Running Wangan Midnight with Namco IO on Chihiro without a proper driving cabinet, ghetto style + netboot

[Finisterre]

I recently got a ChiHiro Type 3, and I've been playing around trying to get something working on my bench sans a proper cabinet.
The whole gun landscape is intimidating so I settled on messing with driving a bit more.

My plan was for the Thrustmaster T80 I rigged up in a previous post to hopefully be something I could use.
Modding Thrustmaster T80 (Ferrari 488 GTB Edition) for Crazy Taxi and Jambo Safari

The Wangan Midnight Maximum Tune series looked fun, and the IO boards were cheap on eBay vs other Namco games, so I picked one up.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Namco-orig...imum-Tune-3-FCA2-B-PCB-I-O-board/263738423520

I'd up to this point seen or heard of an FCA, and FCB, and FCB2, and a V290, but really had no clue what the differences were.

Figuring out what I got was fairly daunting, but the video of Luke explaing "How To Wire A Namco FCA PCB 8662969102" was a solid foundation to get started

A secondary video by Silverfox0786 is equally useful in getting the lay of the landscape.

Several of the variants are also described here: https://wiki.arcadeotaku.com/w/Namco_System_246/256#I.2FO_Boards

Going through historic posts I found all kinds of semi useful comments like "each of these two games use different I/O and FFB board."
Help with Namco Steering Force Feedback Board (WMMT1/2 and Mario Kart 1/2)

My goal was ultimately the same as @winteriscoming (in a nutshell) "I'm trying to use the NAMCO board for netbooted WMMT (1 or 2)."
Help with Namco Steering Force Feedback Board (WMMT1/2 and Mario Kart 1/2)

I didnt really care about the FFB (Force Feedback), more so the IO, so I could drive! Likewise it was clear that I could just disable the FFB output setting, and the game didn't care.

When I purchased the board from eBay I specifically noted that it shipped with Dipswitches 1 and 2 on, and 4 through 6 off. I mention this as it was sold as being specifically for Mignight Tune:
"Namco original arcade Wangan Midnight Maximum Tune 3 FCA2 B PCB I/O board"



The MAME driver of course had a great amount of detail on the board specifically saying:
"V290 FCB PCB is almost identical to FCA PCB. The main differences are changed internal MCU code & PIC code,
some extra/different connectors, less D1017 driver transistors and an added RS-232 IC.
The V290 FCB PCB is used with touchscreen games such as Dragon Chronicles, Druaga Online, Idol Master etc.
It supports a serial touchscreen interface, card readers and buttons.
The additional devices are supported via J108 which connects to another PCB 'XOU020-A' which contains a
Texas Instruments TMS32VC540x DSP, TSOP32 flash ROM and other components."
https://github.com/mamedev/mame/blob/master/src/mame/drivers/namcops2.cpp#L614

Although the board is noted as being a touch screen board for other specific games, I had to take the sellers word that it was actually a Midnight Tune board.

I started poking through the Namco manual for the game that I found here: https://www.bandainamco-am.co.uk/files/38 I used the "Base Assy" schematic in the section 11 "Wiring Diagrams" to highlight the proper pinout for my "FCA2 PCB Assy(1/2)" as laid out within.



Since folks before me seemed skeptical about pinout documentation I decided to manually verify the pins. I did this by using both the JVS and Game Test menus, while I ground out suspected pins (after checking them for 5v and 12v)

As I went through this process I took notes on a printed copy of the schematic, and I labeled the pigtail jumpers as well.

It was fairly easy to see the 7 ADC inputs, and Rotarys, when grounded in the JVS test menu they would go to all 0000 or all FFFF making it easy to note the pin. Some of the others alter bits in the Player1 or Coin and System fields, all and all it was very easy to map. Similarly the in game test menu provided more insight about which signals were being mapped properly for example to "gas".

I also had to go into the game settings and disable the card reader, and the wheel feedback, but beyond that, getting to the point of *driving* was fairly trivial to accomplish. I'm going to need to find some better pots for this cheap wheel though!

When the game boots it will wait stating: "CHECKING..." PCB ID:3 and PCB ID:4 after about 60 seconds it will boot. Both PCB 3 and 4 will fail, then it should start right up.



Press the Gas pedal to start.



I'll try to add more notes to making this a successful thing for others. I wanted to document what I know now, before it leaves my brain!

