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Raizing would of had access to the real original sound chips, it's gotta be a bootleg due to the lower quality OKI being used.I guess the 2 wires going to the bottom board feed the game with the ET01 data, but as you say it does not explain the bios lock...
The output from both of the cat702 chips are wired together, but when they aren't active the outputs float. If they just captured the data on the output pin, then they would get the output from both cat702. My guess is the outputs get AND'd so as long as the bootleg is outputting what the motherboard cat702 outputs, then it's fine. If the cat702 replacement is always active then you might be able to remove the cat702 from the motherboard and still boot.
The wires are connected to a socket for the bottom board cat, so the idea must be to remove the original cat and install the socketed wires.

The ultimate experience sounds good but a hell lot of work... one can only dream.
A Repro of the primal rage top board looks fairly simple, just track it out / copy the layout, dump the pld and add the VT83 from a scrap area 51.

As for arcade bios, selling things that exist is one thing, selling shoddy conversions is another...
But taking money for things that don't exist is out of order.
 
It's a different Bust A Move 2. In countries where Puzzle Bobble was released as Bust A Move, they released the other Bust A Move as Bust A Groove.
I see.. make that only nba jam and bloody roar...
 
smf said:
This message board is annoying, is there a way to switch it into a mode where you can easily copy and paste the quotes?
Click the empty box in the upper-left when typing a reply to see the bbcode version which is easier to edit.
there is an even easier way. When reading the forum normally. highlight a section of someone's post and then click the "Insert Quote" button that appears. above the highlighted text (doesn't work on mobile).
 
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The wires are connected to a socket for the bottom board cat, so the idea must be to remove the original cat and install the socketed wires.
Interesting. Unless there is a copy of the bios on the bootleg and some way of overriding it, then I think you'll need the correct one. You could replace the bios, but it's not really plug and play. Anyway, hopefully someone will be able to make observations on real hardware soon.

A Repro of the primal rage top board looks fairly simple, just track it out / copy the layout, dump the pld and add the VT83 from a scrap area 51.
First you would need to have access to one. I assume PLD's aren't designed to let you dump them easily. You still need to upgrade the mother board to 8mb.

If I had one of these then I would consider trying to port it (it has 8mb of ram connected to the IOP, which is essentially the PS1 cpu).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PSX_(digital_video_recorder)

But taking money for things that don't exist is out of order.
What was that?
 
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Yep looking forward to the full dump and some testing, it's very interesting.

First you would need to have access to one. I assume PLD's aren't designed to let you dump them easily. You still need to upgrade the mother board to 8mb.

If I had one of these then I would consider trying to port it (it has 8mb of ram connected to the IOP, which is essentially the PS1 cpu).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PSX_(digital_video_recorder)
The PLD is unsecured AFAIK... :) It needs someone with the hardware to assist to entertain that route that's for sure.

Is see on the ZNx motherboard the space is there to install the ram...

Never seen the digital video recorder before, looks a very expensive bit of kit!
I have most of the standard ZN stuff if you need any for development, i can fit the ram and install a bios rom socket if you like ;)

As for mod bios.. can't say much in public as the guy who got ripped off for work that never happened gave me some stuff to share around because he was pissed off.
Also from what i'm told he was charging 100 euro each for the model 2's - a bit of a rip for a few 'nops' don't you think?
 

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Is see on the ZNx motherboard the space is there to install the ram...
That is the GPU ram, a few games have 1MB but the majority have 2MB. Primal Rage 2 needs 2MB of GPU RAM. You can populate that position and change one of the straps on the board.

But what I was referring to was the CPU RAM. Primal Rage 2 comes with 4 x KM48V2104AT which makes 8MB, but every other ZN1 game shipped with 8 x KM48V514BJ which makes 4MB. So you need to remove all 8 chips, solder in the 4 new ram chips and change the board strap.

