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Just got into CPS-1, some questions I have.

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khamryn

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Hi everyone, hopefully I can get educated more about CPS-1 collecting. I have few questions.

1) Do I really need a 12mhz Dash board to play Hyper Fighting optimally?"
I've read conflicting and mixed claim, that you need a Dash board, that you can upgrade the crystal to 12mhz on a 10mhz board, and it doesn't matter. I've seen @YesAffinity video where he said that HF runs same on any board. He said in the same topic that he wasn't sure about CPS1-chains timing and there is also reports that input are harder on 10mhz board, does anyone now have the definitive answer to this?
)


2) I understand that bootleg/replicates boards was a problem for Capcom. With that said, how and what should be watched out for to avoid purchasing an non-legit board?

3) I'm interested in the Japanese "Turbo" version. I've seen one that was w/ a 10mhz crystal. It possible the A-board could have been swapped (12mhz"Dash" to a 10mhz"short") at some point, but is there any variations or differences between how Hyper Fighting was distributed in Japan compared to USA that I should be aware of?
 
khamryn said:
Do I really need a 12mhz Dash board to play Hyper Fighting optimally?"
Click to expand...
Yes, starting with CE SF2 requires a 12mhz crystal/A-board for proper play back (timing of game play is wrong without it).
khamryn said:
how and what should be watched out for to avoid purchasing an non-legit board?
Click to expand...
Bootlegs look nothing like real hardware and are easy to spot, conversions use real hardware and can be harder to identify.
Look at the Mask ROM space, if the Masks have been replaced with EPROMs its most likely a conversion (but it could be an internal/factory job).
khamryn said:
I've seen one that was w/ a 10mhz crystal. It possible the A-board could have been swapped (12mhz"Dash" to a 10mhz"short") at some point
Click to expand...
Yes it WAS 100% swapped, because again starting with CE ALL SF2 games sold used the 12mhz A-board.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
jassin000 said:
Yes, starting with CE SF2 requires a 12mhz crystal/A-board for proper play back (timing of game play is wrong without it).
Click to expand...
Thanks. So does this mean if I have a 10mhz board (short) and replace the 10mhz crystal to 12mhz it still wouldn't play "properly".


jassin000 said:
Yes it WAS 100% swapped, because again starting with CE ALL SF2 games sold used the 12mhz A-board.
Click to expand...
Out of curiosity, which games commonly came on the 89626A-4 (non-dash) boards?
 
khamryn said:
which games commonly came on the 89626A-4 (non-dash) boards?
Click to expand...
We had a Wiki some place, I forget the link... Just remember that "non-dash" includes both long AND short A-boards revisions (both used 10mhz crystal).
 
that video was made prior to some of the more comprehensive discussions. A lot of the speculation of improved gameplay on 12mhz is based on "feeling" of less slowdown etc. I'm convinced there are differences for some games, maybe more than we know, but documenting it conclusively is very difficult. I now have 2 identical ce rom sets and a ce b/c set and a hf b/c set. I may try running ce side by side on a 10mhz and 12 mhz, to see if theres any timing differences. I have run 2 ww sets side by side, and there is no difference in timing. Interestingly even across different game revisions, attract mode is identical...tested for about 20 minutes.
 
YesAffinity said:
I have run 2 ww sets side by side, and there is no difference in timing.
Click to expand...
You won't see a difference in WW because that ran on 10mhz originally and isn't affected by the faster clock speed available.
CE and HF however both ran on 12mhz originally, and if you run them on a 10mhz it will bog down, allowing for some combos that can't be preformed on actual/proper 12mhz hardware.
 
jassin000 said:
We had a Wiki some place, I forget the link... Just remember that "non-dash" includes both long AND short A-boards revisions (both used 10mhz crystal).
Click to expand...
Yes. I'm aware pretty much all CPS1 are 10mhz except "dash" and "1.5 Q-Sound".

opt2not said:
a crystal swap is all you need to do to get it up to the proper timings.I did it to my board, and never looked back. :thumbup:
Click to expand...
Hey, I found your blog while doing research before making this topic, lol. I though it might matter since isn't the 6800 also overclocked to 12mhz on the "dash" boards?
In your opinion, is it better to find a 12mhz "dash" board or find a cheaper 10mhz and do the crystal swap in consideration for future proofing for the multi kit? Also any recommendations on where I can find the correct 12mhz Crystal?

YesAffinity said:
that video was made prior to some of the more comprehensive discussions. A lot of the speculation of improved gameplay on 12mhz is based on "feeling" of less slowdown etc. I'm convinced there are differences for some games, maybe more than we know, but documenting it conclusively is very difficult. I now have 2 identical ce rom sets and a ce b/c set and a hf b/c set. I may try running ce side by side on a 10mhz and 12 mhz, to see if theres any timing differences. I have run 2 ww sets side by side, and there is no difference in timing. Interestingly even across different game revisions, attract mode is identical...tested for about 20 minutes.
Click to expand...
Thanks for that video comparison you made a while back. I agree that more comparison that demonstrates the possible differences is needed. A good test would be to have two boards (10mhz vs 12mhz) being fed the same inputs to demonstrate the speed difference (if any) as well as how slowdown effects dropping inputs. I've read your finding on TG (https://www.twingalaxies.com/yesaffinity/wall/5958/street-fighter-2-10mhz-vs-12mhz) and you said it was "night and day" referring to input recognition. Is there any notable difference that you experienced between a true 12mhz board to one with a swapped crystal?
 
khamryn said:
Hey, I found your blog while doing research before making this topic, lol. I though it might matter since isn't the 6800 also overclocked to 12mhz on the "dash" boards?
In your opinion, is it better to find a 12mhz "dash" board or find a cheaper 10mhz and do the crystal swap in consideration for future proofing for the multi kit?
Click to expand...
Wanted to raise this question again. Don’t CPS1 Dash A boards come with a 12 MHz crystal and 12 MHz CPU? wouldnt you have to replace both crystal and CPU to run at the higher clock speed?
 
I’m assuming the 12mhz crystal would overclock the CPU?

For sanity and longevity, I’ve decided to stick with legit Dash boards straight from capcom.
 
djsheep said:
I’m assuming the 12mhz crystal would overclock the CPU?
Click to expand...
That’s what I’m hoping but would love to get confirmation of that. The CPS1 Dash CPUs say 12 instead of 10.
 
I have changed crystals over with no issues whatsoever using a 10mhz CPU. Just my common sense tells me over years this will have some small adverse affects?

I would more trust someone like @Apocalypse weighing in on the discussion though.
 
djsheep said:
I have changed crystals over with no issues whatsoever using a 10mhz CPU. Just my common sense tells me over years this will have some small adverse affects?

I would more trust someone like @Apocalypse weighing in on the discussion though.
Click to expand...
I had a look at many 10MHz boards, appart from the 10MHz rated 68000 (which should support the extra 2MHz overclock without trouble) everything else was rated the same speed (RAMs, etc.).
I even found 10MHz boards with 12MHz CPUs (thus running underclocked).
So to me there's no "risks", unless somehow the CPS-A-01 is different on 12MHz boards. But there's no way to tell.
 

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