This should hopefully help others feel more comfortable pinning out these Namco boards on other games as well. An example is this post on IdolM@ster. Looking for some help with 256 wiring and additional PCBs

You could probably do the same with the Triforce Mario Kart and an NA-JV (V239) board FWIW. The pinout is here: https://www.bandainamco-am.co.uk/files/37

Note the similarity in how the pinout is documented.


At the very least, now, you can have Ghetto style Maximum Tune too! I didn't go into the detail of net booting, but it should be noted that this game is one that resets its IP to something different. You WILL want to be in the right IP range.
The solution I used is documented here: Games that reassign ip address after netbooting

 

[Blackfish]

You could probably do the same with the Triforce Mario Kart and an NA-JV (V239) board FWIW. The pinout is here: bandainamco-am.co.uk/files/37

Thanks for this post! It was the missing pieces of the puzzle of the NAJV2 board pin out I was after. If you compare the pin out of the NA-JV (M) versus the NAJV2 which is found in the Namco Noir cabinets you now have the complete pin out of the 2 boards I believe. I haven't actually checked this but it does look very promising at this stage and if I get some time on the weekend I will have a look at it further.

If this is correct it should allow Namco Noir owners to get full compatibility out of their TTX2 multi's by adding the coin counter 2 resistor in that causing JVS faults with a lot of the games. It should also allow for full mapping of the NAJV2 IO board. It could also allow for the use of analogue controls in the Namco Noir cabs when running it with a Naomi.

Here is the Tekken 6 manual that includes a diagram of the cabinet wiring and NAJV2 board.View attachment Tekken 6.pdf

 

[jassin000]

Haha that ghetto driving setup is awesome!
I've always wanted to put something like that together for F-Zero AX on Triforce.

 

[Finisterre]

Haha that ghetto driving setup is awesome!
I've always wanted to put something like that together for F-Zero AX on Triforce.

This is on my list as well... I honestly need to take a moment and look at the original cabinet setup to grok the inputs.

I know there is some detail here in the "fixed" thread: TRIFORCE: F-Zero AX fixed version

It wasn't clear to me if the original control was a "yoke"? if so I'll go buy a yoke and get it pinned out and tested.

If I push forward on the stick does it move? is that for "pitch" control, or elevators if you are in a traditional aircraft? It also has pedals for "yaw" or rudder I assume?



Is there another manual besides the one that @winteriscoming posted showing the 13551 jvs io wired in? "The wiring diagram shows it using the Sega MIDI board, not the Namco one wiki.arcadeotaku.com/images/6/6d/FZeroSTDWiring.pdf"

Are there known configurations using the Namco FCBs also?

 

[Mitsurugi-w]

The "yoke" for F Zero both moves up and down for height and turns left and right like a wheel. Hard to replicate outside of the original cab.

FWIW most of these games boot and play fine with Sega I/Os and don't require the expensive Namco I/Os.

 

[Finisterre]

Seems pretty trivial with standard flight equipment... that is just how yokes work. Simple example would be this Saitek Pro. You can see the pots next to the gearing mechanisms. The bigger question is what the paddles do for in game play. That may determine if I hunt for one with built in paddles vs. not.

https://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Sai...440800&sr=8-1-fkmr1&keywords=site+flight+yoke

I'd need to use the spare pedals I have laying around for yaw on this particular model as well. IF I went that route.



You could even nerd out like this

https://www.amazon.com/Wheel-Stand-...40928&sr=8-1-spons&keywords=flight+yoke&psc=1

After some hunting, it looks like the paddles are used to Strafe, so you would indeed want properly placed paddles or buttons in the expected positions (or close by)

"Strafe: Push the yellow paddles that are behind the steering wheel. These are digital inputs, so you can't press them partway"
https://yoshifan28.blogspot.com/2017/04/f-zero-ax-mechanics-differences-from-gx.html

Likewise looks like those are NOT yaw paddles (like you'd need for Airline Pilot), they are just standard brake and gas.

