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Operation Thunderbolt recoil questions

Z

Zebra

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I am trying to restore an old operation Thunderbolt gun to use with mame for directional gun games. I am connecting the pots and buttons to an Apac but I am not sure how to connect the recoil solenoid.

First, does anyone here know what size PSU the solenoid on this gun uses?

Second, does anyone know how they achieved full auto recoil on the original Operation Thunderbolt cab? I can't see any 555 timers inside the gun. I am fairly sure that if I just connect a power supply to the solenoid, it would activate one per trigger press instead of auto cycling.

If full auto recoil is achieved with an autofire circuit attached to the trigger relay, that would be easy to replicate with an arcade guns recoil dongle. If not, I am a little stuck...
 
doozer said:
Looks like it uses a 555 timer.

Operation Thunderbolt Schematic

See page 16.
Click to expand...
Thanks. That helps.

I have a 555 timer chip. I guess I should try and figure out how to use it. Or see if I can track down the original recoil board.

The solenoid in the gun seems to have some kind of resistor soldered between the two power wires. I can't get my head around how it worked as connecting the + and - wires usually just produces sparks, smoke and a bad smell... I also can't see how the solenoid connected to the trigger switch.
 
Who am I kidding. I don't understand any of that schematic document. It just looks like a bunch of boxes with meaningless numbers written on it to me.

My 555 timer has sat in box for six months because I don't understand any of the diagrams which apparently explain it.
 
You shouldn't need a 555 timer for that.

While the game PCB might use a 555 timer to create the pulse, this SHOULD be emulated within MAME (assuming outputs are even hooked up).

The manual for this game is frigging useless, it has no wiring information to speak of and the PSU for the coils simply lists a part number with no information about it. best info I could find was from this thread on KLOV where someone measured the voltage around 13.5V: https://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?t=269468&page=2

Generally coils can run on a wide range of voltages. Pinball flippers for example will use 50V for the initial movement then drop down to 18V to hold the flipper in position. Most gun coils I've seen in other games run at 24V.

I would recommend looking for a model number or spec on the coil itself and see if you can find a voltage range or recommended voltage. Or just hook it up to a variable supply starting around 12V and go up or down depending on the strength you're looking for. It's entirely possible that the machine used an adjustable 24V supply and generally has it tuned lower for a less aggressive knock.
 
twistedsymphony said:
You shouldn't need a 555 timer for that.

While the game PCB might use a 555 timer to create the pulse, this SHOULD be emulated within MAME (assuming outputs are even hooked up).

The manual for this game is frigging useless, it has no wiring information to speak of and the PSU for the coils simply lists a part number with no information about it. best info I could find was from this thread on KLOV where someone measured the voltage around 13.5V: https://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?t=269468&page=2

Generally coils can run on a wide range of voltages. Pinball flippers for example will use 50V for the initial movement then drop down to 18V to hold the flipper in position. Most gun coils I've seen in other games run at 24V.

I would recommend looking for a model number or spec on the coil itself and see if you can find a voltage range or recommended voltage. Or just hook it up to a variable supply starting around 12V and go up or down depending on the strength you're looking for. It's entirely possible that the machine used an adjustable 24V supply and generally has it tuned lower for a less aggressive knock.
Click to expand...

I found the aux recoil power supply on ebay and it was 28v. As the voltage on solenoids is nominal, I plan to use a 24v dovetail PSU I have spare. It worked well enough when I tested it (after cutting the diode that ran between the + and - wires.

I have decided to try a different route on the recoil. I ordered one of the Ultimarc recoil kits and an aim force dongle to get full auto. I should be able to replace the taito gun trigger switch with the Ultimarc recoil switch board and connect that to the original solenoid.

I was just testing the gun with mame and I have to say, playing Operation Thunderbolt with the real arcade gun is so much more fun than using an Aimtrak. I can't wait to get the full auto recoil set up.
 
This sounds awesome - I have been using Operation Thunderbolt guns with my S-JIHP setup for some time and have always wondered about adding recoil to them as the ultimate goal. I am not familiar with recoil in any way - any chance for a tutorial when it is done so we can attempt to duplicate it? It is really exciting to see an option for recoil on these guns that can be used for all applications (Naomi, Chihiro, or even MAME if needed).
Thank you!
 
Getting semi auto recoil is relatively easy. You just use the 5v from the trigger switch to activate the 24v line to the solenoid with a simple relay circuit ($7 on eBay).

It's getting full auto recoil that is hard for people like me (with little to no understanding of electronics).

The aimforce dongle can probably only be used with a PC because it is a USB connection and it relies on software to set up the right type of recoil for each game. I think it is a glorified autofire add-on.

To get full auto recoil on other systems in scenarios where it isn't available natively, you either need a 555 timer circuit (or equivalent), or to use a motor (instead of a solenoid) like how they do it on Operation Wolf.
 
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