SuperScore29
Beginner
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The 3 different colors for the voltage indicators are normal. The led's just indicate that there is some voltage present on the 3 supply rails.
I notice on your first picture that you don't have a network board on your chihiro dimm board. Are you trying to use it like that?
I can check the leds on my dimm board and verify the jumper settings on it within 6 - 7 hours when I have finished my work.
The chihiro unit will only show video with a good working dimm connected. The top case dimm board contains the flash that holds segaboot.xbe which is basically the chihiro dashboard.
The first thing I would do is have a look if the gpu fan is actually spinning. (You need to separate the 2 cages for that.) If it's not spinning, you will likely have GPU issues. Did you buy it as a working unit? You can also check if the capacitors surrounding the CPU aren't bulging out indicating they need to be replaced. Third point of misery is the 1 farad goldcap on the main board. (Front Left if the case fan is Read Right). It usually starts leaking and spills some corrosive chemicals on the pcb that eats the surrounding pcb tracks. The unit should function fine without that capacitor. (Simply remove it)
When the gpu has operated some time without working fan, the board underneath it will have decolored brownish.
Incorrect dip switch settings on the filter board can also cause a behavour of no video and no audio. You can check the manual of most chihiro games to figure out how they are suposed to be set.
I notice on your first picture that you don't have a network board on your chihiro dimm board. Are you trying to use it like that?
I can check the leds on my dimm board and verify the jumper settings on it within 6 - 7 hours when I have finished my work.
The chihiro unit will only show video with a good working dimm connected. The top case dimm board contains the flash that holds segaboot.xbe which is basically the chihiro dashboard.
The first thing I would do is have a look if the gpu fan is actually spinning. (You need to separate the 2 cages for that.) If it's not spinning, you will likely have GPU issues. Did you buy it as a working unit? You can also check if the capacitors surrounding the CPU aren't bulging out indicating they need to be replaced. Third point of misery is the 1 farad goldcap on the main board. (Front Left if the case fan is Read Right). It usually starts leaking and spills some corrosive chemicals on the pcb that eats the surrounding pcb tracks. The unit should function fine without that capacitor. (Simply remove it)
When the gpu has operated some time without working fan, the board underneath it will have decolored brownish.
Incorrect dip switch settings on the filter board can also cause a behavour of no video and no audio. You can check the manual of most chihiro games to figure out how they are suposed to be set.
Normally there is a shiny metal plate on the side where the network board connectors come out. it has holes for a DB9 connector and for a RJ45 network connector. It also has some smaller round holes so you can see some status leds. If your unit has a plate with those holes, the network board likely got removed. I never heared of a dimm unit without that board.
I just downloaded the Ghost Squad manual and you are correct. It comes without network adapter.
This kind of suprises me as a "House Of the Dead 3" comes with a chihiro 1 setup that uses a netdimm.
It's also a non networking game, so they could have used a normal dimm there as well.
I assume you didn't move any of the dimm board jumpers.
(As setting them to netboot would probably cause some issues without network adapter.)
You can try to remove and reseat the dimm sd ram module.
If it still has a battery connected to the dimm board, disconnect it as it likely will be flat and defective.
If none of these brings it to live, you really should examine the main board and the gpu fan.
This kind of suprises me as a "House Of the Dead 3" comes with a chihiro 1 setup that uses a netdimm.
It's also a non networking game, so they could have used a normal dimm there as well.
I assume you didn't move any of the dimm board jumpers.
(As setting them to netboot would probably cause some issues without network adapter.)
You can try to remove and reseat the dimm sd ram module.
If it still has a battery connected to the dimm board, disconnect it as it likely will be flat and defective.
If none of these brings it to live, you really should examine the main board and the gpu fan.
You need to unscrew the filter board on the side of the bottom case. (The one with the dipswitches, the power connectors and the 3 power led's)
After unscrewing it, you can pull out the filter board.
You also need to descrew the metal plate on the video connector site. The db15 vga connector has 2 screws that connect it to that plate.
You now can unscrew the base board (one with the cr2032 battery) and lift it enough to disconnect all the wires underneath that connect it to the main board. There also is a metal support that holds the board.
It's only Naomi that refuses to boot when the fan's aren't rotating. Chihiro's just keep running till the gpu dies due to overheating.