ZN2 on the other hand shipped with 2 x KM416V1204BT, so if you can source two of those and change the board strap then you should have 8MB. But the ZN2 runs at a different clock speed & it's not clear what effect that has & it may or may not affect the game. The game dedicates seems to mainly use the extra 4MB for a disk cache, which might not be necessary with compact flash. But how easy it would be to rewrite the game without the source code is another matter.
 
Excellent information! I have gone over all my motherboards...

Looking at SFEX and Toshinden on the CPzn1, SFEX has more GPU ram.
Was always under the assumption all the ZN motherboards are the same / matched to bios/cat but WRONG!
This adds another level of confusion to the pile!

The SFEX 4mb motherboard is COH-1002C, I also have a COH-1002T on a raystorm. I don't see them listed in the mame driver.
Bios on the 1002C is an oki chip and not the sony mask rom like all my others. If they sound interesting will get some pics / get them dumped.
(makes sense while the B,Roar boot is out for dumping, more testing!)

The motherboard codes COH-1000C and COH1000T are the 2MB gpu ram versions of the same pcb's,

Ram swap looks fairly simple just a case of working out the jumpers. As you say, the donor game might as well be a 4mb GPU game to save time.

have you read this: https://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?t=315445

The image shows 2 different ram layouts for the main board, it's a good enough pic of the main board to copy the ram layout.
He also has the source code. And an undumped version by the looks... but no cat chips ;)

I'm feeling a bit anxious if you know what i mean . . .
 
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Looking at SFEX and Toshinden on the CPzn1, SFEX has more GPU ram.
Was always under the assumption all the ZN motherboards are the same / matched to bios/cat but WRONG!
This adds another level of confusion to the pile!
Interesting.. I always assumed they were the same as well. I'll have to go through my ZN stuff to see what's different. I'm hoping that at least the Capcom ZN2 main-board is standardized.
 
The SFEX 4mb motherboard is COH-1002C, I also have a COH-1002T on a raystorm. I don't see them listed in the mame driver.
There isn't a board layout in the source for coh1002c, but it's used in the emulation.

GAME( 1995, ts2, coh1000c, coh1000c, zn6b, zn_state, empty_init, ROT0, "Capcom / Takara", "Battle Arena Toshinden 2 (USA 951124)", MACHINE_IMPERFECT_SOUND )
GAME( 1996, sfex, coh1000c, coh1002c, zn6b, zn_state, empty_init, ROT0, "Capcom / Arika", "Street Fighter EX (Euro 961219)", MACHINE_IMPERFECT_SOUND )

I thought the difference between coh1000c & coh1002c was just the vram, the board notes for the coh1000c has 4mb on it.

The motherboard codes COH-1000C and COH1000T are the 2MB gpu ram versions of the same pcb's,
1 mb GPU (same as retail PSX)

Ram swap looks fairly simple just a case of working out the jumpers. As you say, the donor game might as well be a 4mb GPU game to save time.
2 mb GPU. We know roughly what the jumpers mean, because the game reads them to configure the ram controller.

------00 mem=4M
------01 mem=4M
------10 mem=8M
------11 mem=16M
-----0-- smem=hM
-----1-- smem=2M
----0--- vmem=1M
----1--- vmem=2M
000----- rev=-2
001----- rev=-1
010----- rev=0
011----- rev=1
100----- rev=2
101----- rev=3
110----- rev=4
111----- rev=5

I don't know where they are but I think it's classic pad + trace cutting & joining. There is only one possible setting for 8mb.

I don't know what chips you need to get 16mb, but if you can upgrade gnet to 16mb then I'd like to get mine upgraded. System 573 would be interesting as well. Should be possible to add a hard drive to that too.

I've not looked at what happens if you tell it you have 2mb of sound ram, instead of 0.5mb. The way sound memory is addressed it would likely make it incompatible with all existing software, so it's never been high on my list.
have you read this: https://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?t=315445

The image shows 2 different ram layouts for the main board, it's a good enough pic of the main board to copy the ram layout.
Yeah I saw that. We have a board layout in the source already.

