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Psyko-M1

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So last night I got my modded Saturn cook'n.
After playing through the stack of delicious Japanese Shmups, I had an idea about wiring the Saturn to JAMMA.
I don't see why it couldn't be done, so I got to reading.

http://www.ukresistance.co.uk/saturn/brian.htm
This seems like it's completely doable.

https://www.resetera.com/threads/ad...re-sega-saturn-to-jamma-conversion-kit.41063/
This site has some info on some exotic hardware that actually existed.

My question to you folks is, have any of you done this before?
I know it's been done with other systems in the past, but the Saturn seems to be wired at home in an arcade cab.
Thoughts anybody???
 
The Jamma-Con system that was available up until recently was perfect for this. Unfortunately, The Last Bandit isn’t making them anymore and I pussyfooted around getting one and ultimately missed out.

http://retrotechr.blogspot.com/2015/11/jammacon.html?m=1

I’m patiently waiting for Tim Worthington to release the next iteration of his SCART2JAMMA board before I attempt to wire up anymore consoles to my cab.

Would be keen to see any solution you come up with though as the Saturn and PlayStation are the two consoles worthy of being hooked up to CRT cabs. Saturn for the Shmups and PS for the Light Gun games. I’d say Dreamcast too, but I think a Naomi system is more in order on that front.
 
The Jamma-Con system that was available up until recently was perfect for this. Unfortunately, The Last Bandit isn’t making them anymore and I pussyfooted around getting one and ultimately missed out.

http://retrotechr.blogspot.com/2015/11/jammacon.html?m=1

I’m patiently waiting for Tim Worthington to release the next iteration of his SCART2JAMMA board before I attempt to wire up anymore consoles to my cab.

Would be keen to see any solution you come up with though as the Saturn and PlayStation are the two consoles worthy of being hooked up to CRT cabs. Saturn for the Shmups and PS for the Light Gun games. I’d say Dreamcast too, but I think a Naomi system is more in order on that front.
This is brilliant!!!!
And I'm also sad because it's exactly what I'm looking for.
If anything I'm also considering converting Saturn to USB input for fight sticks.
While I'm digging around in there, I'll try to see if I can build some form of harness for this.
At least I got technical drawings.
All my google-fu couldn't find these sites, so THANKS for this!
 
The Jamma-Con system that was available up until recently was perfect for this. Unfortunately, The Last Bandit isn’t making them anymore and I pussyfooted around getting one and ultimately missed out.

http://retrotechr.blogspot.com/2015/11/jammacon.html?m=1

I’m patiently waiting for Tim Worthington to release the next iteration of his SCART2JAMMA board before I attempt to wire up anymore consoles to my cab.

Would be keen to see any solution you come up with though as the Saturn and PlayStation are the two consoles worthy of being hooked up to CRT cabs. Saturn for the Shmups and PS for the Light Gun games. I’d say Dreamcast too, but I think a Naomi system is more in order on that front.
I didn't like the need for an extra board for each system with the Jamma-Con.

Would be nice to look into the SCART2JAMMA. Does he just release the info on his site? Any expected ETA?
 
I liked the modular system for the Jamma Con. Made it potentially less messier than a huge board with a bunch of input ports.

Personally, I would never want to play Mega Drive, Master System, PC Engine, NES or SNES on a cab. Saturn and PS1/2 seem reasonable given the plethora of fighting, shmup and light gun games available.

The later revisions of Jammacon actually were functional in a similar way to the Scart2Jamma — you could just plug in an RGB input and use header pins on the pcb and padhacks to get stuff working (such as the 360). If anyone out there has the board for sale, please message me.

Tim Worthington (I believe) has been working on the new device for a long while. I believe it was meant to be announced earlier in the year, but patience will reap good benefits I bet, as his work is simply amazing :)
 
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Seen my thread on this subject yet?

Basically, I use a Saturn SCART cable then plug that into a Sync Strike to make havesting the signals I need easy (RGB, Sync, VGnd, 5volts, Left/Right Audio). Also, the Sync Strike has the LM1881 IC built in which saves me the trouble of building the circuit. Also, is very clean and PCB feet mountable. Then,
  • For RGB video signals, I need to amp, clamp, and DC restore the AC coupled RGB signal for JAMMA arcade monitor hookup. For that, I use one of the TI THS Series RGB amps.
  • For the audio,
    • I need to run that into a stereo amp if I have a stereo cab.
    • Or I can set the Saturn for mono output and run the corresponding audio signal to a mono amp.
    • Or I can mux the stereo signal down to mono, then run that into a mono amp
    • Best to have an amp that is 12volts for volume. So you'll need to harvest the AC voltage from your cab somewhere and use a DC adapter to get it down to 12volts. Or tap 12volts from the harness.
  • I use the MC Cthulu for controller interface
  • Lastly, I wire all the leads into a PB.JAMMA fingerboard so that it is fully JAMMA compatible
Boom, done. Also, what I have works with just about any console that works with the MC Cthulu. I just need the corresponding SCART cable and RJ45 controller cable for said console.

