TMNT 2 Conversion Guide

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    • TMNT 2 Conversion Guide

      Merry Christmas and Happy New Years to everyone on Arcade Projects. I present to you, the definitive TMNT2 conversion guide. Please let me know if there are any questions or if anyone needs clarification. Please do not make these to sell, and most importantly HAVE FUN!!!

      TMNT2 Conversion Guide 1.0 - by Cpsystem3

      Game to use for a donor:
      Quiz Gakumon no Susume

      Difficulty level to perform conversion:
      7 out of 10, experience with desoldering DIP via's is required

      Materials required:
      Eprom programmer with ability to do 42pin roms and GAL16v8 and GAL22v10
      4x 40 pin DIP sockets
      2x 42 pin DIP sockets
      1x 20 pin DIP socket
      1x 22 pin DIP socket
      4x 27c4000G eproms
      1x 27c800 eprom
      1x 27c160 eprom
      4x 27c010 eproms
      1x 27c512 eprom
      1x GAL16v8 PLD
      1x GAL22v10 PLD
      Mame TMNT2 Parent Rom Set
      Mame TMNT2 region-specific rom set (optional if you want a specific region)
      Temperature Controlled Solder Station
      High Quality Desolder Braid -or- Desolder Iron

      Step 1:
      Remove all mask roms by cutting the IC legs as close to the body as you can with diagonal micro cutters. Remove the mask rom's body, remove each of the pins by heating them with your solder iron and extracting the pin with tweezers. Clear the throughole using good quality desolder braid, or a desoldering station. Inspect for any trace damage before proceeding. Assuming everything checks out OK, install quality sockets in each of the IC locations where the masks were removed (my board required 6 total).

      Step 2:
      Remove the existing PAL IC's at 4E and 5E. Install the 20 and 22 pin sockets, follow the instructions above for specifics on removal.

      Step 3:
      Burn the eproms and install in the following locations, substitute the ***'s for the revision you want (ex: UAA is USA revision A, Mame Parent):
      27c512 - 063B01 2F
      27c010 - 063***02 8E
      27c010 - 063***03 8G
      27c010 - 063***04 10E
      27c010 - 063***05 10G
      27c160 - 063B06 1D
      27c800 - 063B07 3L
      27c4000 - 063B08 3K
      27c800 - 063B09 7L
      27c4000 - 063B10 7K
      27c4000 - 063B11 12K
      27c4000 - 063B12 16K

      Step 4:
      Burn the "Konami-54253.jed" to a Gal16v8 PLD, install in location 4E. Burn "Konami-053997.jed" to a Gal22v10 PLD, install it in location 5E.

      Step 5:
      Hold the test switch on the PCB or your cabinet, power the cabinet on. This will trigger eeprom initialization and load TMNT2's default settings. Failing to do this step will result in the game not passing the rom test and resetting indefinitely.

      Tips and other thoughts:
      *When you get your game booting, enter the test menu and run a rom test. If any of the mask roms are failing, go back and double check your soldering work on the sockets. If you are not careful, it is easy to damage the via's during desoldering.

      *The 40pin 4mb Eproms are "Non-Jedec Roms", also known as "Mask Rom Pinout". They are not the same as 27c4096, 27c4001, etc. Be sure to get HN27c4000G or an equivallent.

      *If you are having trouble finding 27c800 eproms for a good price, simply use 27c160 and "double the binary". You can do this either by using Porchy's wonderful BinManager tool, or by using a command prompt in windows with "copy /b file1.bin + file2.bin combined.bin"

      *If you are having trouble finding or programming GAL22V10 PLD chips, you can reuse the PLD that came with Quiz Gakumon. The program rom memory map is different, but no worries there! Simply "interleave" program roms 8E and 10E (install in 8E) and 8G and 10G (install in 8G). Burn the resulting binaries to 27c020 eproms. Use BinManager to interleave the files.

      *Japanese distributors generally have Quiz Gakumon in stock. eBay, Yahoo, Forums generally do not. Try emailing Game Kanaya, Tops Japan, G-Front or any of the Japanese based distributors. Don't be shy, most will reply to overseas inquiries! Expect to pay about 15,000¥.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by cpsystem3 ().

    • Some notes from the other thread: Konami PCB Conversions possible?

      we discovered that 3K and 7K don't need to be replaced. the MaskROMs on QG are the same as TMNT2
      Similarly the QG PAL16V8 is the same as TMNT2 as well. This saves quite a bit of annoying desoldering.

      Also it was recommended that for the 27c160 to use a 50ns chip as slower chips can cause stability problems (I don't know why exactly).
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    • twistedsymphony wrote:

      Some notes from the other thread: Konami PCB Conversions possible?

      we discovered that 3K and 7K don't need to be replaced. the MaskROMs on QG are the same as TMNT2
      Similarly the QG PAL16V8 is the same as TMNT2 as well. This saves quite a bit of annoying desoldering.

      Also it was recommended that for the 27c160 to use a 50ns chip as slower chips can cause stability problems (I don't know why exactly).
      That is true for factory conversions that Konami did (they sometimes left behind TMNT2 mask roms). The board I used was always a Quiz Gakumon, and had those rom locations unpopulated.

