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Sentinel Supergun - Prototype

Ok seeing the replies from @xodaraP @djsheep and @Frank_fjs has cleared up my misconceptions regarding price. In no way was I thinking this was overpriced or of lesser quality or not but was seeing that pricing was similar with HAS and why that was.

It wasn't a matter of bashing the price nor saying there was anything cheaper out there for the quality but I did wonder because I think this was quoted around the $150 mark for a deluxe pack previously and understand there has been revisions and other changes to it as well. Maybe the $255 price sent a bit of a price shock to me as expectations re price were lower initially.

Hopefully my questions have not come across as slagging off as that wasn't my intentions at all, but I had a feeling that once I posted that my confusion would be cleared up regarding those questions.

Dumb question maybe but does the Mega Drive adapter work with the Saturn controllers?

Frank_fjs said:
shipping to most countries is $28
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For Australia though this isn't the case. It's around $8 to ship anywhere in oz up to 500 grams.

In that I think its unfair to charge Aussies the full international price. No one else charges a flat costs worldwide, they all charge accordingly to where it is being sent to.
 
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I'd love a component encoder but don't think I'd have room to incorporate it, it requires quite a few components. I'm quietly working on something in the background however just don't have enough spare time to spend on it.

There are a few solutions available for RGB to component, such as the RetroVision Mega Drive component cables, the CSY-2100 or the Shinybow encoder.

The Mega Drive controller adapter only works with Mega Drive controllers, not Saturn. A separate adapter will be needed for Saturn, something I'll get around to producing at some point. One could use a HAS Saturn adapter but some of the buttons will be out of order due to the differing pinout. Conversely, my Mega Drive and Snes adapters will work on the HAS and there won't be any problems with button ordering due to the remapping feature of the HAS.

When producing a product you quickly realise it's impossible to keep everyone happy! Make it cheap and people complain about lacking features, add those features and people complain about price - you can't win! :D
 
Will you still be offering an 'assemble your own' barebones kit with just the supergun?
 
The Spaniard said:
For Australia though this isn't the case. It's around $8 to ship anywhere in oz up to 500 grams.
In that I think its unfair to charge Aussies the full international price. No one else charges a flat costs worldwide, they all charge accordingly to where it is being sent to.
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Plenty of websites sell products for a price with free shipping worldwide and charge the same price no matter where you are in the world.

You’re not being charged for shipping, you’re paying for a shipped product as a package.
 
I like to keep things simple and efficient, by charging a fixed postage rate I save a lot of time and fuss.

I'm charging at cost for postage for Australian customers which is closer to $12 and not $8 ($8.30 postage, $1.75 for a BX1 AusPost box, cost of antistatic bags, bubble wrap, package tape etc) and absorbing the loss for international orders.

I believe in the product and feel that the end price is great, no matter where you are in the world. :)
 
xodaraP said:
Plenty of websites sell products for a price with free shipping worldwide and charge the same price no matter where you are in the world.

You’re not being charged for shipping, you’re paying for a shipped product as a package.
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No I don't see it like that at all because an Australian buyer is then subsidising the cost for others.

It doesn't cost $28 to ship within Australia. Why should we here pay that extra $28? We get shafted internationally plus get shafted locally with the Australia tax?

How would you feel if I sold you the only available Hyper Fighting in Oz for $450 shipped worldwide when it costs $8-12 to send to you? I'd think you would feel taken advantage of and that it was deceitful.

Fair thing would be set the base price plus shipping. The difference in price on shipping is not a major issue, but charging more on local orders is when the cost is less is pretty unfair in my view.

Everyone bitches and whinges about paradise shipping costs but keeps their mouth's shut on this.
 
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djsheep said:
It's not really the thread to be price checking and comparing. The way I see it is that both Superguns are 2 distinctively different (and awesome) products in line with each other. The HAS is great. The Sentinel is great. It's Coke vs Pepsi, just choose your preference at this point.