I am waiting for SCART2JAMMA3 as well as it can do component transcoding which I need for the NTSC Wii. But I am happy with my DIY solution for now.
 
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Seen my thread on this subject yet?

Basically, I use a Saturn SCART cable then plug that into a Sync Strike to make havesting the signals I need easy (RGB, Sync, VGnd, 5volts, Left/Right Audio). Also, the Sync Strike has the LM1881 IC built in which saves me the trouble of building the circuit. Also, is very clean and PCB feet mountable. Then,
  • For RGB video signals, I need to amp, clamp, and DC restore the AC coupled RGB signal for JAMMA arcade monitor hookup. For that, I use one of the TI THS Series RGB amps.
  • For the audio,
    • I need to run that into a stereo amp if I have a stereo cab.
    • Or I can set the Saturn for mono output and run the corresponding audio signal to a mono amp.
    • Or I can mux the stereo signal down to mono, then run that into a mono amp
    • Best to have an amp that is 12volts for volume. So you'll need to harvest the AC voltage from your cab somewhere and use a DC adapter to get it down to 12volts. Or tap 12volts from the harness.
  • I use the MC Cthulu for controller interface
  • Lastly, I wire all the leads into a PB.JAMMA fingerboard so that it is fully JAMMA compatible
Boom, done. Also, what I have works with just about any console that works with the MC Cthulu. I just need the corresponding SCART cable and RJ45 controller cable for said console.

I am waiting for SCART2JAMMA3 as well as it can do component transcoding which I need for the NTSC Wii. But I am happy with my DIY solution for now.
e81b4245699ce89547858726e65597a0--bait-savior.jpg


Segata-san approves of this solution.
This is what I've been reading as well.
My problem is that most parts I'm looking for are one-offs, out of stock, or just are not made any longer.
I was looking at the Brook retro boards for conversion as well because the Cthulhu is nowhere to be seen.
Mono will be fine for serviceable audio out to the cabinet.
Despite me having an MVS cab with stereo, I'm not going to attempt to wire it to use stereo, UNLESS YOU GUYS KNOW OF A METHOD I'd be super open to learning.
The simplicity of this looks pretty nice as well.
http://www.evolvingconsole.com/category/jamma/ (Yeah I know it's for Dreamcast, but it's a similar layout)
There's a nice sync diagram at the bottom of the page for Saturn. It's not a complete schematic.

As for Stereo, I'm building in a separate speaker input that runs off of a Raspberry pi.
It allows AUX, and the cabinet to tie into my Sonos system wirelessly.
https://en.community.sonos.com/musi...4/add-aux-to-sonos-using-raspberry-pi-6793268
I mean, why not?
 
Just don't forget the RGB amp. The other page in your OP you posted didn't even touch that part. There is a different between JAMMA RGB and Console RGB. Just because both are 15khz does not mean they are the same. You'll be miserable if you do not change the AC-coupled console RGB video to DC-coupled, clamp it, and amp it. Especially if you have a Japanese arcade monitor that won't ever produce a stable picture if you feed it AC coupled RGB. Lots of US arcade monitor can accept an AC-coupled signal, but the voltage for console RGB is .7vpp whereas JAMMA levels are 2-5vpp (volts peak-to-peak). That means you'll have to dial your monitor settings way up just to see an image, if at all.

There are cheap mono amps on eBay for less than $5 that you can use. The trick is to power them. Maybe you can get away with a 5volt mono amp. That makes tapping 5volts off the SCART rail easy. Let me know how that goes if you do.

Yeah, at first I thought I wasted my money picking up the Sync Strike. But it makes it so I can switch out consoles easily.

Paradise Arcade Shop has the MC Cthulu from time to time. Get seems the Brook Retro is nicer.
 
