Sega Model 2 / 3 hacked romsets?

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    • twistedsymphony wrote:

      Apocalypse wrote:

      Anyone with a spare encrypted Model2/Model3 game (supported in MAME obviously)?
      I have a Model 3 VOT 5.2A ROM board/security board I could let you borrow, but I'd need it back when you're done. took me quite a while and cost me quite a bit to obtain it in the first place.

      Can you post a picture of it so we can check if it is needed in mame or not?
    • Muchi Muchi Spork wrote:

      Can you post a picture of it so we can check if it is needed in mame or not?
      it's in MAME. I know because I ripped it and submitted it myself back when I got this board :D
      "Information wants to be free"
      VOOT | RFM | Kraylix V3 | FiF Jr. | KI2 | UMK3 | E29 | E29| TOTD | DDR
      Follow my projects on Instagram: instagram.com/twistedchu

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    • So I was thinking about this a bit more today and was looking at the game list for Model 2.

      From what I understand you can't interchange ROMs between Model 2/2A/2B/2C PCB sets, however there were a number of games that were released on more than 1 hardware version so there are ROM sets available for each supported hardware version.

      Kicking out games with specialized cabinets (like racing games, gun games, an other weird games like top skate and rail chase) and leaving in games that could be played on a candy cab with an appropriate panel (like Virtual on and Dynamite baseball) we're left with this:

      Dead or Alive (2A or 2B)
      Dynamite Baseball (2B only)
      Dynamite Baseball 97 (2B only)

      Dynamite Cop/Dynamite Deka 2 (2A or 2B or 2C)
      Fighting Vipers (2B only)
      Last Bronx (2B only)

      Pilot Kids (2A or 2B)
      Sonic Championship/Sonic the Fighters (2B only)
      Virtua Fighter 2 (2A only)
      Virtua Fighter 2.1 (2A only)

      Virtua Striker (2B only)
      Virtual On (2B only)

      Zero Gunner (2A or 2B)

      the "Model 2" and "Model 2C" hardware are nothing but specialized games, and so all of the standard-cab-capable games all fall under "Model 2A" and "Model 2B". not only that but the only game here without a Model 2B ROM release is Virtua Fighter 2.

      As I understand it, of those games that have ROMs for more than one hardware version, the asset ROMs are the same and it's only the program ROMs that are different. I wonder if a game like Dynamite Cop that has ROM versions for 2A, 2B, and 2C could be used as a template for converting Virtua Fighter 2's program ROMs to Model 2B hardware... While still a small game list it would get all of the "playable" games on one hardware platform.

      For the sake of completeness these are the other Model 2 games:

      Driving Control Games:
      • Daytona USA (2)
      • Indy 500 (2B)
      • Manx TT Superbike (2A)
      • Motor Raid (2A)
      • Over Rev (2B or 2C)
      • Sega Rally Championship (2A)
      • Sega Touring Car Championship (2C)
      • Super GT 24h (2B)
      • Wave Runner (2C)
      CRT Light Gun Games:
      • House of the Dead (2C)
      • Virtua Cop (2)
      • Virtua Cop 2 (2A)


      Mounted Gun/Analog Trigger Stick Games
      (IMO These are the next most likely to be played in a standard Cab):
      • Behind Enemy Lines (2C)
      • Gunblade NY (2B)
      • Rail Chase 2 (2B)
      • Sky Target (2A)


      "Other" Control Type games:
      • Desert Tank (2)
      • Royal Ascot II (2C)
      • Sega Ski Super G (2C)
      • Sega Water Ski (2C)
      • Top Skater (2C)
      "Information wants to be free"
      VOOT | RFM | Kraylix V3 | FiF Jr. | KI2 | UMK3 | E29 | E29| TOTD | DDR
      Follow my projects on Instagram: instagram.com/twistedchu

      Buy my 3D Printed Parts: bit-district.com

      The post was edited 1 time, last by twistedsymphony ().

    • Very good analysis!

      I tought about this some time ago and reached similar conclusions. Converting games that are available in more than one version.

      AFAIR it was just a memory mapping / allocation difference.

