NGDEV - What are they thinking?

[LazerFlux]

I can probably answer a tad bit of this, I built up a bit of a friendship with Rene over the years who is part of the two brothers who run NGDev (Rene also runs Hucast). It’s literally the two of them with another guy helping here and there. The costs to produce the items/components is extremely high and they do it in their spare time. It’s not a big company with people sitting on stockpiles of carts. While I get the gripe, the truth of the matter is that they are basically doing everything on a shoestring when they can.

In regards to the “their games are mediocre at best”, I think Gunlord is pretty great, with Fast Striker being a decent score based shmup. Everything else is just middle of the road.

Def platform “collectible”/curious rarities if you go the MVS route but as most said before, they can be played cheaper and the hassle you might go through to own the real carts might not be worth the long wait. I don’t get the impression that they are purposely being difficult, it’s more of a language barrier coupled with them not really being anything more than two dudes who work other jobs and aren’t sitting in a giant office with resources flowing 24/7.

Thank you very much for helping to explain this.

I 1000000% understand the doing it on the side as a hobby thing --- It's why I'm taking so long with that netboot project lmao.

I guess the point I'm trying to make here is, in this case since there is an actual product being sold for a good deal of money, there are definitely ways to meet somewhere in the middle.

Maybe it would make sense to just have preorders open for a longer period of time, more frequently, or stage them according to production run numbers.

They could also offer special ordering for a premium if the demand isn't high enough for production runs. That way, they could contract local businesses or individuals for the printing and packaging manufacturing instead of outsourcing it to China or some other place, as it could be done in much smaller batches. the premium could also cover the added price of ordering the flash memory/FPGAs/etc. at lower quantities. This way, there would be less unwanted time investment on their part.

Heck, I bet they could find someone local who's passionate about the hobby, business savvy and would be willing to manage this for them for a percentage of the net profit.

Language barriers can be a hassle, and I definitely understand that. Maybe this is something you could mention?

 

[ITATTRACTS]

I can probably answer a tad bit of this, I built up a bit of a friendship with Rene over the years who is part of the two brothers who run NGDev (Rene also runs Hucast). It’s literally the two of them with another guy helping here and there. The costs to produce the items/components is extremely high and they do it in their spare time. It’s not a big company with people sitting on stockpiles of carts. While I get the gripe, the truth of the matter is that they are basically doing everything on a shoestring when they can.

In regards to the “their games are mediocre at best”, I think Gunlord is pretty great, with Fast Striker being a decent score based shmup. Everything else is just middle of the road.

Def platform “collectible”/curious rarities if you go the MVS route but as most said before, they can be played cheaper and the hassle you might go through to own the real carts might not be worth the long wait. I don’t get the impression that they are purposely being difficult, it’s more of a language barrier coupled with them not really being anything more than two dudes who work other jobs and aren’t sitting in a giant office with resources flowing 24/7.

Thank you very much for helping to explain this.

I 1000000% understand the doing it on the side as a hobby thing --- It's why I'm taking so long with that netboot project lmao.

I guess the point I'm trying to make here is, in this case since there is an actual product being sold for a good deal of money, there are definitely ways to meet somewhere in the middle.

Maybe it would make sense to just have preorders open for a longer period of time, more frequently, or stage them according to production run numbers.

They could also offer special ordering for a premium if the demand isn't high enough for production runs. That way, they could contract local businesses or individuals for the printing and packaging manufacturing instead of outsourcing it to China or some other place, as it could be done in much smaller batches. the premium could also cover the added price of ordering the flash memory/FPGAs/etc. at lower quantities. This way, there would be less unwanted time investment on their part.

Heck, I bet they could find someone local who's passionate about the hobby, business savvy and would be willing to manage this for them for a percentage of the net profit.

Language barriers can be a hassle, and I definitely understand that. Maybe this is something you could mention?

Yeah, these are all things and arguments that have come up across dozens of forums over the years. I think honestly speaking, you are approaching it as "don't they WANT to sell more and do good/take it seriously?" when really, they are just doing what they want to do within their free time/energy. They know there are ways to do things more efficiently to make money, I just don't think the level of commitment is there to drive them. They clearly are doing fine cash wise outside of gaming projects so I don't think you're going to see some drastic effort push now this late into their existence. I also think, there is a kneejerk reaction to anything they've put out since Gunlord where you get the hardcore genre loyalists ripping them apart constantly (some in part due to their quality control, some because gamers are assholes) so I think a lot of the drive they may have once had has been tempered a bit. After the early releases/interest/positivity garnered for Gunlord, Fast Striker and Last Hope, the releases of Neo Xyx, Razion and Hucast's Ghost Blade (and Dux reissues) were met with resounding negativity. A lot of it was self inflicted because of bugs/shoddy production and delays. I think that it has just sort of turned from a thing two guys were excited about to "hey this is a lot of work and not really fun anymore". I know when Ghost Blade came out, Rene was super frustrated and bummed. They chip away when they can but again, I wouldn't expect any major shake ups to what they are doing.