He also has the source code. And an undumped version by the looks... but no cat chips ;)
You can see he has some cat chips, he's not got the roms that work on the target box.

Getting the source code from him is going to be somewhere between impossible and very impossible.

Interesting.. I always assumed they were the same as well. I'll have to go through my ZN stuff to see what's different. I'm hoping that at least the Capcom ZN2 main-board is standardized.
I think that by the time the ZN2 shipped, the cost of the RAM was less of an issue. The CPU was faster, so it didn't just receive lazy PS1 ports & you would want to justify going to the more expensive board. Capcom seemed to have gone with COH-3002C just in case they wanted to do a cut down version, while Taito was COH-3000T for GNET which came with 2mb of GPU RAM.
 
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There isn't a board layout in the source for coh1002c, but it's used in the emulation.
I thought the difference between coh1000c & coh1002c was just the vram, the board notes for the coh1000c has 4mb on it.

1 mb GPU (same as retail PSX)

2 mb GPU. We know roughly what the jumpers mean, because the game reads them to configure the ram controller
Scanning too quickly the mame driver coh- (with line) and missed it.

You are correct, for some reason got everything mixed up on ram sizes you have detected my errors .. 4 mb cpu ram, and 1/2mb graphics.

It would be sweet to max everything out. Not much need for it tho.
The 1002 pcb's have a few racks of jumpers clearly in the middle, the older pcbs nothing obvious.
Time to find some rams and attempt an upgrade
You can see he has some cat chips, I assume he is missing a tw02 for his target box & the software.
2x cat's between 5 top boards is not exactly great.. The motherboards look a mix of SC and TW
I don't think the target software exists anymore. That would be something all set up!
 
2x cat's between 5 top boards is not exactly great.. The motherboards look a mix of SC and TW
I don't think the target software exists anymore. That would be something all set up!
You're right, I missed that he had so few TW02.

The board on the right with the SC01 is from a target box. If you look closely you'll see it doesn't have a bios fitted, instead the bios is loaded from an socketed rom on an extra board that plugs in next to it. I assume he has it or it won't boot.
 
I would like to thank Doc @ Galloping Ghost for helping me with the kickharness pin-out and another guy (you know who you are) for getting this board running.

Also had to find out pinouts on the board for 5V (on the gun pins on the rom board) for the Flash drive and fans as this is encased in the original dev box, so I had to mount fans on the vents. Used a real IDE solid state drive that was used for heavy duty servers (these are completely metal) and mounted it to the board. Took quite a while, but another one lives and will hopefully be going to a museum for all to play for a few months.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWNMUU8dsQM
 
Epic! Glad to see you got it up and running, that's pretty awesome.

Also I see you are a fellow NGE fan! :thumbup:
 
this is awesome. Too awesome to be buried in a taito GNet conversion thread. You should consider snapping some more photos and posting a new topic in the arcade projects section. I know I’d love to know more... why the industrial ssd, which version it’s running, if it had a dev version when you found it, etc. or just celebrate that there’s another rage2 alive and well. I’m sure folks will also want to know where it ends up so they can play it!
 
this is awesome. Too awesome to be buried in a taito GNet conversion thread. You should consider snapping some more photos and posting a new topic in the arcade projects section. I know I’d love to know more... why the industrial ssd, which version it’s running, if it had a dev version when you found it, etc. or just celebrate that there’s another rage2 alive and well. I’m sure folks will also want to know where it ends up so they can play it!
It's the Dev board for Atari's ZN platform, but it wasn't populated with the game, so it had to be populated....it's the same version that's out there. Basically the only thing in the case when I got it was the motherboard, the primal rage 2 rom board (not populated with any roms) and the scsi like board that contains the bios. I put it on that specific hdd because it's built like a beast. You can throw it on the ground multiple times and it would be fine. I put fans on it because the board generates a good amount of heat.
 
If you were willing to take some pics I'd love to see more of that development kit. It isn't very often you see arcade development hardware out in the wild.
 
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