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Napoleon IV

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Good afternoon everyone, I'm new to this forum so please pardon me if I say something wrong or if this thread is in the wrong place.

I am big into fighting games and a fan of Street Fighter III: Third Strike. I am willing to invest the money to buy a CPS3 board. I'm saving up money to purchase one of the Darksoft multi-game ones from nonostro, the French CPS3 vendor on this forum, somewhere down the line. I would like to be able to use my CPS3 as a console sort of, something I can bring to locals- I love cabs but I can't really drive them around so easily.

What I'm here to ask is, what sort of Supergun would I need for this to be possible? My locals have CRT televisions that can be rented for an evening, and I don't mind doing so every week to pitch in to the store, so I don't need a monitor- but I do need a supergun with Composite capability, as the CRT TVs do not have RGB sockets to my knowledge. I've heard that there are converters to go from RGB to Composite, but the problem with that is that they introduce extra input lag, which I want to avoid at all costs. Another thing that I would like to have is a USB port for controllers, as not everyone at my locals plays on a stick, and it would be nice if they can plug in their PS4 controllers into the supergun and just play.

I have found a supergun that fits my desires, and it's here:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/264500165805
But I'm not sure of how trustworthy it is (or if there is a better product that can suit my needs) and I wanted to ask here first.

If you have helpful information to share, please do share it, I would be most grateful. Thank you for your time.
 

ShootTheCore

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Hey Napoleon - welcome to the AP forums.

CPS3 is a cool platform, and I think once you get all setup, you'll be pretty happy with it. The background update mod that @riiya has produced for CPS3 Third Strike really improves the look of the game - highly recommended you try it with the Darksoft CPS3 Multi.

Let's talk SuperGuns.

As you likely already know, the CPS3 PCB is designed originally for a JAMMA arcade cabinet with a kick harness connector to provide the inputs for the three kick buttons. CPS3 also supports stereo Q Sound as an option by connecting amplified speakers to the RCA line level connectors. Ideally, you'll want a SuperGun that (A) will accept a JAMMA board, (B) provides kick harness support, (C) has a high-quality, adjustable power supply so that the CPS3 board is safe long-term, (D) is safe for the television or upscaler that you connect it to.

I'll be blunt - there's a bunch of SuperGun options out there right now and most of them are garbage. Many SuperGuns either don't attenuate the video output properly (dangerous for your TV or upscaler) or they doesn't provide safe, consistent power (dangerous for the CPS3). Some of them (like the ones made by Electroelectronik) have been known to have bad grounds that can burn out the controllers plugged into them.

The SuperGun on Ebay you linked to is one of the garbage ones. This SuperGun doesn't support the Capcom pinout kick harness so you won't be able to hookup the kick buttons for a CPS3 board without coming up with a custom connecting harness. Secondly, they don't say what kind of power supply they use - there's a dial for adjusting the power from 5.15V to 5.30V, but even 5.15V is too high. JAMMA boards, including CPS3, should be adjusted to be as close to 5.0V as possible. Trust me - stay away from this SuperGun.

There are a few quality SuperGuns that I can recommend that will meet your needs:

1) The Home Arcade System (HAS) is created and sold by @RGB on this forums. You may have to wait a bit to get one, but I think everyone on these forums agree that the HAS is one of the best SuperGuns money can buy. There's a thread (with links to the waiting list) about them here: https://www.arcade-projects.com/threads/home-arcade-system.332/#post-2521

2) The MiniGun was engineered by @Frank_fjs on these forums and is available as an open design that anyone can build. I'm sure someone on the forums here could assemble one for you. Maybe @hatmoose ? Thread is here: https://www.arcade-projects.com/threads/minigun-supergun-an-open-source-supergun.9408/

3) The Axun Workshop SuperGun Mini is engineered by @axunworks and supported by @drfunk2k . You can order it here: https://www.axunworks.com/product-p669501.html

The HAS SuperGun has Composite TV output as an option, but the MiniGun and SuperGun Mini do not. As long as you pick a good converter though, you should be able to get Composite picture without lag. Arcade boards don't output native composite so SuperGuns that have Composite output are likely using a powered converter to provide that functionality anyway.

@axunworks announced that he's working on a device that can convert RGB SCART or VGA Input into Composite or S-Video output. I strongly recommend you pick up one of his converters when it releases if composite video is important to you. Details here: https://www.retrorgb.com/rgb-to-composite-s-video-converter-announced.html
 

hatmoose

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Hi Team;

I've been making some "MiniGun" superguns based on the astonishingly good engineering work that FrankFJS did - Frank if you ever read this what you do is valued and appreciated!