      Interesting regarding the 50ns chips, I used 100ns and did not have any issues. My board has been played through to the end many times.
    • Thanks for the write up. I'm midway through this conversion, just waiting on some sockets and chips to arrive, but I'm not 100% sure I got the non Jedec 40 pin chips. Will have to look, but I think I was missing that part.
      multis: cps* ttx2 gnet f3 mvs sega st-v/16b/24/c2/naomi(netboot) sys2x6 m72
      cabs: sega blast city x2 | taito vewlix c + egret ii
      links: klov/vaps games list | custom fight sticks
      projects: conversions, various repairs
    • ekorz wrote:

      Thanks for the write up. I'm midway through this conversion, just waiting on some sockets and chips to arrive, but I'm not 100% sure I got the non Jedec 40 pin chips. Will have to look, but I think I was missing that part.
      I should have spares on hand if you need. Be aware a lot of the Chinese "budget" programmers have trouble with these chips (at least in my experience with Willems junk).
    • @cpsystem3 my quiz had the leftover roms on it so I think I just need 12k and 16k. If you have two, I'd be very appreciative. I have a top3000, but hell if I'm over for that i8751 anyway maybe you can program those also? :D
      multis: cps* ttx2 gnet f3 mvs sega st-v/16b/24/c2/naomi(netboot) sys2x6 m72
      cabs: sega blast city x2 | taito vewlix c + egret ii
      links: klov/vaps games list | custom fight sticks
      projects: conversions, various repairs


    • Finally wrapped this conversion up! Thanks for the help @cpsystem3 @twistedsymphony and @skate323k137. My original GAL didn't seem to work, but after giving it a 2nd try I think it just requires you to lock the security on it. Unfortunately my board has a lot of static in the audio, so time to check the pots, caps, amps, etc. But hey at least it's working!
      multis: cps* ttx2 gnet f3 mvs sega st-v/16b/24/c2/naomi(netboot) sys2x6 m72
      cabs: sega blast city x2 | taito vewlix c + egret ii
      links: klov/vaps games list | custom fight sticks
      projects: conversions, various repairs
    • God I remember when I was doing this more than 3 years ago for a little experiment. After I dumped the PAL chip for a repair I was doing on another TMNT, I had a suspicion that Quiz Gakumon was a 1:1 board with TMNT. After dumping it, I uploaded it to Jamma then started doing the conversions for basically the price of the board + the eproms on neo because I was pissed off at the price of TMNT2. However I realized doing all of that was too much work, so I quit doing it after a few conversions. The price of Gakumon shot up from $10-$20 on YAJ to what you see now because I couldn't keep my big mouth shut haha

      The post was edited 5 times, last by CoolFox ().

    • Just updating this. If you're hearing a lot of static in the sampled audio, you might have a counterfeit 27c160. I don't think it matters if it's 50ns or 100ns.. what matters is that it's not a fake chip! I was able to clear all my audio problems by sourcing another 27c160.
      multis: cps* ttx2 gnet f3 mvs sega st-v/16b/24/c2/naomi(netboot) sys2x6 m72
      cabs: sega blast city x2 | taito vewlix c + egret ii
      links: klov/vaps games list | custom fight sticks
      projects: conversions, various repairs
    • CoolFox wrote:

      God I remember when I was doing this more than 3 years ago for a little experiment. After I dumped the PAL chip for a repair I was doing on another TMNT, I had a suspicion that Quiz Gakumon was a 1:1 board with TMNT. After dumping it, I uploaded it to Jamma then started doing the conversions for basically the price of the board + the eproms on neo because I was pissed off at the price of TMNT2. However I realized doing all of that was too much work, so I quit doing it after a few conversions. The price of Gakumon shot up from $10-$20 on YAJ to what you see now because I couldn't keep my big mouth shut haha
      Not sure who was first doing the conversion but it's quite old (10/15 years?).
      IIRC member Pac-r on a french forum found the information on the System16 website that boards were identical and performed the conversion.
      Looking for:
      - OutRun boardset even untested or not working
      - Sega Super Scaler hardware (Out Run, Model X, Model Y), even with faulty PCM chip



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    • Apocalypse wrote:

      CoolFox wrote:

      God I remember when I was doing this more than 3 years ago for a little experiment. After I dumped the PAL chip for a repair I was doing on another TMNT, I had a suspicion that Quiz Gakumon was a 1:1 board with TMNT. After dumping it, I uploaded it to Jamma then started doing the conversions for basically the price of the board + the eproms on neo because I was pissed off at the price of TMNT2. However I realized doing all of that was too much work, so I quit doing it after a few conversions. The price of Gakumon shot up from $10-$20 on YAJ to what you see now because I couldn't keep my big mouth shut haha
      Not sure who was first doing the conversion but it's quite old (10/15 years?).IIRC member Pac-r on a french forum found the information on the System16 website that boards were identical and performed the conversion.
      I don't believe the necessary PAL dump was publicly available until Fox submitted it to jammarcade, though I could be wrong.
    • kuze wrote:

      I don't believe the necessary PAL dump was publicly available until Fox submitted it to jammarcade, though I could be wrong.
      Publicly available, clearly not.
      I've discovered over the years information wasn't widespread within the arcade community in general.
      For instance I remember reading people hoping for a hacked version of Forgotten Worlds to get rid of the spinners when the OG hack was made back in 1999...

      P.S.: A lot of conversions have been well known for a long time but were kept secret cause few people were making a lot of money with them. There were conversions sold as OG and no one could spot them (matching datecode on EPROMs and fake labels, or EEPROMs/PALs with reference engraved with a laser machine used for 3D "crystal" souvenirs).
      Looking for:
      - OutRun boardset even untested or not working
      - Sega Super Scaler hardware (Out Run, Model X, Model Y), even with faulty PCM chip



      01010011 01000101 01000011 01010010 01000101 01010100 00100000 01001101 01000101 01001110 01010101 00100000 01000111 01010101 01011001