You can power the chihiro bottom case with the 2 boards without the upper dimm case.
You won't get any video like that, but you can inspect the fan's.
That rust on your case blower screws looks terrible. Usually arcades are a dry area and dust can be removed simply with compressed air. It looks like yours has been stocked in some humid unheated basement for a while.
10V capacitors instead of 6V3 ones should be fine. They will just be a bit taller. Even if only one has leaked, you better replace all of them.
Make sure you also check and remove the 1 Farad goldcap. You don't need to install another one. It just keeps the main board clock running for a while when depowered. Chihiro has another clock chip on the base board that is powered by the CR2032 battery and a small goldcap close to it.
You can try to separate the heatsink from the gpu, but it's usually not very easy. During the years, the original thermal paste has hardened and sticks to both gpu and heatsink very well. I doubt you will get much cooler temperatures with new thermal paste. The fan is more a concern.
After unscrewing it, you can pull out the filter board.
You also need to descrew the metal plate on the video connector site. The db15 vga connector has 2 screws that connect it to that plate.
You now can unscrew the base board (one with the cr2032 battery) and lift it enough to disconnect all the wires underneath that connect it to the main board. There also is a metal support that holds the board.
It's only Naomi that refuses to boot when the fan's aren't rotating. Chihiro's just keep running till the gpu dies due to overheating.
You can power the chihiro bottom case with the 2 boards without the upper dimm case.
You won't get any video like that, but you can inspect the fan's.
That rust on your case blower screws looks terrible. Usually arcades are a dry area and dust can be removed simply with compressed air. It looks like yours has been stocked in some humid unheated basement for a while.
10V capacitors instead of 6V3 ones should be fine. They will just be a bit taller. Even if only one has leaked, you better replace all of them.
Make sure you also check and remove the 1 Farad goldcap. You don't need to install another one. It just keeps the main board clock running for a while when depowered. Chihiro has another clock chip on the base board that is powered by the CR2032 battery and a small goldcap close to it.
You can try to separate the heatsink from the gpu, but it's usually not very easy. During the years, the original thermal paste has hardened and sticks to both gpu and heatsink very well. I doubt you will get much cooler temperatures with new thermal paste. The fan is more a concern.
lukemorse1
Professional
Not to say this is the problem 100% at all but the biggest problem with the Chihiro is when the gpu fan gets stuck and the exhaust fan gets like the picture above and the system overheats.
If/when the gpu gets too hot, the chip actually warps and rips the gpu solder points off of the board rendering the system pretty much dead. Unlike regular reflow with systems like ps3 or xbox360, once those pads are ripped off the board they cannot just be reflowed.
If you take out the mother board and flip it over and notice a really dark brown patch in the middle of the gpu where there is a cluster of ceramic capacitors it may have gotten too hot and damaged the board.
Not recommending you do this at all but IF you you were able to remove the gpu with enough heat and the pads WERE ripped off the board, you would see traces that end with tiny black holes where the pads used to be.
Common symptoms are a flashing green light at first and then a flashing red to green and repeat or the fan on the gpu kicking on for a few seconds then system reboot. No video and sometimes just a simple pop from the speakers at start up.
Ive worked on several of these systems before and unless it is tested working when you buy it, it can be a gamble.
If/when the gpu gets too hot, the chip actually warps and rips the gpu solder points off of the board rendering the system pretty much dead. Unlike regular reflow with systems like ps3 or xbox360, once those pads are ripped off the board they cannot just be reflowed.
If you take out the mother board and flip it over and notice a really dark brown patch in the middle of the gpu where there is a cluster of ceramic capacitors it may have gotten too hot and damaged the board.
Not recommending you do this at all but IF you you were able to remove the gpu with enough heat and the pads WERE ripped off the board, you would see traces that end with tiny black holes where the pads used to be.
Common symptoms are a flashing green light at first and then a flashing red to green and repeat or the fan on the gpu kicking on for a few seconds then system reboot. No video and sometimes just a simple pop from the speakers at start up.
Ive worked on several of these systems before and unless it is tested working when you buy it, it can be a gamble.
Maybe you wrote it down already, but when you powered the system, did the green led come on in the middle of the filter board?