Just don't forget the RGB amp. The other page in your OP you posted didn't even touch that part. There is a different between JAMMA RGB and Console RGB. Just because both are 15khz does not mean they are the same. You'll be miserable if you do not change the AC-coupled console RGB video to DC-coupled, clamp it, and amp it. Especially if you have a Japanese arcade monitor that won't ever produce a stable picture if you feed it AC coupled RGB. Lots of US arcade monitor can accept an AC-coupled signal, but the voltage for console RGB is .7vpp whereas JAMMA levels are 2-5vpp (volts peak-to-peak). That means you'll have to dial your monitor settings way up just to see an image, if at all.

There are cheap mono amps on eBay for less than $5 that you can use. The trick is to power them. Maybe you can get away with a 5volt mono amp. That makes tapping 5volts off the SCART rail easy. Let me know how that goes if you do.

Yeah, at first I thought I wasted my money picking up the Sync Strike. But it makes it so I can switch out consoles easily.

Paradise Arcade Shop has the MC Cthulu from time to time. Get seems the Brook Retro is nicer.
Sync strike is essential.
I got one on it's way to me.
Now to figure out these controls.
With at least the Brook controller, I won't be butchering old controllers to solder on pads.
From there I can just build everything into a project interface box for Jamma and call it a day.
If I can somehow fit it, I might even build a multi-box that will accept other console inputs and consoles if I can somehow standardize it.
Thank you for the notes.
Everything you provided is mighty useful for this little Christmas project.
 
Is that a Wells Gardner K7400?
Yes... it is.
I'm posting pictures here of my build.
You can see what I'm doing for testing.
I can see why you need the amp.
It looks like it needs a boost on gamma or pedistal.
I had to tweak the monitor to at minimum see if I was getting RGB.

Pictures to my album. You can see the recent screwing around I did there in detail.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/V2S3tBfTHerKHa3V9

Thanks for the help @acblunden2
Now to figure out what I'm doing with the controls.
The MC Cuthulu is hard to get a hold of for it's price.
They're almost always sold out.

I do have a busted Saturn controller I gutted which I'm gonna harvest it's internals.
I'm gonna buy one of the Brook/JansensCustom Retro boards and see how those work.
My only concern is that I can't seem to find ANY documentation on the RJ45 to control output.
I see they offer cables for alternative consoles, but I can't seem to find out how to make your own cables.
I have to keep stretching my GoogleFu and see how deep I can go to find what I need, unless you know of anything.
 
You're the man. Thanks for pointing these out. For the life of me I couldn't find them for the past 2 days.
So here's the question, I see these are good for the Ps360+ and the Cthulu... (never mind, answered my own question. Just needed to be pointed in the right direction) :D
 
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@acblunden2
I built your amp but still have a dark picture.
Can you please double check my work?
Your pictures and your description in your post doesn't seem to add up.
Current picture looks like last time I directly wired to the SyncStrike.
Amp apparently is working because I disconnected it from the scart solder edge, and directly fed it 5V.
Picture is still "dark" and I have to crank the monitor's gamma to see a sub-par serviceable picture.
There's just not enough brightness or chroma.

EDIT: Would this have anything to do with my MVS-wired cabinet?
The monitor is a wells gardner K7000 series 19"
Thanks!

4dEflg-hTIPzbrc_c6klbfoB6tCia6RtoKEmm2NudvQLnqUnbv81cs06jYe4TPnGfs_LnNGpZMxpFvBCgWSkgWB6TXWFpssKyTtmMgz27IBvYA0pXp3wWLBfD1MB4wFb2PQLxfBFyQi61mYAusqEAZMRhxgSVGbofjj_oYW2Y-ycuDAkJQoTR9pFzRNA8W_ZiSER0_N3GL4NEjP5qBcYs5FrXNNqZhuhi9QDM77SSRrAhluI0Mt4iGbbBg7P31CLCJOzY2uPd73pEM23ItOuwR8ybyDFQc2U1-KY1K72sWpgsNnCWWolnBppne1Xq7SRFV8KLL1UotxRPuTB5FfRYciklTe9s9r6xs1T8Tb3KT2IZ6EUj4Fu87Gv8mTUIkgyqR5jjg0SXKzT5SRXOb-hmbenY6-Yy-ALrhloip71hBNYOmQgfx27dP_ESK1ugFiC38SOngsSVVGBLcVhfbtQ4QObsG42Dw_lI8CGXdDvMaCRul9hUy29M1raKd4faIFxgPuE65YE9eol6J_jDhWhCb3k4ARFp8Uku4MYusoM1yObuD8Aiz4Rl_m_kcusY5EFs4R5RortZjjz46gjwv83SC5wuVOn6IL2LA8EYy5eK9jRiud71G-eHo_NcwbuK1TesIp-ENsSuHLJmyivls0H-5wk5A=w1442-h1923-no


