Negative feedback thread for kcarcadegame

[mrasmus]

No, I didn't say that he has zero say in what's shipped to him.

I said based on the size of his operation and him being a one man show, I don't think he does any Quality Control when they arrive. So if the distributor fucked up, that get's passed on.

Those are two very different things.

I mean... if I have a soda machine in my store, and the guy stocking it from the distributor puts Diet Pepsi where Pepsi should be, it's on me to make sure that somebody who says "hey I pressed the Pepsi button, what the heck" gets their pepsi, or gets a refund. I'm profiting from the sale, so I have to make sure it's what I advertised. Even if it's someone else's fault, I'm the one who owns the machine that says "This will be Pepsi, come buy a Pepsi."

One of the (myriad) problems with that analogy is that a refund for an arcade cabinet, in my case at least, doesn't actually return all of my investment.

 

[Kagaden]

You're misreading the post.

The point is that the pic he posted should have been a sign that, maybe, possibly, perhaps, the shoddy way in which KCs cabs are shipped is ALSO kcs decision.

Why are none of the cabs in the other importers unload videos like this? Don't give KC a pass and point the finger at the exporters; there are poor decisions being made on how he wants his cabs shipped, and based on how the other importers receive their cabs, it's a fair assumption to say that the cabs being shipped in this poor state is his decision.

I see your point now, thanks for clarifying.

I'm no packing and shipping expert and since the bottom sides look protected & they don't look like they can move or damage each other - I don't want to assume this is a poor way to ship this cabinet. Maybe Cereth has an opinion on that. I don't see anything wrong with it as long as no damage is done.

 

[GeeDee]

I don't see anything wrong with it as long as no damage is done.

Is the OP of this thread not proof that damage was done? What about the other buyer that OP got in touch with thats ALSO missing parts? What about This Recent Thread about issues with busted chunithm LEDs? (assuming theyre also a kc buyer since ive seen them in kcs thread before.)

The cabs were disassembled to pack in like sardines. The damage was done and it was *someones* decision to ship in this way before they reached the states. Based on how the other imports receive their cabinets, I think it's fair to guess whos decision that was to operate in bulk.

 

[mrasmus]

I see your point now, thanks for clarifying.

I'm no packing and shipping expert and since the bottom sides look protected I don't want to assume this is a poor way to ship this cabinet. Maybe Cereth has an opinion on that. I don't see anything wrong with it as long as no damage is done.

The funny thing is, I agree here to a large degree; at least, without the context of knowledge of the tradeoffs. It feels like there might be gains, shipping it this way -- or at least, deconstructed. Higher density, and maybe even less likelihood of things getting damaged (assuming they're protected and secured well; stacking all the side panels, etc, together in a protected way seems like a decent way to reduce the chance of something tipping over, reduce the center of gravity and whatnot. But it's then on him to make sure that everything that was taken off a cab gets put back on a cab, and he has a proven track record of... not being capable of that. Seems like premature optimization, but a method that would need reliable QC on the receiving end, which is a... weakpoint in his operation.

 

[Kagaden]

Is the OP of this thread not proof that damage was done? What about the other buyer that OP got in touch with thats ALSO missing parts?

The cabs were disassembled to pack in like sardines. The damage was done and it was *someones* decision to ship in this way before they reached the states. Based on how the other imports receive their cabinets, I think it's fair to guess whos decision that was to operate in bulk.

Look man, sorry if my opinion upset you. It may be unpopular but it's been my experience in a similar situation and based on what I've seen in my interactions with him + visiting his warehouse a few times over the years (but didn't purchase back then).

Coorelating the shipping picture seems like grasping at straws and chasing ghosts to me to find some proof of wrongdoing. There's no way for me to know or prove that the cabs being shipped on their sides had anything to do with any of this - other than it was the same shipment. It does look weird, but it also looks pretty clever to keep them from moving during shipping too... I have zero expertise in this so my opinion means shit.

Have you personally purchased from KC before and had a negative experience?

 

[mrasmus]

Look man, sorry if my opinion upset you. It may be unpopular but it's been my experience in a similar situation. The coorelating the shipping picture seems like grasping at straws and chasing ghosts to me to find some proof of wrongdoing. There's no way for me to know or prove that the cabs being shipped on their sides had anything to do with any of this - other than it was the same shipment.

Have you personally purchased from KC before and had a negative experience?