      So what would be the goal here? Convert games from model 2 to any of the revisions?
      * Arcade-projects, the site where you get the most of your arcade games.
      * If you want Drama go to Neo-Geo forum ---Darksoft
    • Darksoft wrote:

      So what would be the goal here? Convert games from model 2 to any of the revisions?
      I think if a ROM conversion tool could be made that would be extremely useful. Especially since Model 2 hardware tends to have a high failure rate on some of the irreplaceable customs. If nothing else, such a tool would allow you to play a dead game on a different hardware revision.

      this would also make a multi more viable since without this ability there is no single hardware revision that could play all relevant games.
      "Information wants to be free"
      VOOT | RFM | Kraylix V3 | FiF Jr. | KI2 | UMK3 | E29 | E29| TOTD | DDR
      Follow my projects on Instagram: instagram.com/twistedchu

      Buy my 3D Printed Parts: bit-district.com
    • makes sense. The initial goal was to create romsets that don't need the security pcbs but of course if we could create romsets for each revision be it 2,2A,2B or 2C would be awesome.

      Same applies to model 3.
      * Arcade-projects, the site where you get the most of your arcade games.
      * If you want Drama go to Neo-Geo forum ---Darksoft
    • Darksoft wrote:

      Same applies to model 3.
      Model 3 has Step 1.0, Step 1.5, Step 2.0 and Step 2.1
      It's my understanding that they all use the same CPU and ROM boards but Step 1 and 1.5 each have unique GPU boards. From what I understand Step 2.0 and step 2.1 are functionally the same and any game for one you can play on the other. (Someone correct me if I'm wrong here).

      With that in mind the non-special cab games look like this:

      Fighting Vipers 2 (S2.x)
      Spike Out (S2.x)
      Spike Out Final Edition (S2.x)

      Virtua Fighter 3 (S1.0)
      Virtua Fighter 3tb (S1.0)

      Virtua Striker 2 (S1.5 or S2.x)
      Virtua Striker 2 98 (S1.5 or S2.x)
      Virtua Striker 2 99 (S1.5 or S2.x)

      Virtua Strikers 2 99.1 (S2.x)
      Virtual On OT 5.2 (S2.x)
      Virtual On OT 5.4 (S2.x)


      So for Model 3 the list of "playable" games is much much smaller and again Virtua Fighter finds itself on the odd hardware. Unlike Model 2 though there doesn't seem to be any game that was released on both Step 1.0 and Step 1.5, though most of the Virtua Strikers were on both 1.5 and 2.0.

      Looking at Model 2 there are 5 fighting games, 2 SHMUPs, a Beat 'em up, Baseball, Soccer, and Virtual On.
      Model 3 by comparison has 2 fighting games, 1 Beat 'em up, Soccer, and Virtual On So it makes for a much less attractive Multi.

      Model 3 however would be a desirable multi for Racing game enthusiasts as the non-standard game list looks like this:

      Driving Control Games
      • Daytona USA 2 (S2.x)
      • Daytona USA 2 Power Edition (S2.x)
      • Dirt Devils (S2.x)
      • Emergency Call Ambulance (S2.x)
      • HD LA Riders (S2.x)
      • Le Mans 24 (S1.5)
      • SCUD Race (S1.5)
      • Sega Rally 2 (S2.x)
      Mounted Gun/Analog Trigger Stick games
      • Jurassic Park The Lost World (S1.5)
      • LA Machine-guns (S2.x)
      • Ocean Hunter (S2.x)
      • Star Wars Trilogy Arcade (S2.x)


      "Other" input type games.
      • Get Bass/Sega Bass Fishing (S1.0)
      • Magical Truck Adventure (S2.x)
      • Ski Champ (S2.x)


      "Information wants to be free"
      VOOT | RFM | Kraylix V3 | FiF Jr. | KI2 | UMK3 | E29 | E29| TOTD | DDR
      Follow my projects on Instagram: instagram.com/twistedchu

      Buy my 3D Printed Parts: bit-district.com

      The post was edited 1 time, last by twistedsymphony ().

    • sorry,no.

      i can make notes of the jumpers on a 1.0 though.
      then it could be compared to another board.

      it may not matter, some games may not need the extra speed as much as others.
      i want to make an ocean hunter and although that was one of the last games, it looks pretty relaxed speed-wise.

      the real problem is the fact that some games need(or may run without??) an extra audio board.
    • stj wrote:

      the real problem is the fact that some games need(or may run without??) an extra audio board.
      I believe that DSB2 PCB is only used for music and the games run fine without it present. IIRC there is no interaction between this board and the main PCB stack. it's simply receives the audio out data and translates without passing any data back to the main boards.

      I think it's only used for Daytona 2, Sega Rally 2 and Star Wars Trilogy.