 

[arcadeWC]

Ok - this is really leading up to what has been a goal of my for quite some time. I have a S-JIHP as well with Operation Thunderbolt guns on it that works great with all the Sega hardware, however, they take up a lot of CP space and you really need some space between the CP and the screen (pedestal cabinet preferred). I have also struggled to get a steering wheel modded to work with the S-JIHP.
What I really envision is having free style guns that work with all the Sega hardware net boot and Lindbergh (i.e. Aimtrak or otherwise) and also having a custom design CP panel (Naomi style) that has a steering wheel on it (USB or otherwise) and also a flight stick one so you can swap CP for the game to be played; which is what the Naomi universals were designed to do. Three CPs total would be needed (steering wheel - and pedals, flight stick, and two player - six button) and you can net boot or switch between hardware and swap out the CP panels as needed. Through in a fishing panel, baseball panel, and a few other speciality ones, and you can literally play any Sega hardware game (Naomi, Triforce, Chihiro, Lindbergh) on ONE universal cabinet. The Mega JVS is out there as well as discussion of getting USB peripherals to work with JVS. I don't have the space for dedicated driving cabinets, etc., the ability to play all the games on one cabinet by switching panels is the real goal (including driving games). So if someone came up with a concept of which a steering wheel would be incorporated into a universal Naomi panel and connect to JVS - it would be a big deal in my mind. Change out the CP and you are playing Crazy Taxi, then Maze of Kings, then Marvel vs. Capcom - all in one setting and by simply throwing in a different CP for the game of choice; no adjustments within the cabinet. I think the ability is there, just need to consolidate some concepts and have a set design that could be duplicated or sold on a semi-larger scale for those that do net booting of Sega hardware. The shooting sensors are expensive and you have to find a place to mount them and a specialized bezel that doesn't look as good when playing non-shooting games. I hope the concept of USB to JVS for steering wheels and guns really gets completed and perhaps someone can find the means of getting a few standard/popular USB devices onto a custom Naomi panel and sell as buy this panel and play all Sega (Naomi and above) gun games, driving games, flight games, fighting games, etc. Sorry - just wanted to share or see if anyone else is thinking this and if it can be considered a viable concept or goal at some point. It is mine and hope to see it come to reality at some point; universal Naomi/Chihiro/Triforce/Lindbergh cabinet. A super Sega arcade cabinet of sorts with net booting for the three systems and a multi HDD for the Lindbergh with all peripherals covered.

 

[winteriscoming]

Is there another manual besides the one that @winteriscoming posted showing the 13551 jvs io wired in? "The wiring diagram shows it using the Sega MIDI board, not the Namco one wiki.arcadeotaku.com/images/6/6d/FZeroSTDWiring.pdf"

Are there known configurations using the Namco FCBs also?

F-Zero only uses the Sega MIDI FFB. My experience messing with driving games the past few years has taught me that generally these games are made with one set of supported hardware, which makes it harder to have a home use multi-driver cab. This is what has lead to a lot of my arcade projects.

 

[Finisterre]

Oh I just noticed @lukemorse1 is here just like everyone else prominent in the scene... thanks for posting what you did brother. That helped me loads in getting this to function!

 

[lukemorse1]

Oh I just noticed @lukemorse1 is here just like everyone else prominent in the scene... thanks for posting what you did brother. That helped me loads in getting this to function!

No worries at all.
Everyone here helps eachother out a lot.
Ive personally been able to fix a lot of my own stuff here with the help of @Darksoft, @Apocalypse, just to name a couple , so if there is a chance to offer up some info to help someone else in return, keeping it to yourself and not giving back is a bit unfair.

 

[lukemorse1]

Also keep in mind that Chihiro, Naomi, Triforce, and Lindbergh can all use pretty much the same sega I/O without the need to have a separate I/O or Namco specific one. Going with a sega I/O will be your best shot.

Some of the wiring for specific controls is needed for games like F-Zero, Wild Riders, 2 Spicy, and Alien Front which are particularly challenging but as for steering, gas. Acceleration, and start controls, all of these can work cross platform plug and play.

Some lindy games require newer I/Os to play games and wont work with the older ones.

 

[lukemorse1]

On my current home made driving rig I am running these games with just the connection of a few wires.
It took a lot of time to be able to play these games now with ease but really convenient. (takes about a minute to swap between any of these games):

Connected to my driving set up are:

3 Sega Lindbergh Systems.
3 Triforce Systems.
1 Chihiro System.
2 Naomi 1 Systems (not necessary but they are running Wave Runner GP and Alien Front)
1 Naomi 2 System
*1 Atomiswave System (specially wired and uses its own I/O)

Games Running/easily playable:

Sega Race Tv
F-Zero
Mario Kart GP 1/2
Wild Riders
18 Wheeler
King Of Route 66
Initial D 4
Initial D 5
Waverunner GP
Wangan Maximum Tunned 1/2
Outrun 2
Outrun 2 SP
Jambo Safari
Alien Front
*Maximum Speed/Faster Than Speed

Just off the top of my head.

