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Sentinel Supergun - Prototype

Just an idea... How do people feel about this layout?

ATX power on the right, angled kick harness connector on the left and 2 x Neo controller ports, Mega-Drive/Genesis 2 DIN and s-video DIN on the rear edge.

No separate video board for composite video and s-video, it will all be contained on the main PCB.

Composite video to be available from the Mega-Drive 2 DIN via standard Sega 5 pin AV cable or via scart cable wired as composite video as sync. This also means I can include a switch so one can choose sync straight from the arcade game or the regenerated sync from the RGB to composite conversion. The generated composite video will be cleaned and that stripped signal can be selected for sync.

Would need to add audio RCA breakouts for the s-video or perhaps even better, a 3.5mm headphone style jack.
 

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I think that looks better too. I did want to ask, why the need for composite? Isn't it better to run anything above that for output?

Thinking about the buttons for coin and test etc, the closer to an edge they can be the better for easy access to them with your fingers. Although is there no way to make it a button combo for test? Ie start, select, 3 kick buttons or coin from the joystick buttons such as select/options from an external USB stick?
 
Regarding composite, I guess it's just nice to have options available for people without access to RGB monitors. I'd like to keep it as well as s-video as s-video looks gorgeous, just a pity it's not a common format. Their presence doesn't impact on RGB output, it may even be advantageous to have a generated composite video signal as this presents another option for sync. I may consider ditching s-video to reduce parts and save space, plus I won't have to deal with separate audio outputs, but the image is exceptionally good so I kind of want to retain it. I could always utilise the existing Mega Drive 2 DIN for audio output to be used when utilising an s-video output. E.g. just use a Mega Drive RCA AV cable to extract audio when using an s-video cable. If I redesign the main PCB to incorporate the composite / s-video components then costs are reduced as I don't need to pay for a separate video hat PCB. If people don't want anything other than RGB they have the option of saving money as I simply won't populate the PCB with the components required for composite / s-video. I could even use the Sony CXA2075 which is being used for the RGBS to composite / s-video conversion as an RGB video buffer negating the need for a separate RGB amp such as the THS7316.

A lot to digest but I think I may be on to something.

Regarding inputs, what you're proposing would required a microcontroller of some form to interpret and output those button combos accordingly, as well as a rewire as TEST and SERVICE aren't connected to the controller ports. It's possible to incorporate but possibly more hassle than it's worth. It's not really an issue as START and COIN are available from the controllers and the only other main button that is used it TEST. I've never had a problem accessing these buttons from the supergun PCB.
 
So... Here's what I'm currently thinking for a revised layout.

RGB and composite video available from mini 9 DIN.

Separate s-video connector.

3.5mm audio jack as an additional audio output. Mainly there to cater to audio when utilising s-video. Switched connector so when a cable is inserted it cuts the audio to the DIN.

Power switch bottom left and kick harness connector middle right edge.

I think it would work well. Thoughts?
 

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Frank_fjs said:
Regarding inputs, what you're proposing would required a microcontroller of some form to interpret and output those button combos accordingly, as well as a rewire as TEST and SERVICE aren't connected to the controller ports. It's possible to incorporate but possibly more hassle than it's worth. It's not really an issue as START and COIN are available from the controllers and the only other main button that is used it TEST. I've never had a problem accessing these buttons from the supergun PCB.
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The access to the test button shouldn't posse any access issues but, some hacked roms do freeze and need a reset or to enter into the test menu to reset.

Also I see that at game meetups you would definitely need an extension harness as I think people pressing on the test button can flex the jamma connector placing stress on it.

If you can consider adding this feature that would be great.
 
Would u consider incorporate terminal blocks for powering from arcade psu?
 
ita123 said:
Would u consider incorporate terminal blocks for powering from arcade psu?
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Maybe, if there's room. Not a big fan of terminal blocks though. Would rather a plug / connector.

Still re-arranging the layout to make things more accessible and less cluttered.

I make my own ATX to arcade PSU cable, attached a picture for reference. Either way the option to use an arcade PSU is there.
 

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It works well. Convenience of just plugging the ATX connector in. Colour coded forked terminals for easy attachment to arcade PSU, red to +5V, yellow to +12V, white to -5V and black to ground. Quality 18 gauge wiring rated to 10 Amps. I may even run 2 wires for +5V and ground which will easily handle any arcade board's power requirements.
 
Frank_fjs said:
It works well. Convenience of just plugging the ATX connector in. Colour coded forked terminals for easy attachment to arcade PSU, red to +5V, yellow to +12V, white to -5V and black to ground. Quality 18 gauge wiring rated to 10 Amps. I may even run 2 wires for +5V and ground which will easily handle any arcade board's power requirements.
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Better safe than sorry ;)
 
While its true RGB really nailed the design of the HAS, I still feel it has room for improvements.

I would like to see a jumper added that can move buttons 4/5 from the JAMMA edge connector to a CPS2 kick harness connector (this would solve the Vampire issue on CPS2).
I would like someone to integrate a OSSC directly, on the same PCB (its open source so this is totally doable but no one thinks it's worth the effort).
I would like a supergun to integrate a JVS IO with USB header on the PCB itself (cloning the Capcom IO commands/IDs to play games like CvS2 and Powerstone2).
 
jassin000 said:
I would like someone to integrate a OSSC directly, on the same PCB (its open source so this is totally doable but no one thinks it's worth the effort).