ONLY for the sake of providing precise information let me correct your pricing estimate a little though:

HAS
HAS V3.2 supergun - 122 EUR
CPS1 kick harness, 45cm long (colours may vary) - 8 EUR
CPS2 kick harness, 25cm long (colours may vary) - 8 EUR
RGB to Composite Video/S-Video adapter. Based on the popular Sony CXA2075 IC - 35 EUR
Sega Saturn to JAMMA joypad converter - 32 EUR
+ Postage: (Approx?) 30 EUR
+ 4% PayPal Fees
Total: 244.4 EUR / $383.2 AUD (converted with XE.com)

SENTINEL
Sentinel including S-Video & Composite Hat + Postage - $185 AUD
Mega Drive Adapter- $25 AUD (used for comparative purposes, HAS quote is with the Saturn adapter)
CPS-1 Kick Harness - $10 AUD
CPS-2 Kick Harness - $10 AUD
Total: $230 AUD / 146.6 EUR

That leaves you with ballpark $153 AUD / 97 EUR to spend procuring a Plexi if you're making fair comparisons based on plexi/no-plexi (not features)
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Personally I also feel we basically offer two quite different products, and for the parts count on the Sentinel I think Frank's price is fair, especially because he also assembles it himself, which is a royal pain if you need to make more than just a few units.

Still, the pricing estimate above is off and I don't want people to think that HAS is so much more expensive, because it isn't:
HAS
HAS V3.2 supergun - 122 EUR
CPS1 kick harness, 45cm long (colours may vary) - 8 EUR
CPS2 kick harness, 25cm long (colours may vary) - 8 EUR
RGB to Composite Video/S-Video adapter. Based on the popular Sony CXA2075 IC - 35 EUR
+ Postage: anything between 5-20 EUR depending on your location and order value, most EU guys pay 5-8 EUR. For the order above, shipping to Australia would cost 10 EUR.
+ 4% PayPal Fees
Total: 190.32 EUR / $298.116 AUD (converted with XE.com)
SENTINEL
Sentinel including S-Video & Composite Hat + Postage - $185 AUD
CPS-1 Kick Harness - $10 AUD
CPS-2 Kick Harness - $10 AUD
Total: $205 AUD / 130.84 EUR

The difference is 93.116 AUD / 59 EUR - the difference is still there of course, but it's not 97 EUR. You pay for some more features, plexi and the fact the PCB I order is manufactured in Germany/Hungary, Europe.

I removed the Saturn and Mega Drive adapters from the pricing because they're not the same thing and comparing them isn't fair, because the Saturn adapter costs way more in parts, the Saturn controller port costs around 10 EUR and it still needs to be desoldered from the PCB, cleaned and cut.
 
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Hey @RGB, I've actually got composite and s-video on the same hat now, so the price for the Sentinel comes down by $25 in your example.

I don't see anything wrong with either of our prices. I think it's hard for people who don't produce such products to understand the costs involved.
 
Ah, just noticed you actually offer two different video hats with composite.
 
Frank_fjs said:
I think it's hard for people who don't produce such products to understand the costs involved.
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That is a completely unfair assumption you have made. I don't appreciate that at all. I didn't knock your costs or your time to develop it.
 
How would this compare to the Retroelectronik Progamer? I ordered one from retroelectronik.com but Fabien never mailed or refunded the 135.30 EUR I paid. Fabien and his associate also do not communicate with anyone so I doubt I will ever see that supergun (full story here). I need a supergun with screw terminal inputs, is that possible with this supergun? Also other screw terminals for power would also be handy for the setup I am trying to rig.
 
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Quick and easy way to add screw terminals to any DB15 supergun:

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biggestsonicfan said:
Frank_fjs said:
Quick and easy way to add screw terminals to any DB15 supergun:
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Oh! Interesting! Next question: is the output true VGA or is it CGA which needs conversion? And is the option of scanlines available?
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Neither, the DB15 connectors are controller inputs ;)

The screw terminal adapter shown allows you to adapt any controller you want to work on the supergun

DB15HD is the connector for VGA, I believe in this case it’s 15k and designed for connection to a OSSC
 
Er, my questions were in regards to the supergun itself, not adapter posted....I'm not even sure how you could come to that conclusion from such unrelated components...

In due fairness, I asked for a comparison between superguns and got an adapter posted. I was merely trying to continue my investigation of differences and knew the adapter was for the joystick inputs...
 
The VGA video hat doesn't output a VGA 31kHz signal. It outputs 15kHz RGB and is designed for direct connection to an OSSC.
 
The Retroelektronic devices don't have a video buffer. They also don't handle bringing the speaker level output of the jamma audio to line level. In fact a friend messaged me regarding this the other day, his Neo-Geo MVS board now has a fried sound amp as does his TV. Upon investigation the Retroelektronic supergun was found to be the culprit.
 
My only supergun I bought back in mid 2017 was Retroeletronik now I dont get sound output from it. Happy to see better products available now which are driven by the community.

If you are looking for screw terminals for each buttons and lines (video and audio) like Retroelektronic - the schematics of Sentinel doesnt show it. You might want to buy a Jamma breakoutboard - I cant find any examples online at the moment.
 
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