 

[XtraSmiley]

Yeah, people have to remember doing this shit is WORK and sometimes, you'd rather do something else for work, especially when you make more money at it.

It sucks, but hey, it is what it is. Maybe they will get all their games into Xbox Game Pass or PSN or whatever down the road so at least we can check them out.

 

[LazerFlux]

Yeah, these are all things and arguments that have come up across dozens of forums over the years. I think honestly speaking, you are approaching it as "don't they WANT to sell more and do good/take it seriously?" when really, they are just doing what they want to do within their free time/energy. They know there are ways to do things more efficiently to make money, I just don't think the level of commitment is there to drive them. They clearly are doing fine cash wise outside of gaming projects so I don't think you're going to see some drastic effort push now this late into their existence. I also think, there is a kneejerk reaction to anything they've put out since Gunlord where you get the hardcore genre loyalists ripping them apart constantly (some in part due to their quality control, some because gamers are assholes) so I think a lot of the drive they may have once had has been tempered a bit. After the early releases/interest/positivity garnered for Gunlord, Fast Striker and Last Hope, the releases of Neo Xyx, Razion and Hucast's Ghost Blade (and Dux reissues) were met with resounding negativity. A lot of it was self inflicted because of bugs/shoddy production and delays. I think that it has just sort of turned from a thing two guys were excited about to "hey this is a lot of work and not really fun anymore". I know when Ghost Blade came out, Rene was super frustrated and bummed. They chip away when they can but again, I wouldn't expect any major shake ups to what they are doing.

Makes sense. Can't make someone do something they don't wanna do, and I definitely understand the burnout.
A lot of people in the hobby are straight up jerks who can't appreciate things for what they are.

Well, I'll keep an eye out for reprint runs and maybe if I'm able to try out all their games at some point and I really like them, and if I have enough capital maybe I'll reach out for licensing a run or two.

 

[ITATTRACTS]

Yeah, these are all things and arguments that have come up across dozens of forums over the years. I think honestly speaking, you are approaching it as "don't they WANT to sell more and do good/take it seriously?" when really, they are just doing what they want to do within their free time/energy. They know there are ways to do things more efficiently to make money, I just don't think the level of commitment is there to drive them. They clearly are doing fine cash wise outside of gaming projects so I don't think you're going to see some drastic effort push now this late into their existence. I also think, there is a kneejerk reaction to anything they've put out since Gunlord where you get the hardcore genre loyalists ripping them apart constantly (some in part due to their quality control, some because gamers are assholes) so I think a lot of the drive they may have once had has been tempered a bit. After the early releases/interest/positivity garnered for Gunlord, Fast Striker and Last Hope, the releases of Neo Xyx, Razion and Hucast's Ghost Blade (and Dux reissues) were met with resounding negativity. A lot of it was self inflicted because of bugs/shoddy production and delays. I think that it has just sort of turned from a thing two guys were excited about to "hey this is a lot of work and not really fun anymore". I know when Ghost Blade came out, Rene was super frustrated and bummed. They chip away when they can but again, I wouldn't expect any major shake ups to what they are doing.

Makes sense. Can't make someone do something they don't wanna do, and I definitely understand the burnout.A lot of people in the hobby are straight up jerks who can't appreciate things for what they are.

Well, I'll keep an eye out for reprint runs and maybe if I'm able to try out all their games at some point and I really like them, and if I have enough capital maybe I'll reach out for licensing a run or two.

I hear ya. Good luck with your quest! Definitely check out Gunlord and (if you like shmups) Fast Striker. I think they are examples of their early solid work. Neo Xyx had the great look of Toaplan's classic shooters but the speed makes it much more difficult than it should have been which is a shame because visually it's quite nice.

Stay safe and healthy man!

 

[Nic034]

Waiting for 3/5 years (after sending a PayPal) to have a game is really a joke ! (and there is a lot of dudes who are waiting for !) There is no way to do that, specially if you respect people who love neogeo.. if you don’t want to sell game, don’t take money !

I respect their hard work and I understand how can I could be difficult to produce this kind of stuff.

But if you control production and customer who buy them, watermark you roms, build copy-control embedded software and dedicated IC to do that on board, yeah this could take more time than selling a few game..

This is really frustrating for a lot of people who don’t want to buy game on shitty switch platform and wait for the AES/MVS copy..

 

[rewrite]

Yeah, I can't help but say that the timing between payment and receipt for a game's first print is TERRIBLE. I think it was 2.5 years between when I paid and it shipped?

I'm not sure what it's like for reprints.

 

[Nic034]

I have no idea why they wouldn't keep some stock on hand.

Cart shell, pcb runs, packaging, and printing costs. It all adds up and its for an audience much smaller than the official titles.

Cart shell and game shockbox for their prods are bought from a eu supplier who buy it from China/AliExpress dudes (i knew this from a verifed source), and they buy only 500x (or less) copy at once no more (when needed).. the supplier confirms that they don’t want to buy more and they always do their own way whatever everyone ask.