I mean, I think GeeDee's point is that, the root cause of these machines having missing/incorrect parts shipped out with them to customers is pretty plainly because KC isn't doing a good job of confirming all the parts are in a set as necessary. Assuming he asks for them to be disassembled, it's his process that's causing the issue -- having to reassemble the cabinets, and he's not paying enough attention to confirm that all the right parts are getting batched up for each. So while packing them in like that doesn't, itself, gaurantee there will be an issue, it creates an opportunity for him to drop the ball... which he's done, repeatedly. If the cabs were sent as whole cabinets (as other distributors do), it seems like it would reduce the chance of these types of issues happening.

EDIT: He hasn't claimed that nobody sent, say, my side panels -- he confirmed that he had them, and would send them along. So they were in a pile of parts he had, and he didn't batch them with my parts when he sent them along. Assuming he chose this packing method for the upstream distributor (which appears to be the case), then it's his own processes causing these issues.

 

[GeeDee]

I'm not upset, nor did you upset me my man. I'm just tired of seeing good people getting burned, watching the cycle continue after a couple folks chime in with a "well my experience was alright". I wanna see people have positive experience here and it's just a bummer when this happens.

All im saying is, I'm putting the observation out there that no other importers cabs seem to show up like that in their very transparent unload videos, and somehow, the ONE importer that has a reputation for poor quality has a pic of cabs half disassembled in a shipping container, and Buyers are Missing Parts. I'm not willing to believe it's the exporters first idea to ship with quantity>quality organization in mind when the container is going to the importer known for liquidation/bulk. Obv they let it go in this way at the end of the day, but I very much don't think it was the exporters first choice to do so. If KC can't ensure the stuff gets reassembled properly, why not just not disassemble before shipping? If you don't see the correlation between disassembled cabs and cabs showing up to buyers missing parts, then I'm not sure what other proof to give you that this was a bad deal from the get-go.

Have you personally purchased from KC before and had a negative experience?

I made the decision to never buy from kc after the first thread I saw like this long long ago. Why would I risk this gambit when there's been barely a peep of shipping issues from the other importers? As usual and like I said before here, if you're in cali, I'm sure your experience buying local is fine. Everyone who's able to visit local always has the positive experiences to chime in with. Everyone else on the other hand: One bad horror story with shipping something like these is enough for me; I don't need to risk it when there's other options for cabs, even if that means exercising a little more patience and opening the wallet a little more to make sure what I'm getting is quality through the whole process.

 

[Kagaden]

I mean, I think GeeDee's point is that, the root cause of these machines having missing/incorrect parts shipped out with them to customers is pretty plainly because KC isn't doing a good job of confirming all the parts are in a set as necessary. Assuming he asks for them to be disassembled, it's his process that's causing the issue -- having to reassemble the cabinets, and he's not paying enough attention to confirm that all the right parts are getting batched up for each. So while packing them in like that doesn't, itself, gaurantee there will be an issue, it creates an opportunity for him to drop the ball... which he's done, repeatedly. If the cabs were sent as whole cabinets (as other distributors do), it seems like it would reduce the chance of these types of issues happening.

EDIT: He hasn't claimed that nobody sent, say, my side panels -- he confirmed that he had them, and would send them along. So they were in a pile of parts he had, and he didn't batch them with my parts when he sent them along. Assuming he chose this packing method for the upstream distributor (which appears to be the case), then it's his own processes causing these issues.

Yeah, I see that point now too. Thanks Mrasmus & Geedee. I know nothing about these cabs and how they're shipped... but assuming they look like this fully assembled -

It's like... made to look like it'll tip over and I'd be nervous sending it over the pacific like that. I'm pretty sure I've seen Cereth's disassembled too, but upright? So disassembly may be best practice and the right decision.

I completely agree with you that KC's responsible for QC and shipping the full set though. Never said he wasn't, just that it's a flaw/risk in his business we take from buying from him and why I believe it's there and probably won't get better unless he gets some help.

I made the decision to never buy from kc after the first thread I saw like this long long ago. Why would I risk this gambit when there's been barely a peep of shipping issues from the other importers? As usual and like I said before here, if you're in cali, I'm sure your experience buying local is fine. Everyone who's able to visit local always has the positive experiences to chime in with. Everyone else on the other hand: One bad horror story with shipping something like these is enough for me; I don't need to risk it when there's other options for cabs, even if that means exercising a little more patience and opening the wallet a little more to make sure what I'm getting is quality through the whole process.

I didn't buy local due to the pandemic, both shipments were shipped to me blind - same as mrasmus. I knew I was taking a chance with it and for the most part I had a good experience and less good experience. And I think it'd be good for you to realize since you haven't purchased a cabinet from KC, you probably only have negative experiences from other forum members to draw from.

