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Konami PCB Conversions possible?

this is pretty epic @twistedsymphony, TMNT2 is pretty much the last game on my (current) want-list. Guess i'm gonna have to keep a lookout for Quiz now, and give this a shot!
 
Quiz is pretty cheap, but it's not very common at all... I think you'll find availability and not price is the barrier here.
Which is the inverse of TMNT2... IE lots of people have one (myself included) but we want 450$+ for it. :P
 
Darksoft said:
so which other games can we convert a Quiz Gakumon Pcb into?
I mean without having to hack the roms.
Click to expand...
without hacking the roms? probably none.

Quiz Gakumon and TMNT2 uses the same PCB and the same konami custom chips. based on what Kuze said it sounds like Konami had extra TMNT2 PCBs laying around and did a factory conversion to Quiz Gakumon, which is likely the only reason they're the same.

Sunset Riders is very similar. but it uses a "054358" custom that is not on the TMNT2/QG PCB
Twin Bee is a similar situation but it uses a "054000" custom that is not on the TMNT2/QG PCB

the only other potential that I can see is Lighting Fighters Since it doesn't need any additional chips that aren't on TMNT2/QG

you can see the different customs used here: https://github.com/mamedev/mame/blob/master/src/mame/video/konamiic.txt

however, we don't know if these PCBs are wired differently, so while the board might have all the right hardware it still may not work correctly.
 
twistedsymphony said:
however, we don't know if these PCBs are wired differently, so while the board might have all the right hardware it still may not work correctly.
Click to expand...
The (lacking a better term) "Sunset" PCBs themselves are identical, all the same wiring is present in all games/versions, however the population of custom chips is radically different.

Without hacking the roms? NONE! No probably about it! ;)

This is what I've been trying to say... Without ROM hacking, this board family CAN'T be considered practical for conversions in any real/meaningful way.
 
jassin000 said:
Quiz is pretty cheap, but it's not very common at all... I think you'll find availability and not price is the barrier here.
Click to expand...
Exactly. I do some pretty generic searches (like "sega" and "konami") on YAJ daily. I started looking for a QG PCB after I started this thread, and a few weeks later one popped up. I was the only bidder and as I said it went for $40 with artwork. I haven't seen another one come up since.

There's a guy from Mexico on eBay that is selling converted PCBs at original prices. I'd suspect people like him have bought up most of what was out there. I get the impression that they don't tend to produce a lot of these quiz games. As it is it seems like Konami just made something cheap and easy to get rid of their TMNT2 PCB stock.
 
At one point one of the PCB shops had a dozen or so of these lying around iirc. The original guy that had the PALs dumped from Turtles in Time bought them up and offered conversions super cheap to his buddies and the NG forum at like $30/pop converted. That's how I found out this was possible and I barely missed getting one from him.

Then someone else (not sure who) bought up all of the remaining stock out there, it seems, so there is only a trickle on YAJ from time to time.

Eventually I was able to source one myself off YAJ for 2000 yen plus shipping. I've seen them go as high as 8k yen.
 
jassin000 said:
the population of custom chips is radically different.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't say it's "radically" different.

Here is TMNT2: https://www.arcade-museum.com/images/106/1061189256.jpg
Here is SSR: https://www.arcade-museum.com/images/106/1061148318.jpg


SSR is missing the ROMs in the 3k and 7k positions, which is fine.

then you'll notice the 3 smaller chips in the top right of the PCB.

TMNT has 2 customs up there with the 3rd slot empty

SSR has the first two slots empty with a different custom in the 3rd slot.


I know at least one of the chips on TMNT2 is for protection, but I'm not sure what the second chip does or what the custom on SSR does.
 
I know one of the customs helps with math for scaling and rotational effects, and that it can never be hacked out...
As TMNT2 uses this, most notably when throwing foot soldiers towards the screen.
 
jassin000 said:
I know one of the customs helps with math for scaling and rotational effects, and that it can never be hacked out...
As TMNT2 uses this, most notably when throwing foot soldiers towards the screen.
Click to expand...
ok, so the two customs on TMNT2/QG are for protection and scaling/rotation... that just leaves the question as to what the custom on SSR does.

that custom is also used on Asterix, but that looks to be the only other game that uses it.
 
twistedsymphony said:
As it is it seems like Konami just made something cheap and easy to get rid of their TMNT2 PCB stock.
Click to expand...
This was common practice for many arcade companies. They sunk a lot of money into the hardware and wanted to recouped as much money as possible when gearing up for other projects. I was reading some old Capcom dev interviews and they talked about it. Though, apparently some companies did have old kits sit around for ages, untouched. Through a series of interesting connections, in 2004 I purchased an Osman kit directly from Mitchell. Amazing seeing something addressed directly to me from them:


(the $15 on the customs label was not what I actually paid, but I did get an amazing deal ^^ )

I don't believe Mitchell ever designed their own hardware (in this case, they used a Data East PCB), so perhaps they were able to buy aging hardware from Data East at a discount, as they likely did late in the life of CPS2.
-ud
 
jassin000 said:
Without hacking the roms? NONE! No probably about it! ;)

This is what I've been trying to say... Without ROM hacking, this board family CAN'T be considered practical for conversions in any real/meaningful way.
Click to expand...
This sounds like an arcade project to me :)
 
This is awesome. Well done with the conversion.

I'm not even going to say how much I paid for my two TMNT PCBs and TMNT 2, since it would be mean. Lets just say that prices have gone up in the last few years and I wouldn't be able to own them in the current market. I wish I could go back in time and grab the Simpsons, but that train has passed.
 
SmokeMonster said:
I wish I could go back in time and grab the Simpsons, but that train has passed.
Click to expand...
My buddy found a glitched Simpsons for cheap, one of the custom sprite gen chips was bad...
He then hot air pulled it, and replaced it with another sprite gen from a (50$) Martial Champions.

Despite having different markings and numbers on the chips, the swap was a total success!
c22SJT3.jpg


I ended up with a stoopid good deal! :)
XRiTxzY.jpg
 
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jassin000 said:
My buddy found a glitched Simpsons for cheap, one of the custom sprite gen chips was bad...He then hot air pulled it, and replaced it with another sprite gen from a (50$) Martial Champions.
Click to expand...
And not a single tear was shed. Martial Champions is such rubbish. I'm almost positive that's the lowest price PCB I've ever owned (less than $20, shipped) and even the crazy low price was not enough to convince me to keep it.

tl;dr - Finally! A good use for Martial Champions! :D
-ud
 
does anyone have a sunset riders board that could post the 05xxxx number on the audio custom?
 
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