Adding RGB input to an old CRT TV

[twistedsymphony]

This is completely irrelevant outside of North American because of prevalence of SCART in PAL regions and the JP-21 connector in Japan but north america never got RGB capable TVs (save for a few rare and obscure models).

I've often wondered if they could be hacked to add in support for RGB and after much searching I came across this: https://web.archive.org/web/2011121...ding-an-rgb-input-to-a-cheap-generic-ntsc-tv/

that's not even the real article, it's an archive.org snapshot because the original has mysteriously disappeared. but it covers the challenges and process of converting at least one cheap chinese model TV.

I was wondering if anyone else had experience with this? or knows of a resource where I might find diagrams for CRT models so that we could identify CRTs where this might be possible (they use to have TV repair shops, surely there are schematics SOMEWHERE right?)

 

[Derick2k]

This is what you want and what I am currently trying to do,

I am picking up a 32" Sony and a JVC this weekend, one free the other $25. As nice as the PVM & BVM are, I will forgo those and just do the following mods to regular TVs.

Check these links:

http://scarthunter.blogspot.com/2015/01/RGBmodification.html

http://mikejmoffitt.com/wp/?p=284

 

[twistedsymphony]

thanks for the link. it seems as though both of those people used the 133MHz link I posted as their original source of information.

According to 133MHz some TVs use Native Y Pb Pr internally and thus have no way to tap in RGB. Similarly all-digital displays (like the Sony Trinitron line) may not have RGB available internally either.


More specifically based on what I've read the key seems to be the availability of the "TDA8361 Jungle IC" without that this particular method doesn't work. It couldn't hurt for us to compile a list of TVs that use it.

It seems as though at least certain models of Sanyo, Philips, JVC, and Emerson use it.

 

[Niko]

I've RGB modded a 27" Toshiba 27A41. Was a waste of time really.

The picture had weird streaking with certian colors towards the right of the tube like the tube had been worn out. Also the geometry was quite a bit off and even adjusting it via the now invisible menu ( doing the mod causes the OSD menu to fuck up. ) still wont get it perfect. Taping into the RGB pins on the IC seems to bypass all the filtering and other processing the TV does to make the image the best it can be.

At the end of the day, I was much happier with component input and I went right back to that.

If you absolutely must have RGB input, get one of those universal arcade chassis and find a compatible TV Tube. That or just use an arcade monitor, however TV tubes > most arcade tubes.

 

[twistedsymphony]

I've RGB modded a 27" Toshiba 27A41. Was a waste of time really.

The picture had weird streaking with certian colors towards the right of the tube like the tube had been worn out. Also the geometry was quite a bit off and even adjusting it via the now invisible menu ( doing the mod causes the OSD menu to fuck up. ) still wont get it perfect. Taping into the RGB pins on the IC seems to bypass all the filtering and other processing the TV does to make the image the best it can be.

At the end of the day, I was much happier with component input and I went right back to that.

If you absolutely must have RGB input, get one of those universal arcade chassis and find a compatible TV Tube. That or just use an arcade monitor, however TV tubes > most arcade tubes.

I own many arcade monitors and native RGB monitors (Sony PVMs).. my interest in this is purely to find a cheap suitable alternative. Year after year arcade monitors are getting harder to find and PVM prices are going up and up. a cheap alternative might help deflate prices or at least provide alternatives in the inevitable future where good monitors are more valuable than the original game PCBs.

 

[Derick2k]

I am trying to get ahold of this guy in Nevada to see if he shares some info, his site is down, but I found the archived one:

retrogamind-mods.com

Compiling a list of compatible tvs, schematic, service manuals would be awesome.