 

[Finisterre]

Also keep in mind that Chihiro, Naomi, Triforce, and Lindbergh can all use pretty much the same sega I/O without the need to have a separate I/O or Namco specific one. Going with a sega I/O will be your best shot.

Some of the wiring for specific controls is needed for games like F-Zero, Wild Riders, 2 Spicy, and Alien Front which are particularly challenging but as for steering, gas. Acceleration, and start controls, all of these can work cross platform plug and play.

Some lindy games require newer I/Os to play games and wont work with the older ones.

Indeed. I do have a few Sega IO variants. I like exploring hardware just for the fun of it. Having several working variants is good. These boards can be found for $25 for example... quite a bit cheaper than the Sega IO's.

Thanks for the extra detail! I'm trying to do like you and just leave some notes aside for others to find.

 

[Finisterre]

...
2 Naomi 1 Systems (not necessary but they are running Wave Runner GP and Alien Front)
1 Naomi 2 System
...
Games Running/easily playable:

Sega Race Tv
F-Zero
Mario Kart GP 1/2
Wild Riders
18 Wheeler
King Of Route 66
Initial D 4
Initial D 5
Waverunner GP
Wangan Maximum Tunned 1/2
Outrun 2
Outrun 2 SP
Jambo Safari
Alien Front
*Maximum Speed/Faster Than Speed

Just off the top of my head.

I'd certainly be interested in what you are doing for Alien Front, that is also on my list of things to mess with. Likewise F-Zero and Mario kart. I have a legit 18 Wheeler cab on the way now, and I plan to play around swapping the wheel and mech out to make it *more* compatible with the other games. The large wheel and belt drive are not the best for those tight corners. =]

Do you have any photos of your Alien Front rig?

 

[lukemorse1]

Nice get on the 18 wheeler cab for sure and I totally agree about the giant wheel.

As for pictures of my Alien Front set up, all you can see is the board as the wires are tucked away.

What I can tell you about that game though is you will need a couple extra buttons for firing and 2 switches for left and right strafe.
Other than that, you can use a regular driving set up for it.

 

[lukemorse1]

Seems pretty trivial with standard flight equipment... that is just how yokes work. Simple example would be this Saitek Pro. You can see the pots next to the gearing mechanisms. The bigger question is what the paddles do for in game play. That may determine if I hunt for one with built in paddles vs. not.

https://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Sai...440800&sr=8-1-fkmr1&keywords=site+flight+yoke

I'd need to use the spare pedals I have laying around for yaw on this particular model as well. IF I went that route.



You could even nerd out like this

https://www.amazon.com/Wheel-Stand-...40928&sr=8-1-spons&keywords=flight+yoke&psc=1

After some hunting, it looks like the paddles are used to Strafe, so you would indeed want properly placed paddles or buttons in the expected positions (or close by)

"Strafe: Push the yellow paddles that are behind the steering wheel. These are digital inputs, so you can't press them partway"
https://yoshifan28.blogspot.com/2017/04/f-zero-ax-mechanics-differences-from-gx.html

Likewise looks like those are NOT yaw paddles (like you'd need for Airline Pilot), they are just standard brake and gas.

As for F-Zero you will need 4 pots.
1 for Gas, 1 for Brake, 1 for Steering, and 1 for your Pitch to help you air steer. This will raise and lower your ship when it is in mid air.

If you dont have the pot for air steering your ship will go flying off the screen or off the course.

 

[Finisterre]

Indeed, this is exactly why I mentioned the setup above. You can see it has two pots in the yoke, one for yaw (steering), and one for pitch (push in on the stick, or pull out). The pedals likewise have their own pots. I'll check in if I ever wind up testing this kit out.

Re: flying off the course, lol gotta watch that Z-axis input!

 

[jassin000]

Oh man, Slopes Game Room just did a full history on F-Zero series... Makes me want that AX rig real bad!

 

[Finisterre]

Does this help? I'm sure you already have a set of pedals laying around. This could be all you need to crack this rig open. =]
https://www.ebay.com/itm/LOGITECH-G...Z44-Gamecontroller-Flightstick-2/263674025963