic CD that I first discovered the blue hedgehog, so the hype for those two games, not to mention Sega's RADICAL and IN YOUR FACE advertising strategies anchored the love for iconic mascot. Sonic's 3D debut, while Sega was still dealing with things such as the 32X failing and the Saturn around the corner, was handled by AM2 after displaying a demo to the creator of Sonic his creation in Fighting Vipers (My avatar is the exact graphic if you select Sonic in the final FV ROM), and I just could not wait to see what 3D gaming looked like. Visiting the Ontario, California Gameworks, they had a Sonic Championship cabinet setup so I finally saw it in person when none of my friends had at the time. It felt awesome, and the game has since fascinated me.
 
Welcome @biggestsonicfan! Your interest represents a unique lens into the hobby. Will be very interesting to see your contributions in the future. Welcome again!
 
I know it's a weird title but I've always been a huge fan of Sonic Spinball. That and Eternal Champions were the two reasons I re-bought a Genesis years later just to play them again.
 
Welcome @[u]@biggestsonicfan[/u]! Your interest represents a unique lens into the hobby. Will be very interesting to see your contributions in the future. Welcome again!
Knowing what I know now, I wish it were possible to time travel to Japanese arcades in the mid to late 90's. I developed a love for Street Fighter, nearly as obsessively as my Sonic obsession, later in life and felt the scene has overshadowed the lost and forgotten fighting games of the Model2 era. There is a reason Yu Suzuki has won special awards. If I had the money, I would have Kickstarted the Shenmue III dinner and would have asked intensely about his time with the Model2 hardware, which in other interviews he has stated was a nightmare of new technology and software/hardware errors galore which lead to the final product. The history of the texture mapping technology Yu Suzuki acquired for Sega is a fascinating read if you have some time.
 
I have seen your comm board pinout and am very thankful that with that and my schematics for the board
I think you're thinking of the "Filter board" which is the PCB that sits perpendicular to the rest of the board and provides all of the inputs and outputs. there's one on ebay now: http://www.ebay.com/itm/SEGA-MODEL-...235590?hash=item2336ae1c86:g:4qkAAOxyYSdTDP~B (though this appears to be missing the network ports, if that's something important to you)

the "comm board" is actually a completely different board, the long skinny one that sits next to the ROM board, this enables network play between Model 2 units. If you've got an original VO boardset it should have the comm board, unless someone removed it.


it may be possible to map the inputs to an interface or port I can plug a controller into
once you've got yourself a filterboard you'll want to pick up a Model 2 to JAMMA harness (like this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sega-origin...027342?hash=item3616ef7b0e:g:29EAAOSwCkZZPjgr) and then you should be able to use the Model 2 board on a "Super Gun" which is a device that lets you play JAMMA games on a TV with controllers. usually they'll include NeoGeo or Sega Saturn controller ports or something else depending on who made it.

The most difficult part will be the video output from the Model 2, it uses "Medium Resolution" which is lower resolution than VGA, so it wont work on most computer monitors, but it's higher resolution than most RGB sources so it may not be supported by some Superguns or old RGB monitors.


I am not particularly interested in the cabinet itself. (Virtual ON weighed 1200+ lbs!)
I have a Virtual On Twin unit and I've moved it up and down stairs and loaded/unloaded it from trucks so I know how much it weighs (actually slightly below 1100). But you wouldn't want one of these to play Sonic Championship anyway, Also these cabinets don't even include a billboard unit. the Billboard were only on the Versus City version of Virtual On. which are substantial smaller and lighter and would be the perfect way to play Sonic Championship if you were so inclined.
 
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Thank you so much for your direction! Both items purchased, as I do not know when they will next appear online by themselves!
The most difficult part will be the video output from the Model 2, it uses "Medium Resolution" which is lower resolution than VGA, so it wont work on most computer monitors, but it's higher resolution than most RGB sources so it may not be supported by some Superguns or old RGB monitors.
My documents show the following for the RGB wiring. I also have some old screenshots from a Japanese geocities "shrine" page back in the day of a StF setup running on a NeoGeo Supergun I believe. I will have to see if I can find those.

Also I was kidding about putting the game in the Virtual ON cab. :)
 

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Welcome @[u]@biggestsonicfan[/u]! Your interest represents a unique lens into the hobby. Will be very interesting to see your contributions in the future. Welcome again!
Knowing what I know now, I wish it were possible to time travel to Japanese arcades in the mid to late 90's. I developed a love for Street Fighter, nearly as obsessively as my Sonic obsession, later in life and felt the scene has overshadowed the lost and forgotten fighting games of the Model2 era. There is a reason Yu Suzuki has won special awards. If I had the money, I would have Kickstarted the Shenmue III dinner and would have asked intensely about his time with the Model2 hardware, which in other interviews he has stated was a nightmare of new technology and software/hardware errors galore which lead to the final product. The history of the texture mapping technology Yu Suzuki acquired for Sega is a fascinating read if you have some time.
If you ever pull it off, the time travel thing that is, strongly hint to Sega two things.........include native DVD playback in the Saturn's successor and don't worry about mil-CD support. Could you imagine how different the landscape of gaming would have been with just that?
 
If you ever pull it off, the time travel thing that is, strongly hint to Sega two things.........include native DVD playback in the Saturn's successor and don't worry about mil-CD support. Could you imagine how different the landscape of gaming would have been with just that?
I can only imagine how the console wars would have turned out. Would Sony have dominated that generation? Would Microsoft even enter the home console market? Interesting stuff to think about.
 
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After a bit of radio silence, parts have been arriving and I have begun to process all the tools and assets I have on hand for this kind of SuperGun. I want to know what I can potentially use for this project vs what I actually need to scavenge for/creating myself.

And while I can't make any kind of guarantee that it will work, I have in my physical possession what I would consider to be an extremely rare piece of Model2 history, hardware-wise. Albeit it isn't directly a product that ever touched anything related to Sega, the hardware I have obtained I am almost certainly is the same development hardware used to develop the Model2 mainboard and create Model2 programs/games/ROMs/EEPROMs. I have an Intel QT960KB development board, complete with most up-to the date software, full manuals, and source code on 5 1/4 inch diskette floppies. The software loaded on the hardware is also similarly dated during the Model2's lifecycle, and it is also the higher end software (source code included!) loaded onto it. I did some digging into where this hardware originated from and due to certain labels on the box and some internet archives, it seems the hardware came from a security research firm who mainly dealt with reverse engineering to recover incriminating evidence from things like computers and phones for court cases. The processor used in the Model2 hardware was also commonly used in some printers (and possibly copiers?) of the same era, and I can imagine this hardware I have was used to find exploits in those printers to either tap into the spool/firmware to keep/recover printed data. I will take some nice pictures once I have a clean area to do so!


Welcome!
Thanks!
 
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picture please!
I do not wish to take this out of the box too frequently due to it's rarity/fragility until I have a proper, secure housing for it, as I do not think I will be coming across another one of these any time soon.

5min of dusting with an anti-static brush and bad cell phone shots. Better pics will happen once I clean up my work area more.

 
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