 

[twistedsymphony]

I am trying to get ahold of this guy in Nevada to see if he shares some info, his site is down, but I found the archived one:

retrogamind-mods.com

Compiling a list of compatible tvs, schematic, service manuals would be awesome.

nice find... That's really exciting that he specified the Trinitron line as being suitable for this, they have beautiful tubes and they're pretty easy to find in large sizes. Also Wikipedia of all places has a complete model/feature chart for the Trinitron series: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FD_Trinitron/WEGA

Semi-off topic but I've been looking to find a 32" or larger 4:3 CRT with VGA 480P input for Dreamcast use. I'd be curious if the DVI equipped Trinitrons are DVI-I or strictly DVI-D

 

[deibit]

Did you try with European manufactures? Like Philips or Bang and Olufsen? I don't think they produced a completely different monitor for the US...

I have a B&O MX7000 and is one of the most amazing TVs you can use for retrogaming... I also have a Sony BVM20F1 which is also excellent but 20 inches is a bit on the small side...

 

[Derick2k]

Check out the attached PDF schematic I found for a Sony FD Trinitron, has the RBG input/outputs on the Jungle IC. It looks promising.

 

[twistedsymphony]

Did you try with European manufactures? Like Philips or Bang and Olufsen? I don't think they produced a completely different monitor for the US...

I have a B&O MX7000 and is one of the most amazing TVs you can use for retrogaming... I also have a Sony BVM20F1 which is also excellent but 20 inches is a bit on the small side...

I don't think I've ever seen a B&O piece of equipment for sale in the USA anywhere at any time. And not for lack of looking, I've been a fan of their designs ever since I saw that hand motion controlled CD player of theirs back in the day. I know you can order their stuff online for thousands more than comparable equipment. If I had to guess they are sold here but only in specialty boutique stores catering to people who are made of money.

Philips is honestly not all that common either, probably just due to the higher cost of their stuff but I do still see it around from time to time. Heck even the Sony Trinitrons are mostly Made in Mexico and imported to the US from there.

a quick Craigslist search and this is what's available for CRTs within 2 hours drive of me:
24" Insignia
27" Philips
25" Sanyo
26" Sanyo
26" Sanyo
27" Sharp
30" Sony Trinitron
32" Sony Trinitron
36" Sony Trinitron
27" Toshiba


Looking at that Philips it's free but it says assembled in Mexico on the back: http://boston.craigslist.org/nos/zip/5425960852.html

 

[Derick2k]

I trying to find out the exact methods these guys used to get this working. The sony's look like you could easily implement this.

 

[Niko]

Incase anyone is interested. This is all i had to do on that 27A41.

 

[Niko]

Also, This is a good read:

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=56155

Voultar outlines everything nicely.

 

[Derick2k]

Thanks Niko, I dont see the EXT RGB pins on the Sonys, was thinking of cutting the pins/traces and tying in the rgb signal
.

 

[Derick2k]

I wonder what TVs use that IC, would make thing so much easier.

 

[Derick2k]

Niko, found this on a sony, might be usable like in your example?!

 

[Voultar]

Niko, found this on a sony, might be usable like in your example?!

I joined this forum just to help with this post.

I've outlined the procedure for most sets in this thread:

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=56155

As a matter of fact, I outlined the procedure for that exact Jungle I/C.

In my post, I drew a diagram with 10uF termination caps, don't use those. use .1uF caps for DC-Offset & Black-Level Restoration.

 

[Derick2k]

Welcome to the forum, your knowledge is extremely welcomed.

I will read your thread entirely. I am trying to source some sony trinitrons right now that use those jungle i/c.

 

[Voultar]

Welcome to the forum, your knowledge is extremely welcomed.

I will read your thread entirely. I am trying to source some sony trinitrons right now that use those jungle i/c.

Regardless of the TV make/brand. We can look in the service manual and see what needs to be done. It doesn't have to be a set that uses that specific Jungle I/C.

 

[Derick2k]

Awesome, would Tvs with component inputs also work?

I am picking up a KV27S66 tomorrow and a KV-35S42 on Sat. One is free and the other $15.

What parts do you recommend we get? Switches/Caps/Resistors, etc...