So, if they want to produce more games, it will be easy to buy more stuff to do it. For me (and that’s my personal point of view only) it’s a way to keep their neogeo game price for brand new game as high as possible, and avoid 2nd game hand on eBay and so be sure 2nd print always going on..

I’m speaking rude for sure, but this is a problem for many of their customers..

 

[ITATTRACTS]

I agree 100% with the payment/delayed item sentiment you guys are commenting on. The shit sucks. My comments were more to just give you guys some insight to what the lax mindset is on the other side. It’s definitely unfair to supporters to fork out good cash only to wait years with little to no communication.

 

[Derick2k]

I have a Kraut Buster 2nd print I will probably sell if anyone is interest. Virtually new, open to test play 1 time and thats about it.

 

[8bitforlife]

problem is they have preorders up for months and if your lucky enough to have money at the time you preorder but then it takes a year to years for them to produce them,

 

[xb74]

I just don't understand who their fans are, or why they want to pay top dollar for amateur trash.

It's Neo Geo, you know how this rolls.

It is disappointing how the NGDEV guys don't engage in forums anymore.

It would be a barren scene without people trying their hand at homebrew.

 

[DeWitt]

I have a Kraut Buster 2nd print I will probably sell if anyone is interest. Virtually new, open to test play 1 time and thats about it.

That sounds like it’s not that great of a game? I watched some gameplay videos of it and it looked good to me!? Since I’m a big Metal Slug fan I was thinking about buying one some day. Maybe there is an other run, I missed the first two runs. The current prices of used copies are to high I think. Would you recommend it or not?

 

[Neo-Alec]

I feel like those lodging complaints about NGDev and others who build their own carts often don't have the first clue about what it would take to design your own PCBs, have them printed and soldered, let alone source the cart shells and cases. I certainly have no idea myself, and would rather not even think about it.

That being said, the length of wait time for the AES version of Kraut Buster is still far beyond what can be reasonably expected for a customer pre-order.

I agree with others here -- I think their Neo Geo releases are in large part a hobby for NGDev. I don't know how you would do a large enough print run to keep them in stock for every person who hits the group up in a random email after the initial run. Let alone print copies on demand. Just try to imagine the logistics of that.

 

[rewrite]

I feel like those lodging complaints about NGDev and others who build their own carts often don't have the first clue about what it would take to design your own PCBs, have them printed and soldered, let alone source the cart shells and cases. I certainly have no idea myself, and would rather not even think about it.

In regards to the turn-around complaint, the issue doesn't lie here. It lies in taking money before the game was even made. It didn't take 2.5 years to produce carts, it took 2 years to complete the game after taking pre-orders, then another some odd months to order/produce carts.

If they finished the game and /then/ took money their turnaround would be quite reasonable.

 

[XtraSmiley]

I feel like those lodging complaints about NGDev and others who build their own carts often don't have the first clue about what it would take to design your own PCBs, have them printed and soldered, let alone source the cart shells and cases. I certainly have no idea myself, and would rather not even think about it.

In regards to the turn-around complaint, the issue doesn't lie here. It lies in taking money before the game was even made. It didn't take 2.5 years to produce carts, it took 2 years to complete the game after taking pre-orders, then another some odd months to order/produce carts.
If they finished the game and /then/ took money their turnaround would be quite reasonable.

I agree with you, but devils advocate, maybe they needed the funds to keep working on the game. Like how companies do Kickstarter now.

I'm not saying I agree or don't agree with them doing it that way, but what I AM saying, is now that the games are DONE... how about a pre-order window of like a week. If they get enough money to make it worth it, they move forward, if they don't refunds.

That's what I prefer!

 

[rewrite]

I agree with you, but devils advocate, maybe they needed the funds to keep working on the game. Like how companies do Kickstarter now.

Well we were just told that they're financially stable otherwise and that they do this as a hobby, so that's not the case here it seems.

At least when they do eventually make reprints they have several week long pre-order windows. Whether those windows are convenient for anyone or not is a whole different thing I suppose.

Would you recommend it or not?

The game looks nice. It's... well. Middle of the road at best.

 

[Niko]

They've stated on Facebook that they purposely limit their production runs to protect the interests of their investors.

Honestly I've never understood the hype for NGDev games. Its not like the games were developed, licensed, or published by SNK. Or anyone who even has history with the system.

People only want them because they cant have them.

 

[Derick2k]

I have a Kraut Buster 2nd print I will probably sell if anyone is interest. Virtually new, open to test play 1 time and thats about it.

That sounds like it’s not that great of a game? I watched some gameplay videos of it and it looked good to me!? Since I’m a big Metal Slug fan I was thinking about buying one some day. Maybe there is an other run, I missed the first two runs. The current prices of used copies are to high I think. Would you recommend it or not?

The game is fine and I like it, and I really should keep it since roms will probably never be released to play on multi carts, etc.. I just have way too much $$$ tied up in games and I need to cash out some stuff, need to pay for a new deck, trex is expensive

 

[rewrite]

They've stated on Facebook that they purposely limit their production runs to protect the interests of their investors.

Oh man, NGev has investors now, ha.