As @ShootTheCore said, there are a massive number of absolute rubbish superguns out there - There are many tales of misery and woe on this (and every other board) from people who bought Aliexpress rubbish Supergun drop-shipped on eBay and regretted it. This one was a badly made ebay power cable... https://www.arcade-projects.com/threads/minigun-supergun-an-open-source-supergun.9408/page-77
You're probably going to be paying a decent chunk of change for a working CPS3 setup - I would not let an untested eBay supergun anywhere near an investment like that. Some of the members of this board have indivdual boards worth many thousands each. For those I'd want to know that my Supergun + Power had full component traceability back to supplier, that it had been hand-tuned on an oscilloscope, and the receipts/prints to prove it

HAS and Axun are your best options if you want to buy something. If you want to make your own you can see what is involved in making a MiniGun here https://www.arcade-projects.com/thr...d-the-projects-that-others-have-shared.17296/

As shootthecore mentioned None of these supergun options are going to address 100% of your use case out of the box - also consider
1) Some kind of USB 2 DB15 interface for the controls
This is my favorite https://www.arcade-projects.com/thr...or-supergun-adapter.14205/page-15#post-278259
2) Some kind of RGB to Composite video converter for the CRT
Axun works are making cool stuff as others have already said https://www.axunworks.com/product-p341706.html
3) Some kind of case to put the CPS3 board thing into
This one is so beautiful to me https://www.trfightstick.com/product-page/cps-3-custom-metal-case
 

Napoleon IV

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Thank you fellas for the feedback, these are all the answers I was looking for.

There are a few quality SuperGuns that I can recommend that will meet your needs:
I am not an electrician and neither is anyone in my immediate (or extended) family, so I do not have the resources or the know-how to make my own mini-supergun, I would rather purchase one from someone more experienced. I'm liking the HAS supergun, but it seems like the waiting list is on hold. I won't be purchasing the CPS3 for about two months as I need to save money, but without a reference of time as to when the HAS will be available I don't want to rely on it (though I am very much liking the Composite converter it is compatible with). Unless it becomes available by the time I purchase my CPS3, I will plan to buy the Axun supergun, and his RGB to Composite converter.
As shootthecore mentioned None of these supergun options are going to address 100% of your use case out of the box - also consider
1) Some kind of USB 2 DB15 interface for the controls
This is my favorite https://www.arcade-projects.com/thr...or-supergun-adapter.14205/page-15#post-278259
2) Some kind of RGB to Composite video converter for the CRT
Axun works are making cool stuff as others have already said https://www.axunworks.com/product-p341706.html
3) Some kind of case to put the CPS3 board thing into
This one is so beautiful to me https://www.trfightstick.com/product-page/cps-3-custom-metal-case
I'm liking these. I'm curious, does the USB 2 DB15 interface introduce lag, or no? I've seen the Undamned USB converter and am curious about that one as well. I will spend as much money as possible on the best converter if it means no lag. That CPS3 case is beautiful as well, at first I was going to get the clear Acrylic case, but you've changed my mind- that's a damn beautiful case.

All of that being said, my last concern is what power supply I should get. I know arcade boards are very specific about the voltage they receive and too high or too low can make them either malfunction or take damage which is scary considering the money I'm spending.
 

Aurich

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I'm curious, does the USB 2 DB15 interface introduce lag, or no? I've seen the Undamned USB converter and am curious about that one as well. I will spend as much money as possible on the best converter if it means no lag.
The answer to both questions is no, they do not introduce lag, and are the standard.
 

ShootTheCore

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All of that being said, my last concern is what power supply I should get. I know arcade boards are very specific about the voltage they receive and too high or too low can make them either malfunction or take damage which is scary considering the money I'm spending.

Great question on the power supply. First off, if you go with the HAS or a MiniGun SuperGun, use an arcade power supply designed for a cabinet. A list of quality supplies is here:
https://www.arcade-projects.com/threads/budget-arcade-power-supplies.10294/post-269770

The AxunWorks SuperGun comes with its own non-adjustable power supply.

If you want the AxunWorks SuperGun, place your order sooner rather than later. They aren't built ahead of time and it takes several weeks for an order to be filled.
 

Napoleon IV

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The answer to both questions is no, they do not introduce lag, and are the standard.
Alright, thank you for that, I'll be sure to pick them up.
Great question on the power supply. First off, if you go with the HAS or a MiniGun SuperGun, use an arcade power supply designed for a cabinet. A list of quality supplies is here:
https://www.arcade-projects.com/threads/budget-arcade-power-supplies.10294/post-269770

The AxunWorks SuperGun comes with its own non-adjustable power supply.

If you want the AxunWorks SuperGun, place your order sooner rather than later. They aren't built ahead of time and it takes several weeks for an order to be filled.
Very well, Is there anything else I need to be ordering sooner or later? I'll pick up the AxunWorks SuperGun after my next paycheck. Other than that, my only concern is whether or not the RGB to Composite converter will introduce extra lag as well.
 

Aurich

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Just to be clear, when you say composite, you mean the TVs have a yellow video input RCA jack, and then red and white ones for sound, right? You'd be hard pressed to find a crummier way to display a video signal on a TV, unless they'll rent you one with an RF jack.

