PCE Super SD System 3 (Why I don't like it)

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    • PCE Super SD System 3 (Why I don't like it)

      So first the project, which was announced at my favorite website BTW (unofficially problem #1). :P

      Now on to the design and really the point of me making this post...

      Its using a built-in System card, loading both Hucard ROMs as well as the CD Boot ROMs and CD game data.
      Why I don't like it; I don't want to use custom System card/hacked system cards, I'm only looking for a ODE here.
      I have all three system cards and a Everdrive already, don't need this functionality at all and is in fact preventing the use of original system cards.

      It supplies RGB amplification and output.
      Why I don't like it; My console is already RGB modified this adds nothing for me whatsoever.
      If anything it's likely going to interfere with the onboard amp I've already installed, so I would have to open my console and remove it.

      Also why a 8pin Genesis style din output? Just so you can use Genesis RGB cables?
      But most Genesis RGB cables have sync strippers built-in (because xRGB mini/PVM/BVM needs one to work with Genesis) PCE needs no stripper to work with xRGB mini/PVM/BVM/OSSC.
      Not to mention 8pin mini din has become the preferred connector for RGB when SCART isn't viable, look at the xRGB mini and HAS, it's using 8-pin mini din for a reason.

      I've been waiting for Duncan's ODE, and well after reading about this new devices it seems nothing has changed in that department.
      IMO Duncan understands what I'm really looking for... A ODE, nothing more, nothing less.
      His design still requires the original IFU30 for fucks sake, you are only replacing the CDROM it can't be anymore of a ODE than that.

      No this S-SD-S3 thingie isn't a ODE, but a full hardware emulator.
      Maybe it will suit some of you perfectly, but this is a let down for me... Features I don't care about, in exchange for limitations on the features I do (care about).
      Darksoft: CPS3, CPS2, F3, MVS
      RGB: RECO v2, HAS v3
      invzim: Jammafier v1.6b
      XianXi: JNX Raiden, SC Taito Classic, SC Sega System 16/24
      Frank_fjs: JAMMA Extender (Special Edition)
    • Hopefully Duncan's will get his design finished - more options are always good. And hopefully the competition for said ODE will encourage Duncan to increase his production runs. FWIW, I thought it was strange that Duncan's design required the IFU30.

      In my case, I have a SuperGrafx and the TurboDuo, so the TO product was a good solution for my setup.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by ShootTheCore ().

    • jassin000 wrote:



      Its using a built-in System card, loading both Hucard ROMs as well as the CD Boot ROMs and CD game data.
      Why I don't like it; I don't want to use custom System card/hacked system cards, I'm only looking for a ODE here.
      I have all three system cards and a Everdrive already, don't need this functionality at all and is in fact preventing the use of original system cards.

      It supplies RGB amplification and output.
      Why I don't like it; My console is already RGB modified this adds nothing for me whatsoever.
      If anything it's likely going to interfere with the onboard amp I've already installed, so I would have to open my console and remove it.

      Also why a 8pin Genesis style din output? Just so you can use Genesis RGB cables?
      But most Genesis RGB cables have sync strippers built-in (because xRGB mini/PVM/BVM needs one to work with Genesis) PCE needs no stripper to work with xRGB mini/PVM/BVM/OSSC.
      Not to mention 8pin mini din has become the preferred connector for RGB when SCART isn't viable, look at the xRGB mini and HAS, it's using 8-pin mini din for a reason.

      A few comments on these parts of your post.

      There is nothing wrong with having the HuCard functionality built in. It's one less thing you need. If you don't own an Arcade Card, then this is a plus for that. It allows you to finally use the Arcade Card without having an Arcade Card because they are stupidly priced for the 1 game you might want to play. Keep in mind the Everdrive does not support Arcade Card usage either.

      Not everyone has RGB modified consoles. Many people use the external adapters like the dbGrafx Booster or have their Interface Unit or CD Dock RGB modified. This offers them the ability to still have great video output.

      The Genesis port is the 9pin mini-DIN not the 8pin DIN. The advantage of the 9pin is that it is readily available, supports stereo and mono audio, csync, and composite video. It has everything that someone may want in a single connector.

      The 8pin mini-DIN is definitely not the preferred connector. Just because the xRGB Mini and the HAS use it, doesn't make it the preferred. The 9pin Mini-DIN or the 8pin DIN are actually more popular overall, especially in the PC-Engine world.

      Genesis cables SHOULD NOT have sync strippers in them. They are not needed and if you are using one, quite frankly you are doing it wrong. The Genesis outputs TTL csync. By adding a 470ohm resistor and 220uf 16v capacitor on the sync line, you get 75ohm csync and everything is perfect. This has been known for quite some time. Additionally, the PCE csync line should be buffered for proper usage, but most commonly on cheap amps, it is not.

      Last comment, this should not affect your already RGB modded console at all. If your amp is built correctly, then being tapped into the same signals won't hurt anything.

