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Nimmers

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Any CPS1 gurus here able to help me out with this CPS1 board I got? Image here: http://imgur.com/a/79Elb

Trying to figure out if it's running at its correct speed. I can't find anything definitive but I'm concerned that because its on an older long A board that it might be running slower than it's meant to?

Cheers!
 

PascalP

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Street Fighter 2 World Warrios runs on the 'old' 10MHz board
Street Fighter 2 Champion Edition and Hyper fighting run on the 12MHz board.

So yes, it will run slow on a 10Mhz board ;)
Can't tell you how noticable it is, never tried switching my A boards around.
 

xodaraP

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I switched mine around when I was trying to repair my Hyper Fighting (bad PAL on the B board and what appears to be a bad custom on the A board, so it's 50% fixed)

I didn't notice any difference but I probably also didn't play enough to notice. The shorter board is known as a CPS1 dash board and has the faster CPU and I think the Z80 is also clocked higher.

I can try using my World Warrior or Final Fight A board with Hyper Fighting at some point and see the result, but if you're using that setup now and have noticed a difference I'd say you're right.
 

Nimmers

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I can try using my World Warrior or Final Fight A board with Hyper Fighting at some point and see the result, but if you're using that setup now and have noticed a difference I'd say you're right.
I'm not 100% sure, I have only recently got back into it with buying this board. As a kid I played in the arcade and on SNES, in recent years I played on Groovymame so my sense of timing isn't going to be too good.

It doesn't look like it was swapped, both the A and B board have that same "void warranty APR 1992" sticker on them so I assume these have been together since then. Possibly it was upgraded from another game then? Do you think on your good one you could check with a stopwatch? 1 Round for me from 99-0 is 56.5 seconds.
 

jassin000

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The board combo is WRONG!

Hyper Fighting is based on CE, CE uses a CPSdash A-board, that is an original "long" A-board.
See my (correct) board in this image...
zcP22n7.jpg


The family breaks down like this...

CPS1 Long
CPS1 Short
CPS1'(dash) Short faster mhz clock
CPS1.5 faster mhz clock+Qsound

Mixing up the A boards will result in a slower/incorrect moving SF2HF.
Do you think on your good one you could check with a stopwatch? 1 Round for me from 99-0 is 56.5 seconds.
Totally unnecessary. ;)

I have all of the above listed CPS1 revision A-boards in working condition.
The worse is without a doubt the original longboards.

For classic games I prefer the CPS1 short boards, I swapped my Final Fight onto one of these...
Fits so much better inside the Vewlix :D
 
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fluxcore

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I've been meaning to do a side-by-side of HF on a cps1 vs a cps1-dash board, because I was convinced they had obvious timing differences due to the clock speed, however when I've tried them separately they didn't actually seem that different. There must be something to it, but I'm not sure that it's as simple as 'game just runs faster on a dash board'.
 

Nimmers

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Do you think on your good one you could check with a stopwatch? 1 Round for me from 99-0 is 56.5 seconds.
Totally unnecessary. ;)
Thanks for the info! Would still be cool to know how different it is.

I found one post with a guy saying he had 2 cabinets and one was the same here: saying he's got 2 cabinets and one his stopwatch test is the same as my 56 seconds and the other is around 53 seconds. Perhaps that's the difference?
 

xodaraP

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Didn't seem that different to me either, but it really is that simple, games back then were written specifically for the expected clock speed of the CPU so if that's different than expected it will run faster or slower than expected

I really need to get my short board fixed for CE/HF :( once I have that I actually own arcade forms of all SF games up to 4 (the only other one I don't have is a SF3 Second Impact cart, have the other 2 and one is modded)
 

Nimmers

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Didn't seem that different to me either, but it really is that simple
But is it that simple? Maybe my maths sucks but:

! work out how much slower 10Mhz is than 12Mhz - looks like a 10Mhz board runs at 83.33% of the speed that a 12Mhz board should.
10/12 x 100/1 = 83.33

! Work out how much it should lag over a 60 second period.
60 x 0.8333 = 49.999

But I don't think this is losing 10 seconds every 60 seconds.
 

Nimmers

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Then there's this: Link

Just to muddy up the waters some more:

THE EMULATION SPEED ISSUE.
There has been alot of debate about the running speed of HF under
emulation. For those who don't know, HF runs faster than the origonal
arcade board under emulation (within Mame & Winkawaks) this is
because the speed of the game in HF was linked to the CPU speed of the
board (or something like that). I have repeatedly timed the full round
'time out' matches of the tourney vids I'm posting, and the correct
emulation using the fantastic old Callus Emulator. I've concluded that a
round (going by when the clock starts & finishes) is around:
57 SECONDS
In both Mame and WinKawaks under normal settings a round will last approx
46.5 SECONDS
clearly a significant speed inrease, and 'very' noticable when played
side by side. Thankfully there is an emulator (besides the fantastic
but defunct 'Callus') that runs the game at the correct speed, 'nFBA'.
For more info see ONLINE PLAY section at the top of the page for more
info:
 

xodaraP

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Remember that the CPU isn't going to be running at full speed all the time, it's all about cycles
 

freddiefiasco

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The board combo is WRONG!