      Edit:
      poking through MAME source it looks like the DSB2 was used by:

      Daytona USA 2
      Daytona USA 2 Power Edition
      SCUD Race
      Sega Rally 2
      Spike Out
      Spike Out Final Edition
      Star Wars Trilogy
      "Information wants to be free"
      VOOT | RFM | Kraylix V3 | FiF Jr. | KI2 | UMK3 | E29 | E29| TOTD | DDR
      Follow my projects on Instagram: instagram.com/twistedchu

      Buy my 3D Printed Parts: bit-district.com

      The post was edited 1 time, last by twistedsymphony ().

    • If this helps at all I own the following:


      Dead or Alive (Model 2A with security pcb)

      Fighting Vipers (Model 2B)

      Dynamite Cop (Modem 2B with security pcb)

      Virtua Fighter 2 Ver A (Model 2A)

      Virtua Fighter 2 Ver B (Model 2A) (no clue of the difference between them)

      Virtua Fighter 3 (Model 3 Step 1.0, With burned Upgrade roms for 3TB)

      Spikeout Digital Battle Online (Model 3 Step 2.X, with Security PCB, Link PCB and DSB2 Music Board)



      Of all of those games, I have 2 Model 2A Main boards with full cage (DOA and VF2B Installed), 1 Model 2B (FV Installed, I think. in cage, no lid or fan) and of course the Model 3 Step 1.0 and Step 2.X (not sure how to tell the difference between 2.0 and 2.1) boards for VF3 and Spikeout. I also have the DSB2 roms for Sega Rally 2 and Star Wars Trilogy, as I had to buy used DSB2 boards and get roms burned for Spikeout's music.

      Let me know if you want pictures of anything I have or have any questions at all about my games.

      I also have Virtua Fighter on Sega Model 1 (with Sound board) , if anyone knew how to convert a Model 1 rom board to Star Wars Arcade, I would be more than happy to grab one of the many Virtua Racing or Virtua Fighter rom boards on ebay for the conversion since I would love to play that game on its original hardware.
    • chacal231077 wrote:

      gamemaster14 wrote:

      Virtua Fighter 3 (Model 3 Step 1.0, With burned Upgrade roms for 3TB)
      Just for info the 3TB version must be activated in the setup menu
      You set if Team Battle or Single Battle is default in the test mode. You don't activate the whole game in the menu. By default, Team Battle is what you get into if you just press start. I believe you need to hold a direction on the joystick in order to select single battle. Regardless of what mode you are playing, the changes and updates to the stages from the 3tb update are always there, like one of the stages is now at night.
    • twistedsymphony wrote:

      stj wrote:

      the real problem is the fact that some games need(or may run without??) an extra audio board.
      I believe that DSB2 PCB is only used for music and the games run fine without it present. IIRC there is no interaction between this board and the main PCB stack. it's simply receives the audio out data and translates without passing any data back to the main boards.
      I think it's only used for Daytona 2, Sega Rally 2 and Star Wars Trilogy.

      Edit:
      poking through MAME source it looks like the DSB2 was used by:

      Daytona USA 2
      Daytona USA 2 Power Edition
      SCUD Race
      Sega Rally 2
      Spike Out
      Spike Out Final Edition
      Star Wars Trilogy
      Scud Race/Sega GT uses the earlier DSB which is also found on the Model 2 racer Touring Cars.
      You can connect a DSB to a cab that has a DSB2, so for example you can play Scud Race on a Daytona 2 cab with Scud Race DSB without hacking any of the wiring in the cab. You can play games without the DSB/DSB2 connected without any issues, you just get no music.

      Using the same DSB2 looms and filter board that come with the DSB2 metal case you simply cut off the locating lug on the black connector so you can insert the connector from the DSB2 loom upside down into the DSB.I hope that makes sense. I've attached some pics that hopefully explains it.

      If someone was to make a solution for a Model 3 Step2.x multi romboard that would be very cool.
      But, would it be possible to retain the game saves that are stored on the CPU board if games were to be swapped?

      One thing that would be also super useful is a multi DSB/DSB2 board. A french guy called BigPanik has done it but I don't think the info has been released.
      I would buy one of those multi DSB boards if one was up for sale.Hint hint... :D
      Images
      • DSB3.jpg

        289.6 kB, 1,024×768, viewed 13 times
      • DSB2.jpg

        343.46 kB, 1,024×768, viewed 13 times
      • DSB.jpg

        146.72 kB, 1,024×768, viewed 17 times
    • Yeah, getting that music board to work with Spikeout was one of the hardest things I have had to do. The harness wiring isn't hard but sadly, different manuals show the pinouts differently making it very confusing.

      If I recall correctly, Sega Model 2 game Top Skater and Model 3 game Lost World Jurassic Park Special both use DSB2 as well.