(The filter board is the one with the power connector, the 3 power rail leds and some dipswitches. It normally is white on the back site.)
The green and red light in the middle are comparable with the eject button leds of an xbox. Normally when the system is powered, the green should light up. If that's not the case, your power supply isn't turning on. The powering of the system is under supervision of a small pic microcontroller, so basically it should at least try to turn on, even with a dead gpu and bad cpu capacitors.
(The filter board is the one with the power connector, the 3 power rail leds and some dipswitches. It normally is white on the back site.)
The green and red light in the middle are comparable with the eject button leds of an xbox. Normally when the system is powered, the green should light up. If that's not the case, your power supply isn't turning on. The powering of the system is under supervision of a small pic microcontroller, so basically it should at least try to turn on, even with a dead gpu and bad cpu capacitors.
The chihiro mainboard is basically a debug xbox board with an MCPX II instead of the MCPX III you find on retail boards. It's only difference compared to a debug is it's bios.
Another difference between a debug and a retail board (besides the MCPX and the additional 64MB of memory) is the SMC supervisor PIC microcontroller. On a retail board, it expects the x86 to respond to a challenge some milliseconds after boot. If the challenge isn't furfilled correctly, the smc will reboot the system. After a couple of attempts, it will stop trying and flash the led's red and green. This is the famous frag you had on xboxes if things really got messed up badly.
A debug SMC controller doesn't need such a challenge / response and will stay powered up, even with a non working x86 processor.
If previous owner said it worked, you might check for corroded pcb tracks. The rust on the blower indicates it faced some humidity. Maybe some of the pcb tracks got affected as well, but since your gpu fan wasn't running, it possibly has an overheated gpu. it all depends how long it had to run without apropriate cooling of the gpu. I doubt however the gpu would overheat and die during the couple of minutes you tested the system. Maybe the gpu bga solderings were in bad condition, and transportation didn't do any good to it. (Unless you picked it up yourself)
Another difference between a debug and a retail board (besides the MCPX and the additional 64MB of memory) is the SMC supervisor PIC microcontroller. On a retail board, it expects the x86 to respond to a challenge some milliseconds after boot. If the challenge isn't furfilled correctly, the smc will reboot the system. After a couple of attempts, it will stop trying and flash the led's red and green. This is the famous frag you had on xboxes if things really got messed up badly.
A debug SMC controller doesn't need such a challenge / response and will stay powered up, even with a non working x86 processor.
If previous owner said it worked, you might check for corroded pcb tracks. The rust on the blower indicates it faced some humidity. Maybe some of the pcb tracks got affected as well, but since your gpu fan wasn't running, it possibly has an overheated gpu. it all depends how long it had to run without apropriate cooling of the gpu. I doubt however the gpu would overheat and die during the couple of minutes you tested the system. Maybe the gpu bga solderings were in bad condition, and transportation didn't do any good to it. (Unless you picked it up yourself)
bobbydilley
Grand Master
Really interesting reading the thread!
I'm currently being offered a Chihiro that has both the red and green status lights solidly on - does anyone know what this means, or if its fixable?
I'm currently being offered a Chihiro that has both the red and green status lights solidly on - does anyone know what this means, or if its fixable?
lukemorse1
Professional
Honestly speaking, with the Chihiro systems unless they are displaying video, even poorly I wouldnt touch it. So many of these systems have suffered from overheated gpu issues that arent reparable due to the fans getting gunked up and freezing. Unless its something you are getting for free to mess around with it would be better to pay a little extra and get one that actually works
We know a guy that already does it. We had him convert two for us and we tried to see what he did besides add more ram but we haven't figured it out yet. I have a box full of new ram waiting for that day...
Exactly. The motherboard needs another bios that runs on a retail board.
My modchip didn't work with also the dimm board connected to the LPC bus so the only other option is a Tsop flash.
It's a pretty tricky operation to test experimental biosses like that. Luckily some boards have 4 banks and you can switch to another if it doesn't boot.
I probably won't release my bios as it's a complicated procedure to install the additional ram's and tsop flash the new bios. Most people will mess up and blame me for it. I do intend to sell some upgraded and tested boards. (The ones you don't find on fleabay now.)