      It sounds like you aren't the target market and that's fine. More for the people that are interested.
      For mod work and questions email us at mobiusstriptech@gmail.com

      Twitter: @Mobiusstriptech

      Youtube: MobiusStripTech

      Website: mobiusstriptechnologies.com/
    • jassin000 wrote:

      Its using a built-in System card, loading both Hucard ROMs as well as the CD Boot ROMs and CD game data.
      Why I don't like it; I don't want to use custom System card/hacked system cards, I'm only looking for a ODE here.
      I have all three system cards and a Everdrive already, don't need this functionality at all and is in fact preventing the use of original system cards.
      The NeoSD team actually announced today that you can disable this and use your own System Cards and HuCards if you would like.
      For mod work and questions email us at mobiusstriptech@gmail.com

      Twitter: @Mobiusstriptech

      Youtube: MobiusStripTech

      Website: mobiusstriptechnologies.com/
    • Mobiusstriptech wrote:

      jassin000 wrote:

      Its using a built-in System card, loading both Hucard ROMs as well as the CD Boot ROMs and CD game data.
      Why I don't like it; I don't want to use custom System card/hacked system cards, I'm only looking for a ODE here.
      I have all three system cards and a Everdrive already, don't need this functionality at all and is in fact preventing the use of original system cards.

      It supplies RGB amplification and output.
      Why I don't like it; My console is already RGB modified this adds nothing for me whatsoever.
      If anything it's likely going to interfere with the onboard amp I've already installed, so I would have to open my console and remove it.

      Also why a 8pin Genesis style din output? Just so you can use Genesis RGB cables?
      But most Genesis RGB cables have sync strippers built-in (because xRGB mini/PVM/BVM needs one to work with Genesis) PCE needs no stripper to work with xRGB mini/PVM/BVM/OSSC.
      Not to mention 8pin mini din has become the preferred connector for RGB when SCART isn't viable, look at the xRGB mini and HAS, it's using 8-pin mini din for a reason.
      A few comments on these parts of your post.

      There is nothing wrong with having the HuCard functionality built in. It's one less thing you need. If you don't own an Arcade Card, then this is a plus for that. It allows you to finally use the Arcade Card without having an Arcade Card because they are stupidly priced for the 1 game you might want to play. Keep in mind the Everdrive does not support Arcade Card usage either.

      Not everyone has RGB modified consoles. Many people use the external adapters like the dbGrafx Booster or have their Interface Unit or CD Dock RGB modified. This offers them the ability to still have great video output.

      The Genesis port is the 9pin mini-DIN not the 8pin DIN. The advantage of the 9pin is that it is readily available, supports stereo and mono audio, csync, and composite video. It has everything that someone may want in a single connector.

      The 8pin mini-DIN is definitely not the preferred connector. Just because the xRGB Mini and the HAS use it, doesn't make it the preferred. The 9pin Mini-DIN or the 8pin DIN are actually more popular overall, especially in the PC-Engine world.

      Genesis cables SHOULD NOT have sync strippers in them. They are not needed and if you are using one, quite frankly you are doing it wrong. The Genesis outputs TTL csync. By adding a 470ohm resistor and 220uf 16v capacitor on the sync line, you get 75ohm csync and everything is perfect. This has been known for quite some time. Additionally, the PCE csync line should be buffered for proper usage, but most commonly on cheap amps, it is not.

      Last comment, this should not affect your already RGB modded console at all. If your amp is built correctly, then being tapped into the same signals won't hurt anything.

      It sounds like you aren't the target market and that's fine. More for the people that are interested.
      So if I have an RGB modded IFU I can use that to output rather than the one on the System 3
    • swisstoni wrote:

      So if I have an RGB modded IFU I can use that to output rather than the one on the System 3
      No you won't be able to use the IFU with this. You will have to take your PC Engine or Core Grafx out of the IFU because this plugs directly into the expansion connector.
      For mod work and questions email us at mobiusstriptech@gmail.com

      Twitter: @Mobiusstriptech

      Youtube: MobiusStripTech

      Website: mobiusstriptechnologies.com/
    • Milspex wrote:

      I have a supergrafx with a Everdrive and a dbgrafxbooster expansion.

      If this device delivers the same hi quality rgb output I am very interested in trying it out.

      It outputs ttl sync though I believe
      It does and the dbGrafxBooster offers either TTL or 75ohm. All you need is a standard Genesis 2 RGB cable to use this. Any cable made in the last 2 years should have a 470ohm resistor and 220uf 16v cap on the sync line, which will get you your 75ohm csync.
      For mod work and questions email us at mobiusstriptech@gmail.com

      Twitter: @Mobiusstriptech

      Youtube: MobiusStripTech

      Website: mobiusstriptechnologies.com/
    • You are all set then. RetroGamingCables uses the correct components on the sync line. I have had a few of them in my shop and opened them up to verify.
      For mod work and questions email us at mobiusstriptech@gmail.com

      Twitter: @Mobiusstriptech

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    • I really wish the team would have focused on a device no one has yet tried to make.
      Namely some things on my wishlist like a SegaCD ODE for starters.

      No one has attempted to make one, yet we have two PCE ODE projects and two MVS/AES projects from this team.
      Nothing wrong with competition at all, I'm just saying I would rather new areas of exploration and original ideas/projects no one has yet attempted.

