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twistedsymphony

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In Apocalypse's System 16 Multi thread it was mentioned that a version of Fantasy Zone DX could be played on System 16B hardware.

This and the Fantasy Zone Time Attack version were converted to 16B by M2 for the Sega Ages PS2 release. The roms can be extracted and run on real hardware.
I hadn't heard of this before but I'm interested in doing the conversion to hold me over until the Multi is available. Looking at MAME source it mentions that it was designed for "16C" hardware and notes "ROM Board type: 171-5704 + Extra RAM"

Does anyone know what needs to be done to get this running on a normal System 16B with 5704 ROM board?

Also I presume if one were to do this modification to a 16B main board it would still play other games without issue; meaning that if we wanted the multi to support this game we'd need to do the RAM upgrade.
 
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I'm surprised you haven't found anything about it online, it's been known for more than a decade now.
Original 16B motherboards "only" have 16kB of work RAM (2 RAM chips of 8kB each) and FZ2DX requires 256kB (16 times more). The only method I've used was pulling OG RAMs and installing bigger ones instead with the 4 extra upper address lines connected to the CPU.
But I'm also working on a solution requiring no soldering, I'm thinking of a board that would plug between the motherboard and the CPU.

And yes other games still play.
 
I hadn't heard of this before but I'm interested in doing the conversion to hold me over until the Multi is available. Looking at MAME source it mentions that it was designed for "16C" hardware and notes "ROM Board type: 171-5704 + Extra RAM"

Does anyone know what needs to be done to get this running on a normal System 16B with 5704 ROM board?
Since there was no documentation online, some years ago I have figured out and performed myself this conversion but I can't release any detailed info due obvious reasons, I don't want to boost the conversion business
Also I presume if one were to do this modification to a 16B main board it would still play other games without issue; meaning that if we wanted the multi to support this game we'd need to do the RAM upgrade.
Yes, a modified System 16B ROM board would still play all other games
Original 16B motherboards "only" have 16kB of work RAM (2 RAM chips of 8kB each) and FZ2DX requires 256kB (16 times more). The only method I've used was pulling OG RAMs and installing bigger ones instead with the 4 extra upper address lines connected to the CPU.
That's not really exact.Between the main CPU and WORK RAMs there is the '315-5195' PGA memory mapper.The extra address lines of the bigger RAMs must be connected to it through the unused I/O of some buffers :)
 
The information to create System 16C board has been kept quiet due to the impact it could have on M2 doing future development on games in such a manner.

They have been very clear about this, along with people receiving cease and desist orders
 
The information to create System 16C board has been kept quiet due to the impact it could have on M2 doing future development on games in such a manner.

They have been very clear about this, along with people receiving cease and desist orders
Ahah. It's not really rocket science, anyone with minimum electronic knowledge can figure it out in minutes.
Also can you develop the impact it could have regarding games development? I don't get it.
Anyway this game was just a treat for hardcore FZ2 players, an attempt to try fixing some "flaws". Nothing OG.
It's been 12 years and no other game has seen the light of day on any old Sega harware (S16, S18, etc.).
 
I have a business relationship with M2, so personally I will respect and enforce their request when possible.

But that doesn't mean I don't have a FZ2DX conversion board in my collection; I'm just saying you might find trouble if you start publishing how-to's for the masses.
 
Boards were seized in a Japanese arcade club and warnings issued. They haven't just tried, a clear warning was already sent, you just didn't get the message. Companies will defend IP and you don't want to wrestle with Sega/M2 trust me.
 
Boards were seized in a Japanese arcade club and warnings issued. They haven't just tried, a clear warning was already sent, you just didn't get the message. Companies will defend IP and you don't want to wrestle with Sega/M2 trust me.
no thats in japan where you have no freedom , that shit straight out wouldn't fly in the usa , we are actively sueing companies for not offering proper information about things currently(apple john deer mircosoft/sony/nintendo) so the fact is if you bought board 1 you own the game, if you then take the chips and desolder them onto board b to create the same game (because board A dosent work for some reason) you can flat out Claim you did it for sake of repair. on top of the information for how to convert one to the other, can also be see as pure documentation for research
 
You cannot compare the John Deere case. Your free to mod your pcb and add led lights or a fan, whatever. There's nothing stopping you from doing that .

You may have misunderstood that the fz2dx software was not released in rom board form as well. It never was. Because of some clever work it can be played, and there's a zipfile of roms.

Id point to the romanian or Bulgarian seller who was selling conversions on eBay for €400+, grabbing up any and all cheap s16b boards. But he seems to have magically disappeared.

I'm not on a high horse here and I'll agree that we discuss a lot of borderline things in these forums, but this is not one of the things I want to get involved in. I won't enter into any further pissing contest on what is legally allowed or not.

The fact is, it kills motivation for devs and any chances for us to see future releases based on real hardware. M2 did a lot of great work, and more coop arcade stuff is coming from them on a new platform. Look them up. FZ2dx wasn't the last thing they released.
 
Comparing it to that is isnt exactly what it is dosent matter what the fact is in the usa we are getting alot of our cusumer laws back, this includes modding and talking bout whats been done to do so including for research reasons
ie under dmca you can fully decypt and bypass a dongle for instance. and this isnt even taking into account what the future holds.

the ifnormation how to do something isnt something they can censor either its the hosting of the illegal files that is the problem not talking bout it.
 
Id point to the romanian or Bulgarian seller who was selling conversions on eBay for €400+, grabbing up any and all cheap s16b boards. But he seems to have magically disappeared.
He is here among us :)
 
looking at the C&D thing a bit more it sounds like one of these conversions was put in an arcade for public use. The C&D was sent over that because the game had never been officially released for arcade and Sega was planning a version for the All.Net service.

So that's some special considerations here...

1. A game that was previously unreleased in the arcade despite it's age
2. It was being used in a public location
3. Sega was planning on monetizing the game

That's a very different scenario than a lot of the other games we talk about converting.
 
Thats true, however as long as you are not selling the game, or providing the copyrighted files, theirs little they can do about the information aspect of it.
 
Thats true, however as long as you are not selling the game, or providing the copyrighted files, theirs little they can do about the information aspect of it.
FIles are already public domain as you simply need the MAME ROM set.What is not shared is the needed hardware modification.Anyway, all people with a minimum of electronics knowledge can figure it out themselves.
 
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M2 is a developer which has to buy licensing rights. The license holder was very unhappy and upset to see it in arcades and on real hardware again. This action is what jeopardizes future game develop. In the very near future you're going to learn why this is important.

I should be more clear then: if anyone posts conversion instructions here on AP for fz2dx/16c, it will be deleted. It is that simple.

But what you do privately is your own business.
 
I should be more clear then: if anyone posts conversion instructions here on AP for fz2dx/16c, it will be deleted. It is that simple.
For sure it will not by me :)
 
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I should be more clear then: if anyone posts conversion instructions here on AP for fz2dx/16c, it will be deleted. It is that simple.
FZ2DX conversion I understand but extending work RAM on a 16B motherboard isn't something IP can protect (first it's very basic, second it's not necessarily tied to the FZ2DX conversion). Since computers have entered into our homes hardware tweaking exists.

Anyway, I'm not going to play that game, call me chicken if you want but almost everything we discuss here is borderline and I don't want it to disappear.
 
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