First off I still got everything on the list for testing.
75 ohm resistors
7316 amp
SOP8 PCB (DID I GET THE RIGHT ONES?
.1 Capactors

9xPXgt6bFGF05LH6cjQknfKQMEA1LQR9SqzLEiqJ4-1FYQlVdUjHBApnTLwY4edcueSN7OiLqB6aFkIXIjWDBNxoYJwg0xyzYPOoKB3ibTT6a40WZMG2y2GNe0JikhkLyss54UvChi65uINIOD36f29jJ8KPA-xtUmQ4i-u2hgKBd6TmTxW4cYtNhU_mQJxvGg03PIQbswX99Bl0NyOGpVJGOwB2VyYhcevEBYlq5wCnij9yyQXwcCi_Gs7JevoRwwJF_90pGowAl0p7PoPZ1Axf__IGK9ZR1J0DSRemho7JoFKbSkGZ0FdVQa64R6VTd0PwiLa3OANd_g7wOwueM3sCYv1wve03P4a_Q54mT_zPBEfOss7zX8VVYjfoUg6iT3Vj7nycr6EMk1QUwtHWHI0fkIGi5ahPefg51-g80kJwK-6G0NtYzaZdP5NvncNIICZJC1atPrMZrFdBL1mdM2fIcA1smf90TnMLrEFpBJjJ21xNwS0QM5X1baAWZnjScQ0VBfVX9Oh9e4u4K2D1SE7avivc3rksPAjH6e9jo-laCWcMc0ja57ZNqT1v90pk9tn57TXEhcts7X1kxTLMBsneEoDaeXf8xyAyDzgIFDicCrHFDet0FnxFyxQnnu-yahWYoHvXAfMa3e59SyiDCLbRyw=w1920-h1441-no


Your amp has resistors BEFORE the chip tied into the chip's ground on the way out to the Sync Strike solder edge for ground.
As it stands the ground from... Chip - Resistors - Sync Strike solder edge.

Here's a crude-ass drawing of how it's wired currently...

DIDIDOITRIGHT_SCARTJAMMA.png

Should I separate the grounds from the resistors to the Jamma edge ground? VGround?
Perhaps that's where I screwed up are my grounds???????

I also didn't include the .1 cap across the power on the chip.

tLM_tY7WWaMoHABMrDnDDNm-P6RzjMgCu7r_rYKMp_bZtTWk0ULYYS50uNcKDd_b6z6Ol9zyYVCBVYUoNPhgIHVFkz_F7wkQIn4OF6cy4ow3M2O8cy_EqBcBN_HdW7INVPuOwkjjzn8U7jEqFy0py3LlgfaX5TZYuy-eQiNbCLdpKJ_1UTPyboPfQ0ScTbJcA4zipkdQaW3nc6ynhdUiqneinX1EzwZccSflvOtCf5wGhRsMicsE4W6x49c1SG5s-rmaGoWEqcXasVJGnQOw26PU8_ZzpkUmXXLMYXXAzPy8t5_NvqFsaqBQwAKTzZf7wdT1QLuSvar7zR_3MVKZDk2LMgbj-jZLWN4ylJ2eTBJUQwAOO_1ZO6d9vhsiqdlBdqQ61AwDnjwlj4B8fST3r4cUM3BDjmmu8T6DE2a6uAfjoXedIh26rpTtu2UAN1n1YdiAFca6vj92PKAiwU6BxMPYC8cbPIIyo0rz3ZZuT8G7qWFNWU-Gj9gOcsgjDj7FwKzIK0OJrqGWkJuYac1_kdg6RXxEcHYoKvT4HQTy49YhSLG6aumBM9znKmHX5_DmfcU2XcEAedK4edpcnfjWoxOmocp2-UmLiU9ieBuBAnIXpuvnQ_7rcpODBDRKqe1RZsl1xtc3JBLvuo_MH2Fc_Tu19w=w1920-h1441-no

I have enough to make ONE MORE because I figured I'd screw up, so I bought extra parts.
Let me know if I did this right.
Also, your thoughts on the hot glue solution? LOL I was thinking of something for long term.