Hyper Fighting is based on CE, CE uses a CPSdash A-board, that is an original "long" A-board.
See my (correct) board in this image...
zcP22n7.jpg


The family breaks down like this...

CPS1 Long
CPS1 Short
CPS1'(dash) Short faster mhz clock
CPS1.5 faster mhz clock+Qsound

Mixing up the A boards will result in a slower/incorrect moving SF2HF.
Do you think on your good one you could check with a stopwatch? 1 Round for me from 99-0 is 56.5 seconds.
Totally unnecessary. ;)
I have all of the above listed CPS1 revision A-boards in working condition.
The worse is without a doubt the original longboards.

For classic games I prefer the CPS1 short boards, I swapped my Final Fight onto one of these...
Fits so much better inside the Vewlix :D
Don't mean to interject, do you have a reference image for the other CPS boards?
I have an issue on mine that I am working on and now I'm curious what the others look like.
(Mine is labeled 898626A-4)
 

xodaraP

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The long board extends out about 15cm (6 inches) in front of the B board (which has the EPROMs on it, middle board in the stack)

The short and Dash variants are almost completely covered by the B board (maybe an inch or 2/2-5cm sticking out with the JAMMA edge on the end)

The Q sound boards are in a grey case that looks similar to the black CPS2 all in one boards.
 

fluxcore

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I wouldn't go by anything MAME-wise for timing. It was incredibly off back when that discussion was occurring, '05 or something. Crazily obviously wrong, to the point it was ridiculous that it got released like that and noone thought it was weird.
 

wigsplitta

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I switched mine around when I was trying to repair my Hyper Fighting (bad PAL on the B board and what appears to be a bad custom on the A board, so it's 50% fixed)

I didn't notice any difference but I probably also didn't play enough to notice. The shorter board is known as a CPS1 dash board and has the faster CPU and I think the Z80 is also clocked higher.

I can try using my World Warrior or Final Fight A board with Hyper Fighting at some point and see the result, but if you're using that setup now and have noticed a difference I'd say you're right.
I had an issue with one of my shorter CPS1 Dash motherboards in the past, so I used to switch between the longer CPS1 that came with Final Fight, and Shorter CPS1 dash from Hyper Fighting.
Like you, I didn't really play enough to notice any speed differences on Street Fighter.
I did however notice a pretty big difference when playing Final Fight - not speed as such, but when there were a few barrels and enemies on screen there was noticeable slowdown using the longer board. The shorter dash board showed no slowdown at all :)
 

jassin000

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I had an issue with one of my shorter CPS1 Dash motherboards in the past
CPSDash boards only came in short. ?(
I did however notice a pretty big difference when playing Final Fight - not speed as such, but when there were a few barrels and enemies on screen there was noticeable slowdown using the longer board. The shorter dash board showed no slowdown at all
I play my Final Fight on a short CPS(1) board, but not a dash.
Don't mean to interject, do you have a reference image for the other CPS boards?
This is my FF B-board attached to a short (factory came in long only) CPS(1) A-board...
prPazxF.jpg


With that above image, the only board images missing from this thread are the long and 1.5 revisions.
 

Nimmers

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Sucks for me I guess. Is it particularly hard to find the dash boards? Anyone have any good tips on how I might find one?
 

jassin000

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Better change to buy a complete board set with B+C boards included
Yup this exactly! Look for a complete/working SF2:CE board set. :thumbup:

Bonus you can sell the CPS1 longboard, and if you don't want to keep both CE and HF B+C boardsets...
You can (or rather you I guess could pay someone) to burn the conversion ROMs to make other CPS1 games out of that B+C board combo. :saint:

Check out this GnG conversion that was made from a SF2:CE.
N0mJRDB.jpg


The give-away that this is a conversion? Banks and banks of flashroms visible just under the repo stickers.
I also circled (in red) the A-board version (which is hard to read because of the poor lighting quality of the image) that if you zoom it... CPSDash!
Because again, it's a conversion made from CE, not a "real" GnG board. ;)

P.S. That's also a CE C-board (B-21 security chip) above, it's been rebranded/stickered "Captain Commando" because I've got a conversion for that one too (but not another CE C-board). :P
pM1rSwg.jpg
 
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