      Good news about the Hucard options, I do love options.
      Still not happy about the RGB, but again this device really isn't for someone like me.

      My xRGB mini would roll with a pure sync line Genesis btw, the OSSC is fine without a stripper.
      However a good share of the premade Genesis cables sold DO include a LM1881 stripper in the SCART hood.
      Darksoft: CPS3, CPS2, F3, MVS
      RGB: RECO v2, HAS v3
      invzim: Jammafier v1.6b
      XianXi: JNX Raiden, SC Taito Classic, SC Sega System 16/24
      Frank_fjs: JAMMA Extender (Special Edition)

      The post was edited 1 time, last by jassin000 ().

    • I think a key part of what you said is "attempted". There have been attempts at a PCE ODE, no one has released one yet that has this functionality. You also have to consider, they are a company that is trying to make a profit. Do you make a product for a console that isn't as popular and might sell a few units, but will also be expensive. Or do you make a product for a console that is popular, has a need, and will actually sell?

      Here's the problem with the Sega CD. You have a handful of games that are worth playing, literally. Replicating the entire console is far more involved than replicating the CD unit of the PCE. Now the other option would be replicating just the Optical portion of the Sega CD, however, you now have to deal with 2 extremely different designs and it requires your consumer base to own said device. Creating an ODE in this way would be simpler, if you chose to just replace the laser assembly portion and said, "we are only going to make something for the model 2." The problem is, the model 1 people would be angry and you still need people to want to pay ~$150US to play Sonic CD.

      The ODEs for the Dreamcast and Saturn make sense from a consumer base. Both have a large following, both have laser issues, both only had a CD drive for playing the games.
      For mod work and questions email us at mobiusstriptech@gmail.com

      Twitter: @Mobiusstriptech

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    • I understand, and who knows maybe I'll buy another Core Grafix just to use with this device.
      In my mind this device might as well have just use a SOC (system on a chip) and sidestepped the need for a PCEngine console altogether (it's like 90% of the way to that already aka no system cards, no interface, no cdrom and does its own RGB output).
      Darksoft: CPS3, CPS2, F3, MVS
      RGB: RECO v2, HAS v3
      invzim: Jammafier v1.6b
      XianXi: JNX Raiden, SC Taito Classic, SC Sega System 16/24
      Frank_fjs: JAMMA Extender (Special Edition)
    • Sure. That's obviously an option too. Just go the way of the Nt Mini or the Super Nt. The only downside to that is purists won't be into it, but some purists won't even be into this. Hardware simulation is always a tricky subject because people have very strong opinions on their way of enjoying something.
      For mod work and questions email us at mobiusstriptech@gmail.com

      Twitter: @Mobiusstriptech

      Youtube: MobiusStripTech

      Website: mobiusstriptechnologies.com/
    • DecepticonZero wrote:

      Does anyone have any more info on "Duncan's ODE"?
      It's still being developed, details have been sparse these past two years.
      For me the selling point is his design only replaces the CDROM, you are still required to have all (Console, interface, system cards) hardware.
      Darksoft: CPS3, CPS2, F3, MVS
      RGB: RECO v2, HAS v3
      invzim: Jammafier v1.6b
      XianXi: JNX Raiden, SC Taito Classic, SC Sega System 16/24
      Frank_fjs: JAMMA Extender (Special Edition)
    • jassin000 wrote:



      No this S-SD-S3 thingie isn't a ODE, but a full hardware emulator.
      Maybe it will suit some of you perfectly, but this is a let down for me... Features I don't care about, in exchange for limitations on the features I do (care about).
      You have no idea WTF you are talking about.


      It is NOT a full hardware emulator. If it was, then the internal video system on a PCE wouldn't work.

      As it is, if you use the Super SD System 3 with a PCE and plug in a video cable to your PCE, you will get full video. However it will be missing CD audio. This is the EXACT same behavior as what happens when you use something like a Super CDROM2 with a PCE.
    • Yodd wrote:

      It is NOT a full hardware emulator.
      Ok so it's NOT a full emulator... But wouldn't you agree it's more than a ODE?

      Yodd wrote:

      You have no idea WTF you are talking about.
      Just as pleasant as I remember you.
      Darksoft: CPS3, CPS2, F3, MVS
      RGB: RECO v2, HAS v3
      invzim: Jammafier v1.6b
      XianXi: JNX Raiden, SC Taito Classic, SC Sega System 16/24
      Frank_fjs: JAMMA Extender (Special Edition)

      The post was edited 1 time, last by jassin000 ().

    • jassin000 wrote:

      Yodd wrote:

      It is NOT a full hardware emulator.
      Ok so it's NOT a full emulator... But wouldn't you agree it's more than a ODE?

      No. It emulates the optical drive, system cards (optional) and Hucards. The FPGA hardware only serves to duplicate these functions. The RGB and video output even comes from the PCE and not generated by FPGA.


      All video and wavetable/chip audio work is still done by the PCE just like it would with any PCE+CD combo.


      So, the better question is: why are you convinced that it's some kind of full hardware emulator??