I would like a supergun to integrate a JVS IO with USB header on the PCB itself (cloning the Capcom IO commands/IDs to play games like CvS2 and Powerstone2).
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To me neither of these make sense from a supergun standpoint. The first kneecaps OSSC so you can't run anything else through it, probably every single owner of a OSSC uses it for multiple inputs and the second would be problematic at best, there are JVS games that don't work with specific JVS boards.
 
sammargh said:
The first kneecaps OSSC so you can't run anything else through it
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I didn't say to remove the input ports from the design of the OSSC, I just said integrate it at the PCB level.
sammargh said:
there are JVS games that don't work with specific JVS boards
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Right, and you couldn't support everything... But if you stuck with DB15 ports for joysticks you could automatically axe support for any/all driving setups and light gun games.
Then since you've only got two DB15 ports, axe any 4-player JVS support too.

In the end you'll only be supporting 16 digital buttons and 2x 4 way digital joysticks, not compatible with everything JVS, but it also wouldn't be logical to support more as you could never connect/control it anyway.
 
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I like the idea of disabling buttons 4,5,6 from the jamma edge and shifting them to the kick harness. I wanted to do this but simply ran out of room in the current design. I am working on a new layout which shifts things around and incorporates a 6 way dipswitch to enable / disable those inputs from the jamma edge. Also useful for the Chinese multiboards that break jamma standard. I included this function in a jamma pass-through I recently developed too.

The other two ideas aren't something I'd consider. The cost, complexity and physical size of the PCB(s) wouldn't make it worthwhile from a financial standpoint and would be too much work for a single person to develop and produce.
 
Frank_fjs said:
The other two ideas aren't something I'd consider. The cost, complexity and physical size of the PCB(s) wouldn't make it worthwhile from a financial standpoint and would be too much work for a single person to develop and produce.
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I get the OSSC integration part, I mean I'd still love to see it... But I understand your point.

When I think about the JVS IO tho, so much groundwork has already been laid down in that area (take this statement with the applicable salt, I'm not saying I could do it).
Would it really be that complex to integrate a switchable (enable/disable) digital 16B-2J JVS IO with USB header/JVS power connectors onto the supergun PCB itself?

It would make your supergun stand out for two major reasons...
  • No one has ever done this yet, but it's a logical addition. (Double so for someone using a ATX PSU that already has 3.3v, you wouldn't need to convert it like Capcom IO dose and it could likely satisfy a Sega DIMM).
  • The Capcom IO's is the next easiest way to IO/supergun a Naomi. (which is clunky/big as it still requires at minimum an adapter that almost resembles a supergun anyway.)
I think its a non-issue with a FastIO, its compact enough already just to plug into a supergun like yours and only useful for X2/3/ultra new Taito stuff that has its own integrated PSUs.
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I would suggest a JVS Supergun needs to be an entirely different product rather than trying to integrate it onto a JAMMA based Supergun for a couple of reasons

While JVS is the next logical step, it's also an entirely new standard with its own quirks and a fair amount of work goes into converting JAMMA signals to run on a JVS setup and vice versa.

So for the same reason as the OSSC integration this would mean a substantially larger, more expensive, more difficult to produce board

Extending on that, JVS has a ridiculous amount of different revisions, each with different instruction sets and many of them are not compatible with each other.

There's also custom JVS stuff for things like light gun games, driving games etc

You know yourself from your Vewlix cabs that you need to own several IO boards just to boot the stuff designed for those cabs. It's nuts.

Even on early JVS like my Cyberlead, there's 4 known revisions of I/O board and many games won't run on 1-3 of those

The Sentinel is looking great so far, RGB as well as composite output, headphone audio for stereo/mono support, kick harness connector on board, and the screenshots Frank has sent me so far look awesome even on composite.

It's a great option especially for those of us in Australia :P
 
xodaraP said:
The Sentinel is looking great so far, RGB as well as composite output, headphone audio for stereo/mono support, kick harness connector on board, and the screenshots Frank has sent me so far look awesome even on composite
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I'm not putting anyone down, but to me right now it looks no different than RGB's HAS... So why would I buy one of these over his product?
Unless I can be swayed with a super low sticker price, I'm just not going to.

You need to come up with a feature that no one else has, but everyone wants or at least could make use of, you need to be unique... Otherwise why bother?
 
jassin000 said:
xodaraP said:
The Sentinel is looking great so far, RGB as well as composite output, headphone audio for stereo/mono support, kick harness connector on board, and the screenshots Frank has sent me so far look awesome even on composite
Click to expand...
I'm not putting anyone down, but to me right now it looks no different than RGB's HAS... So why would I buy one of these over his product?Unless I can be swayed with a super low sticker price, I'm just not going to.

You need to come up with a feature that no one else has, but everyone wants or at least could make use of, you need to be unique... Otherwise why bother?
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Aurich said:
jassin000 said:
I'm not putting anyone down, but to me right now it looks no different than RGB's HAS... So why would I buy one of these over his product?
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Because you can't get one? I mean, I have a HAS, but I know people who want a supergun and I can't just point them to his store and say "here, this is good, buy it"
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I agree with both to a point. As a guy with a little time to wait, I'm waiting for the HAS because it only costs a little bit more... but I have friends who may not want to wait and want the cheapest. I'd say if you do this, make it as cheaper from the HAS as possible and always in stock, that way sales will be steady.

If the price creeps up to HAS levels, even if you have it in stock more often, you need to go ahead and do something to stand out. Now if JVS pushes the prices past HAS, heck it might be worth it to some...
 
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