My modchip didn't work with also the dimm board connected to the LPC bus so the only other option is a Tsop flash.
It's a pretty tricky operation to test experimental biosses like that. Luckily some boards have 4 banks and you can switch to another if it doesn't boot.
I probably won't release my bios as it's a complicated procedure to install the additional ram's and tsop flash the new bios. Most people will mess up and blame me for it. I do intend to sell some upgraded and tested boards. (The ones you don't find on fleabay now.)
You cant just desolder the flash and reprogram it?
The chihiro mobo uses the MCPXII southbridge chip. It's the same used on debug xbox motherboards. A retail motherboard uses the MCPXIII. That one has 512 bytes rom onboard that are the code the system initially runs at startup. On the MCPXII, that code comes from the tsop flash chip.
Next, there is the challenge protocol with the smc chip that only is present on retail motherboards. It's purpose is to prevent single stepping trough the bios. After a reset, the smc chip provides 4 bytes and expect you to do a calculation with them. It finally needs 2 bytes in return. If this challenge protocol isn't furfilled within a fraction of a second, the smc chip will reset the x86 architecture so it can try again. If things go wrong for 2 or 3 times, it initially gives up and keeps the system in a reset state. At that moment it flashes the 2 status led's alternating red and green which is described as a frag (flashing red and green)
So, desoldering the flash chip and reprogramming it is a bit short trough the corner. If you would replace the smc chip and mcpx chip at the same time, it would probably work, but I doubt you will find MCPXII chips from a trusted distributor. It's a nice bga package. Not impossible to replace, but not for the average joe.
In case you still might consider it, also bear in mind that there are 4 different motherboard revisions. 1.0 and 1.1 motherboards used a connexant video controller. The 1.0 MCPXIII chip is different from the 1.1 MCPXIII boards. 1.4 revision motherboards used a different focus video controller. 1.6 revision motherboards don't have the solderpads to increase the ram memory. So, besides the fact they use an xcalibur video encoder with buildin maskrom, they are not interesting for this purpose.
Basically, there a 7 different revisions 1.0 1.1 1.2 1.3 1.4 1.5 1.6 and 1.6b.
1.5 is so seldom seen that people often think it was just a bad production batch.
1.6 and 1.6B differ in memory chips. 1.6b used hynix chips that are slightly slower. (others use samsung)
1.2 and 1.3 boards had a smaller tsop flash chip installed. 256KB instead of 1MB on previous models.
Some models have signals removed from the LPC pin header (like the lframe)
Next, there is the challenge protocol with the smc chip that only is present on retail motherboards. It's purpose is to prevent single stepping trough the bios. After a reset, the smc chip provides 4 bytes and expect you to do a calculation with them. It finally needs 2 bytes in return. If this challenge protocol isn't furfilled within a fraction of a second, the smc chip will reset the x86 architecture so it can try again. If things go wrong for 2 or 3 times, it initially gives up and keeps the system in a reset state. At that moment it flashes the 2 status led's alternating red and green which is described as a frag (flashing red and green)
So, desoldering the flash chip and reprogramming it is a bit short trough the corner. If you would replace the smc chip and mcpx chip at the same time, it would probably work, but I doubt you will find MCPXII chips from a trusted distributor. It's a nice bga package. Not impossible to replace, but not for the average joe.
In case you still might consider it, also bear in mind that there are 4 different motherboard revisions. 1.0 and 1.1 motherboards used a connexant video controller. The 1.0 MCPXIII chip is different from the 1.1 MCPXIII boards. 1.4 revision motherboards used a different focus video controller. 1.6 revision motherboards don't have the solderpads to increase the ram memory. So, besides the fact they use an xcalibur video encoder with buildin maskrom, they are not interesting for this purpose.
Basically, there a 7 different revisions 1.0 1.1 1.2 1.3 1.4 1.5 1.6 and 1.6b.
1.5 is so seldom seen that people often think it was just a bad production batch.
1.6 and 1.6B differ in memory chips. 1.6b used hynix chips that are slightly slower. (others use samsung)
1.2 and 1.3 boards had a smaller tsop flash chip installed. 256KB instead of 1MB on previous models.
Some models have signals removed from the LPC pin header (like the lframe)