Personally, my concern is a community becoming unreasonably toxic and turning every dispute into a public lynching, which is why I'm speaking up. Importing is complex. Shit happens, often that sucks when it does. I do think KC will make it right though for him, he did for me.

 

[GeeDee]

I'm pretty sure I've seen Cereth's disassembled too, but upright?

This is just one example so certith is welcome to chime in on his own practices if he wants (I figured being in the biz he may not want to speak on how kc does things), but here's a vid of him unwrapping a chunithm, plastics still assembled upright.

(Around 3:55) Here's another chunithm from a more recent vid, shipped upright, (appears to be) fully assembled, truck literally backing into the warehouse and seeing how they show up for the first time at the same time as Cerith sees them:

 

[Kagaden]

This is just one example so certith is welcome to chime in on his own practices if he wants (I figured being in the biz he may not want to speak on how kc does things), but here's a vid of him unwrapping a chunithm, plastics still assembled upright.

(Around 3:55) Here's another chunithm from a more recent vid, shipped upright, (appears to be) fully assembled, truck literally backing into the warehouse and seeing how they show up for the first time at the same time as Cerith sees them:

Well I did say my opinion meant jack on that. GG GD You win buddy, have a good night.

 

[mrasmus]

Personally, my concern is a community becoming unreasonably toxic and turning every dispute into a public lynching, which is why I'm speaking up. Importing is complex. Shit happens, often that sucks when it does. I do think KC will make it right though for him, he did for me.

"Lynching" is a bit harsh. I appreciate your perspective, and I'm honestly happy that you've had positive experiences with him, just... people talking about the idea that he's a liability to the community, because newcomers getting burned isn't really a great look, I think is fair. You coming in with your own experience is a totally valid thing to do, but doesn't negate the bad experiences people have had -- and the fact is that there have been some horror stories. I got off fairly light, in comparison to some of the shit I've heard he's pulled on people.

 

[mrasmus]

I won't pretend to know what's right for the forum, but I think some standards would be valuable within the sales threads, personally. Stuff like expectation of prices with each listing, disclosure of certain types of missing parts, and standard resolution timeframes from sellers, with some teeth behind incidents where they fail to resolve things appropriately.

For example: If an undisclosed missing part is identified by a buyer, the seller should be given a reasonable timeframe to get it out to them (say, 2 weeks). If they communicate there's an issue with that timeframe (say, they're working on getting it from their parts source) then they can work out an extension with the buyer; if that's not agreeable to the buyer, or if the seller can't source in a timely fashion, a reasonable market value for the parts should be determined and refunded so the buyer can source them separately. This would be a process that could (and, I'd assume, more or less is in many cases) reasonably done just between the buyer and the seller in most cases. If things start to go sideways, either party reach out to mods to help seek resolution. If a party is repeatedly failing to meet the community standards outlined, they stop being able to list here (for some amount of time, or increasing penalties, whatever; just... give the policy some teeth.)

My goal would be to set a minimum standard of responsiveness, communication, and transparency that everyone can expect when interacting with other members in a transaction like this. Setting such boundaries, in my experience, is better for both parties. It shouldn't be onerous in either direction, just... you don't want to leave buyers holding the bag because a seller did a poor job listing something.

Just one possible direction to go, if the community wants to build a framework to improve the situation.

 

[Cereth]

No, I didn't say that he has zero say in what's shipped to him.

I said based on the size of his operation and him being a one man show, I don't think he does any Quality Control when they arrive. So if the distributor fucked up, that get's passed on.

Those are two very different things.

I am a one man show, and I import more volume than KC right now.

For reference, for rhinfs like how these cabs were packed, the fact that they don’t come with locks, the reason all his Vewlixes don’t come with IOs, the reason why a higher proportion of what he buys is junk, those are all pure greed. I’ve said it elsewhere before, but I buy from most of the same distributors he does. I do not have those problems. He removes locks so he can sell them for more money. He removes IOs because he can sell them for more money. He takes cabs apart, stacks them on the sides so he can sell them for more money. He buys the cheapest product in the worst condition why? Money. Everything is for money. You CANNOT excuse him on these things when he’s the only person to go to that has those problems and think there isn’t an ulterior motive. He has been shorting people for a decade just to prey on extra income from small things that should be included from the distributor. His distributors are not at fault for any of those things. He is the one who makes things be that way.

