Can't stay still, but I'm going to do this thing anyway

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    • Can't stay still, but I'm going to do this thing anyway

      Hello all,

      I have the luxury (or the curse) to be traveling back and forth between the US (Hawaii) and Japan pretty much every month. What this means is that I never really have the time to settle in and build / setup / play anything. And yet, I keep slowly collecting boards. . .

      I used to have a reasonable collection. Nothing over the top, but a few classic stand up cabinets, and a Japanese sit down (Taito Egret 1, god I loved that thing), but of course with all the moving around, I had to sell them all a couple decades ago.

      It's finally looking like I'll have a little more time to devote to getting my boards up and running, and so I'm starting out again, trying to figure out what collecting and running them looks like in 2018. I'm intrigued with the OSSC, and have begun trying to figure out exactly what it will take to make that work with a "normal" HDMI display. Was going to design a supergun of my own, but after a bit of research I'm now hoping to purchase a HAS (or 3), and will then put my time into designing some slim cabinets to hold it all.

      Hope that's not too long. Really looking forward to hanging out with like minded folks, and thank you all for everything here that's already posted. Has helped immensely.

      J "Fireball"
    • Fireball wrote:

      I'm intrigued with the OSSC, and have begun trying to figure out exactly what it will take to make that work with a "normal" HDMI display.
      If by "normal" HDMI display, you mean a 1080p display that only accepts a pure 60hz sync via HDMI, you exactly need a iScan DVDO VP30 (or VP50 or VP50 Pro).

      Welcome :D
      Darksoft: CPS3, ST-V, CPS2, F3, MVS
      RGB: RECO v2, HAS v3


      [genesis] [segacd] [saturn] [dreamcast_ss] [nes-101] [snes] [n64] [gamecube] [pce] [pcecd] [psx]
    • Welcome to the party! :)
      Cabs: Vewlix C x4, Groove Coaster 3, ID7, DinoKing, Swing, Capcom Cute
      Multis: CPS1│CPS2│CPS3│ST-V│F3│GNET│TTX2│NAOMI│MVS
      Superguns: Jasen's MK30ADCAP│RGB's HASv3.1
      Displays: PVM 2950Q│Pioneer PDP-V402E│LG B6 65" Oled
      Scalers/Misc: OSSC│VP50Pro│Gscartsw │Hydra

      Wanted Cabs: Egret 29, Egret II, AWSD
      Wanted Part: SFII Dynamo HS5 "Cut Corner" CP, Egret 29 Complete CP top (blue or red)
    • Thanks all, and especially jassin for stepping right up,

      jassin000 wrote:


      Fireball wrote:

      I'm intrigued with the OSSC, and have begun trying to figure out exactly what it will take to make that work with a "normal" HDMI display.
      If by "normal" HDMI display, you mean a 1080p display that only accepts a pure 60hz sync via HDMI, you exactly need a iScan DVDO VP30 (or VP50 or VP50 Pro).
      Welcome :D
      I do think I was aware of these boxes once upon a time, but was never able to get ahold of one. I ended up buying an XRGB Framemeister that I use for console gaming, but wasn't planning on getting any more older scalers. Seems like they're long out of production now anyway.

      I understand that OSSC is more of a "line doubler" as opposed to a true scaler, and that's how it achieves it's phenomenal speed, but it does seem like it should do this job. Even here in "new supergun sets", you yourself posted about HAS -> OSSC -> LCD (I'm assuming over HDMI / DVI) as being a great option. Is there any particular reason I should be steering toward the DVDO boxes instead?

      Although I'm pretty technical, I guess I'm just not 100% clear about the idiosyncrasies / incompatibilities of the signal flow that needs to happen on the video side.

      Keeping in mind that these are meant to in custom designed stand-up cabinets and NOT a Supergun -> TV living room type setup, My current concept is to do the following.

      (video) JAMMA -> HAS 3.1 SCART -> OSSC 1.6 -> (HDMI) LCD Monitor or Reasonable refresh TV
      (audio) JAMMA -> Wire Loom (attenuator?) -> Amplifier -> Speakers

      I'd like to use the OSSC if possible to keep the guts of the system small and they are readily available in volume, but also because I already own them. I thought keeping the audio in the analogue domain would be preferable for me, but that's the only reason why it's like this. Very open to suggestions.

      Again, I really appreciate the assistance as I figure all this stuff out.
    • Fireball wrote:

      I understand that OSSC is more of a "line doubler" as opposed to a true scaler, and that's how it achieves it's phenomenal speed, but it does seem like it should do this job. Even here in "new supergun sets", you yourself posted about HAS -> OSSC -> LCD (I'm assuming over HDMI / DVI) as being a great option. Is there any particular reason I should be steering toward the DVDO boxes instead?
      No you misunderstand me, I'm saying the majority of LCD displays suffer from this "60.0hz only" input rule, but not all...
      IF you have a LCD that IS (likely) enforcing this rule (ie demands input device use 1920x1080@60) you'll need a iScan DVDO to reliably sync some arcade PCBs, but not all PCBs...

      Look at the nature of the devices for your answer.
      As you mentioned the OSSC is a line doubler only, because of this it can't change the sync produced by whatever you are doubling.
      This is especially problematic with arcade PCBs that had all sorts of wacky/non-standard syncs back in the day.
      It should be mentioned however that even the SNES has been giving people lots of black screens with its 60.1hz output (I shit you not, a ton of LCDs are THIS picky).