I honestly have no idea if someone makes a DB15 to composite cable, maybe it exists, but you're kind of asking for support for a standard no one in retro wants to touch because it's so terrible.

While you're waiting to save up etc next time you're there ask if you can take a picture of the inputs on the TV so we can see what you're working with. Maybe they at least have S-Video
 

hatmoose

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Another option for video output to modern TVs would be the DigiAV and interface. These are no-lag and will generate an hdmi output which is much easier to handle.
these were originally designed for CPS2, but also work with CPS3 (and neo-geo)
https://videogameperfection.com/products/cps2-cps3-digital-av-interface-diy-kit/
Of course there is still the issue that although the digiAV is no-lag many digital TVs are laggy as.
Installing the digiAV is not the sort of thing you want to do as your first electronics project…
 

Napoleon IV

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Just to be clear, when you say composite, you mean the TVs have a yellow video input RCA jack, and then red and white ones for sound, right? You'd be hard pressed to find a crummier way to display a video signal on a TV, unless they'll rent you one with an RF jack.

I honestly have no idea if someone makes a DB15 to composite cable, maybe it exists, but you're kind of asking for support for a standard no one in retro wants to touch because it's so terrible.

While you're waiting to save up etc next time you're there ask if you can take a picture of the inputs on the TV so we can see what you're working with. Maybe they at least have S-Video
I was there this evening, I checked and there is one CRT TV that supports RGB. I'll be fine, won't need a converter! And yes, I did mean the yellow video and red/white sound input for Composite.

I’d jump on the Undamned USB decoders ASAP if they’re available-they tend to sell out quickly.
^THAT^ — those things are worth their weight in gold…
Alright, I'll be sure to check the page they're sold on every day so I can grab one when they drop.

Another option for video output to modern TVs would be the DigiAV and interface. These are no-lag and will generate an hdmi output which is much easier to handle.
these were originally designed for CPS2, but also work with CPS3 (and neo-geo)
https://videogameperfection.com/products/cps2-cps3-digital-av-interface-diy-kit/
Of course there is still the issue that although the digiAV is no-lag many digital TVs are laggy as.
Installing the digiAV is not the sort of thing you want to do as your first electronics project…
I'd like to avoid HDMI because of the laggy monitors. I ride and die with CRT.

I think this was everything I needed to know, thank you all very much for the answers. Once I start getting parts, I may make another thread to post my build as I begin assembling it, and in it I will ask questions if I have any.
 

Napoleon IV

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djsheep

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Using that one you have to wire up to a DB15 port yourself or directly to the target somehow.

The UD-DB15 has one input port for your USB stick and then it just plugs into the DB15 port on the Supergun.
 

Aurich

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I was there this evening, I checked and there is one CRT TV that supports RGB. I'll be fine, won't need a converter!
So just as a point of clarification, it's very unlikely the CRT supports RGB, what you most likely saw was component input. Which confusingly uses red, blue, and green cables. And will look great, and is a good option to have. But isn't, strictly speaking, RGB.

It's actually YPbPr. And really only giant nerds will care about the difference, the quality is fine, but it's good to know what it really is so when you're looking for cables or asking questions you're using the right terminology and not ending up with the wrong thing or getting confused. Just look for component cables for your supergun and you'll be set.

Good news though, that's a big leap up from composite. Good luck!
 

MetalliC

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So just as a point of clarification, it's very unlikely the CRT supports RGB, what you most likely saw was component input. Which confusingly uses red, blue, and green cables. And will look great, and is a good option to have. But isn't, strictly speaking, RGB.

It's actually YPbPr.
if I not mistaken, many of later CRT TVs distributed in NTSC countries had SCART connector (= RGB input), and for sure almost all of TVs for European/UK market had SCART
 

Aurich

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Yeah, if it wasn't for retro nerds nobody in the US would ever see a SCART connector, it's not something our TVs ever used. I know I sure hadn't until I went down the rabbit hole! :D

Component is really close in quality, and the color of the cables causes the RGB confusion a lot, but it is the kind of thing that could mess you up if you were doing a google search for cables or something. Better to use the right terminology.
 

Napoleon IV

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Using that one you have to wire up to a DB15 port yourself or directly to the target somehow.

The UD-DB15 has one input port for your USB stick and then it just plugs into the DB15 port on the Supergun.
Gotcha. I suppose I'll just wait for the external one, then.
So just as a point of clarification, it's very unlikely the CRT supports RGB, what you most likely saw was component input. Which confusingly uses red, blue, and green cables. And will look great, and is a good option to have. But isn't, strictly speaking, RGB.

It's actually YPbPr. And really only giant nerds will care about the difference, the quality is fine, but it's good to know what it really is so when you're looking for cables or asking questions you're using the right terminology and not ending up with the wrong thing or getting confused. Just look for component cables for your supergun and you'll be set.
I see, sorry about the terminology confusion. It did have red, blue and green ports, which is why I thought it was RGB, but now that you mention it I do remember seeing "Component" written above those ports and being a little confused- it makes sense now.
 
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