Shipping here cabs this way and them showing up with missing parts is KC’s fault 100%. He said “I’d like to make an extra $150 each on these cabs, ship them apart on their sides”, then failed spectacularly to actually put them together for people. I don’t see how it can be any other way. He could yanno, NOT fuck over every buyer of said cabs to line his pockets with $150 each.

Reason people are “lynching” him is every time someone says something negative, 5-10 people come running in to back him up and punish anyone who speaks ill, issues get swept under the carpet, and nothing gets done. People continue to get suckered in, and we just sit back and watch good people get dicked over, repeatedly, and it has to stop somewhere. Those same 5-10 people aren’t rushing forward to clean up the mess every time it happens, just assuring that more people can get screwed in the future, and for what? A slim extra chance of getting what they want? I don’t get it. 10 “but my interaction was fine”s don’t make up for one horrible one, and there’s a lot more than 1 in 10 with problems. It’s been years, KC isn’t getting any better. If he isn’t ever going to be held accountable for what he does, the responsibility falls on every single person in this forum for allowing this behavior, and let’s be honest, not a single one of us would last more than 2-3 transactions like what he does without getting banned or restricted.

I mentioned before I’ve sold 50 CHUNITHM in the last 6 weeks, without posting them here. If anyone thinks I’m in this just because he’s a “competitor”, abolish the thought now. This has nothing to do with anything as petty as competition. Before I started my business, I was burned by KC, just like the rest. I don’t want others to keep going through what so many already have when it’s plainly obvious KC intends to keep doing it, consciously, and without any remorse.

 

[mrasmus]

The real rich part is that he was complaining about the hassle I'd become when he was saying he'd push through a return, and kept saying it wasn't worth providing the support I was asking for all for $200 profit, and like... that's an odd number, I can't help but notice. $200 is the discount he was offering buyers in February for buying the same cab, from the same lot, as I did -- discounted off the $2000 I paid.

If he was only making $200 from my sale, then he's trying to tell me he was offering the whole rest of that batch of cabs for zero profit? I call bullshit. I don't know what margins he runs, realistically, on these sales, but it's not a conspiracy theory to think he isn't doing them out of the goodness of his heart.

And if the cost of providing basic post-sale support to fix your own mistakes puts you in the red on a sale... you've mis-priced your merchandise. Again, not the buyer's fault.

But none of the math checks out anyway; you can't make logical assumptions about his operation when he'd rather eat hundreds of dollars of freight to process a return just because he doesn't wanna ship out a couple parts from his warehouse in a timely fashion. The only way that makes business sense, to me, is that if he's using it as a bullying tool to get problem buyers to go away.

 

[Cereth]

If he was only making $200 from my sale, then he's trying to tell me he was offering the whole rest of that batch of cabs for zero profit? I call bullshit. I don't know what margins he runs, realistically, on these sales, but it's not a conspiracy theory to think he isn't doing them out of the goodness of his heart.

I DO know the extreme low price that large distributors like myself and KC get, and the higher price that people importing only 1-3 containers a year pay. Even at that higher price, there's plenty of profit margin after calculating operating expenses and freight costs. He could have sold all 20 quickly if he hadn't gotten himself banned from most outlets, and he didn't have to risk cabs on their sides, dismantled to do it. He took that risk, and his customers aren't supposed to be the ones getting punished for it. He is. You know who else gets greedy, makes mistakes, buries themselves, gets bailed out, and ultimately the little man foots the bill? Banks. Don't bail out KC just because he's "too big to fail".

 

[thomas3184]

See the same comments all the time. KC screwed me over, go to cereth. But cereth doesn’t have crt candies, well guess you gotta go back to KC, just make sure you go pick it up yourself.

 

[mattsoft]

Sounds like having someone trustworthy in SoCal -- a middleman -- who could visit KC's warehouse and selectively pick items for buyers would be helpful. Sounds like a lot of work, but you'd win the love and admiration of many.

 

[jassin000]

Sounds like a lot of work, but you'd win the love and admiration of many.

If I was local to the area, I'd do it.
But... It would have a "service fee" attached because yes, driving out and picking threw inventory its a lot of (pain in the ass) work.

How much would people be willing to pay for such a service, thats the real question.

 

[mattsoft]

If I was local to the area, I'd do it.
But... It would have a "service fee" attached because yes, driving out and picking threw inventory its a lot of work.

Oh yeah, a service fee would be a must. But I would pay a 10-20% service fee (for example) to ensure a complete or nice(r) cabinet rather than a pile of garbage.

 

[thomas3184]

There was a guy, it’s too much work, not worth the time and money doing this as a hobby.