      The DVDO isn't used or needed because of its scaling abilities, in fact truth be told your going to disable all of them anyway in an attempt to add as little lag as possible.
      No what you want the iScan for is its "magic" sync adjusting properties!
      You'll input a raw 1920x1080@58.8 from the HAS (just for example this is what R-Type M72 produces) the DVDO will grab this frame buffer it out to be 1920x1080@60 and pass it to the TV (that will now display something other than a black screen).
      It also had the handy ability to inject external digital audio into a HDMI line, so if you have a version 1.5 OSSC that lacked digital audio natively you could add it back in (no longer a feature you need with a 1.6).

      What's the gold standard?
      Well like everything in life that depends on who you ask... If you're asking me?

      Arcade PCB -> HAS3.1 -> OSSC1.6 -> LG B6 OLED
      5x Scaling, 1600x1200@whateverthehellyouwantnoiscanneeded


      You see the B6 OLED isn't one of these common displays that enforces 60.0hz, it just accepts everything (you don't need to mess around with DVDO and you get >1080p <4K output).
      Put in a request, if I have the PCB I'll display it on the B6 and post 'em up.
      Darksoft: CPS3, ST-V, CPS2, F3, MVS
      RGB: RECO v2, HAS v3


      [genesis] [segacd] [saturn] [dreamcast_ss] [nes-101] [snes] [n64] [gamecube] [pce] [pcecd] [psx]

      The post was edited 12 times, last by jassin000 ().

    • jassin000 wrote:

      No what you want the iScan for is its "magic" sync adjusting properties!
      You'll input a raw 1920x1080@58.8 from the HAS (just for example this is what R-Type M72 produces) the DVDO will grab this frame buffer it out to be 1920x1080@60 and pass it to the TV (that will now display something other than a black screen).
      And the light bulb comes on!

      Thanks for sticking with me dude, and I love you used R-Type for the example because that is exactly the board I just picked up that has spurred this rekindled interest in actually playing as opposed to just looking at them. ;)

      I guess the reason this hasn't bit me yet is that I've been using a Samsung LCD monitor with my OSSC for testing on the game consoles. Because it's made for PCs, seems it's also pretty forgiving as far as sync rates
    • I hope I got that 58.8 exactly right since you quoted me on it. ;)
      It's for sure in the 50's tho, my Diamond's LCD NEEDED the iScan DVDO (I've got the VP30).



      Street Fighter III 3rd Strike CPS3 didn't need anything special to sync, I've found that syncs just sub 60.0 (like 59.56) are more accepted than above (like 60.1).

      Darksoft: CPS3, ST-V, CPS2, F3, MVS
      RGB: RECO v2, HAS v3


      [genesis] [segacd] [saturn] [dreamcast_ss] [nes-101] [snes] [n64] [gamecube] [pce] [pcecd] [psx]

      The post was edited 1 time, last by jassin000 ().

    • Got it. I won't hold you to anything, but again, really appreciate the assistance.

      Slightly off topic, that's a beautiful layout with the full set of Taito paraphernalia. I do find it hilarious that folks go to such lengths to reproduce the Japanese "Game Center" experience in other places. If you ever need medals or towels or the branded plastic bags for UFO catcher winnings, let me know. They're right down the street from me here and it's no trouble.

      The opposite happens as well. There's a gentleman here who's passion is collecting old plywood standup from the US. He's only open one day a week, but it's funny to walk into an arcade here in Osaka and be confronted by so much black t-slot! He has some pictures up on his Facebook at Game Center Kinako if you're interested. That's also literally 3 traffic lights away from the house here. . . (god I'm spoiled)

      My standups (hopefully) are going to be much more inspired by US styling from the late 80s - early 90s, but specifically I'm researching the prototypes and "Artists Conceptions" of the day to make it more of a "what could have been", will certainly keep everyone up to date once I start building.
    • Fireball wrote:

      Slightly off topic, that's a beautiful layout with the full set of Taito paraphernalia. I do find it hilarious that folks go to such lengths to reproduce the Japanese "Game Center" experience in other places. If you ever need medals or towels or the branded plastic bags for UFO catcher winnings, let me know. They're right down the street from me here and it's no trouble.
      When I visited Japan I was very tempted to take this red/white "Game Station" rug/welcome mat that was at the back of this totally unguarded entrance.
      I bent down to pretend tie my shoe to have a closer look at it, and honestly to see if maybe I could roll it up and shove it in my backpack real quick haha.
      It became pretty clear I wasn't going to get this thing without at least one person seeing it go down, as I didn't know what exactly would happen (Jesus in Japan theft is prob death if I got caught or something) I didn't mess with it.

      I did change in a bunch of Yen for Taito tokens (at one of the last Game Stations that did tokens, most use cards now) only I didn't spend them I took a bucket home for my machines. :D
      Darksoft: CPS3, ST-V, CPS2, F3, MVS
      RGB: RECO v2, HAS v3


      [genesis] [segacd] [saturn] [dreamcast_ss] [nes-101] [snes] [n64] [gamecube] [pce] [pcecd] [psx]