0p_Szzpe4d77DiWXwpq-yxzKomSjZ8LKJqjDdb_COSgOu3kfUmf1j2-tROV__Fl5U-4V1cH21ZbBFqlpXF9giUeQIRzQh5xBal0qk9VxsJrdaXjFOQvV7kj4ILDv0if8H2qb5UokgtecnbRzf8SQarMFmLnNvN6ymZIN7e9RzB8iJh7QWxlB3bppbjbpR0mkW6R-du1t4jh2wzyWTpNbNWYojSav3ub9YEDS0q3RAPRpL3syBDm76ccn_x2GXVzfPO2jrlhOhvA0EiwPjRY_VxffO2KxYrhIuBSixilRvLeIdM0Qodf4S69T1MPy93TtVbPd8aum6DqpUf6OGniWBig6exI0kzT3sehWzuCqWYZNn3pU1SJjt-lMaaThcUyHxS3fnIIQk1ZddrbBON-vg_e68MOgGLMDLvBxv2Ua1pMjUfnatuqF5nUnKfyH_xZqWZ7zd_9M6d7q7a8jr4cK4c6Q-UcQ09tF9fkzm4kbsWteq29RcrdvGfkPYLwJpNCuWDNozpQO1beVFGMpz4ByuksW5bPL2AHV4AyFjgi-rz5dBKKVU_bUF8Wb9MgGCSyY01mccgeKSTQnIkTBfJrQJia19M2cC4iE8MmTTcr03OCTFMtNqfngluJHpVvxT-XjCsPSlCrSFEYaa3g0FKYVPEkfBw=w1442-h1923-no

Thanks for any help you can provide.
 
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I don't see any pics in your post. But the diagram you drew up looks right. Did you check with a meter to see if you made any solder bridges? Also, did you check the PCB if you have correct continuity before you soldered it together? You should put a meter on each of the chip's legs and confirm it is not bridged to any of the other solder vias.

My guess it is either a grounding issue or 5vdc power issue if everything else is in order.
 
I don't see any pics in your post. But the diagram you drew up looks right. Did you check with a meter to see if you made any solder bridges? Also, did you check the PCB if you have correct continuity before you soldered it together? You should put a meter on each of the chip's legs and confirm it is not bridged to any of the other solder vias.

My guess it is either a grounding issue or 5vdc power issue if everything else is in order.
Thank you @acblunden2 for checking my work.
Perhaps I somehow missed something.

CCJamma.jpg


There we go....
I copied and pasted from google images, so they don't come across *noted*

I tested with continuity, everything reported ok.
I'll hit it again tonight and try a third and last time.
I was more curious what you ran the resistor ground to.
Did you connect it in-line between the Amp's ground, and your SyncStrike's Scart ground?
Or did you wire that resistor group ground to something else?
That's the only thing I can think of that would potentially cause things to malfunction.

I appreciate you buddy! Big big big big big super big thanks!
 

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So this worked @acblunden2
Grounding was all over the place with your configuration with my cabinet. (ref: MVS-2-19 NeoGeo)
I was getting a lot of noise from all sorts of grounds I used that picked off the resistors on the RGB input lines.
When you mentioned Bob's design was more for PVMs and such, it got me thinking as you had a 31khz tri-scan monitor in your pics.
I wired up 3 amps in your config all sorts of ways and didn't have any success what so ever.


RGBSaturnToJamma.jpg
circuit2.jpg
I went back to Bob's design, re-added the capacitor, and found that grounding the negative on the capacitor to jamma edge cleaned up everything.

GREAT SAGATA-SAN's GHOST!!!! IT WORKS!!!!!!!!!!
Segata-san.jpg


The resistors went back to the output positions per original spec.
Shmups are buttery smooth.
I hope this configuration finds you well for future troubleshooting.

battlegregga.jpg
 

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Cool. Dunno why my instructions didn't work for you (EDIT: Also, that is a Nanao MS8 dual res monitor set at 15khz in my pics). But now that you got the video portion covered, next up is the audio portion. The Sync Strike makes that easier as you can just harvest that signal using RCA wires. Run that into an amp, then downmux it to mono. Feed that amped mono signal back into the fingerboard. You can also rewire your cab for stereo.

But as far as all that hot glue goes, good solder joints do not need hot glue.
 
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hey dude...i dont know if the rj45 saturn cable works with the ps360+...i tried it a while back and it didnt work for me...just a headsup, it was a while back so maybe things have changed since then...but when i plugged it in on my setup it didnt work
Sup man. PS360+ needs a firmware update to work with the Saturn. Won't affect this project though, this guy is going to get MC Cthulhu's or the Brook Retro board.
 
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