- Thread starter thereal astro_zombie138
- Start date
For Sale
astro_zombie138
Champion
You have to use the the sign in on that page at the top then access the settings there.
Freaked me out too.
Freaked me out too.
Got it, now I remember I had to do that last time. I thought they fixed the link, thanks.
astro_zombie138
Champion
This is probably stupid and way too complicated but would there be a way to introduce a system where the forum could verify paypal accounts and associate that account with users? Maybe some form of database that could be checked by the end user before making a purchase from someone. Input the given account and it verifies or denies the association not access a list or anything.
ShllShockArcade
Enthusiast
Same! Had no idea two step was an option or even a necessity here. Very sorry this happened to astro and others but glad we all learned from this
9999 Damage
Professional
Someone took control of your KLOV account just to taunt DarkSoft? Was it TerraOnion?
There is also a Discord scam making the rounds: https://x.com/PirateSoftware/status/1753391288924422348
Be safe out there.
Be safe out there.
bagheera369
Champion
Or Finn? Not attacking or assuming, just thinking of folks who've had seroious beef for APSomeone took control of your KLOV account just to taunt DarkSoft? Was it TerraOnion?
kazuo
Champion
That change was supposed to go through last year, but was delayed until 2024. That's part of why you saw a sudden increase of US Americans asking for F&F.
My preference would be that there is no explicit ban on F&F; if a buyer isn't willing to pay through F&F, I'm sure some (many? most?) sellers would be cool with G&S as long as fees get paid. Otherwise, I could see scenarios where some sellers based in the US might charge more due to tax obligations.
Complicated issue. I don't expect everyone to agree, but perhaps any strong feelings on either end of the story should be moved to a different thread.
haveibeenpwned.com. This was (probably) a targeted attack, where the scammers had been doing recon on active sales threads and trying to see if they could pop any matching accounts by doing lookups on the d a r k w e b. There are websites where you can literally pay a few bucks to do lookups if you have an identifier (e.g. email, username).
Yeah, it's definitely a tough sell since PayPal doesn't offer recourse for purchase disputes if you use F&F. That said, if you want any chance of anything getting done, particularly on the bank's end, I'd err on the side of doing too much and just file a police report. Many departments let you do it online, and it (hopefully) shouldn't cost you anything.
My preference would be that there is no explicit ban on F&F; if a buyer isn't willing to pay through F&F, I'm sure some (many? most?) sellers would be cool with G&S as long as fees get paid. Otherwise, I could see scenarios where some sellers based in the US might charge more due to tax obligations.
Complicated issue. I don't expect everyone to agree, but perhaps any strong feelings on either end of the story should be moved to a different thread.
haveibeenpwned.com. This was (probably) a targeted attack, where the scammers had been doing recon on active sales threads and trying to see if they could pop any matching accounts by doing lookups on the d a r k w e b. There are websites where you can literally pay a few bucks to do lookups if you have an identifier (e.g. email, username).
Yeah, it's definitely a tough sell since PayPal doesn't offer recourse for purchase disputes if you use F&F. That said, if you want any chance of anything getting done, particularly on the bank's end, I'd err on the side of doing too much and just file a police report. Many departments let you do it online, and it (hopefully) shouldn't cost you anything.
Sp33dFr34k
Champion
Damn, sorry this happened to you guys...
Friendly advice, use a password manager and generate random passwords. Never use the same password twice. Don't connect to fishy free wifi hotspots, also goes for hotels and stuff. You never know who's watching... also make sure to only login to https websites obviously, with a valid certificate (chrome for example will complain if you visit an insecure website). Also 2FA/MFA is definitely a plus, didn't know it was implemented here on AP, so thanks for the tip.
Friendly advice, use a password manager and generate random passwords. Never use the same password twice. Don't connect to fishy free wifi hotspots, also goes for hotels and stuff. You never know who's watching... also make sure to only login to https websites obviously, with a valid certificate (chrome for example will complain if you visit an insecure website). Also 2FA/MFA is definitely a plus, didn't know it was implemented here on AP, so thanks for the tip.
astro_zombie138
Champion
I've taken the suggestions and have been slowly migrating everything into Bitwarden with generated passwords since yesterday. Honestly it's giving me more piece of mind, thank you everyone. I am doing what I can to prevent future issues like this and really appreciate the community as a whole. This entire situation made me feel sick and I took it to heart. This whole situation is very serious and disgusting. Since my account was the first target I just want everyone to know measures are being taken and I understand the full gravity of the situation. I work hard for what little I have just as you do and some stupid piece of shit trying to take it from any of us is not cool, it's deplorable. I love this site and the user base and wish to be a part of it for the foreseeable future so I really do appreciate the suggestions and kindness from all of you to myself and everyone that was affected. I know it's not the end of the world but I just wanted to express the gravity of it in my mind. Thank you, end sap rant.
Won’t beat the password horse. As a forum manager myself I’ve seen plenty of these reused password incidents though, it’s common. Definitely don’t blame Arcade Projects for it.
It’s usually low effort spam, this was more sophisticated.
Regardless, my only other thought is this: just build the fees into your price and move on with it. We should have ducked F&F years ago.
I only take goods and services when I sell. I pay the fees, it’s just a cost of doing business.
But set your price to factor it and it’s not an issue.
It’s usually low effort spam, this was more sophisticated.
Regardless, my only other thought is this: just build the fees into your price and move on with it. We should have ducked F&F years ago.
I only take goods and services when I sell. I pay the fees, it’s just a cost of doing business.
But set your price to factor it and it’s not an issue.
Well, definitely it looks to me like the goal was to attack this community and show that we don't care for each other and we would just ignore whatever damage was done. If that was their goal, they miserably failed.Someone took control of your KLOV account just to taunt DarkSoft? Was it TerraOnion?
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Mageta the Lion
Student
Just for protocol, a vpn does actual jack shit in cases like this. Your traffic is basically always securely encrypted with httpS (unless you intentionally don't use it) so the owner of the WiFi has no clue what Data you send or receive from a server. All you’re doing by using a vpn in those cases is hiding with whom you communicate. Essentially the only time when https is not enough is when:
A. Your device has been compromised
or
B. It isn’t your device to begin with (don’t use work devices for private stuff, they can and doe break https security)
But in both cases using a vpn won’t save you either and honestly your fighting a lost battle regarding security then anyway.
VPN’s have use cases, for example getting past Geo-blocking or hiding your activity from the State and other big players (regarding with “whom” you communicate) but the so called security they try to sell you in those countless YouTube ads is total bogus.
bagheera369
Champion
Because of tax implications in the US, and potential scammers.....I ask for F&F specifically....but I will also hand you my list of references, the list of other forums I'm on (I maintain the same ID everywhere), take detailed pictures, video of shit working with a date/name card, and answer anything and everything possible, while keeping communication steady on exactly when you get the tracking number.
Issues past that are sorted cleanly, and if the situation should get contentious, I keep logs, receipts, etc....and will ask for mediation from the forum, or a mutually accepted third party, without resorting to petty bullshit.
I've spent 10+ years in the hobby, sold tons of parts and cabs, and not had a single negative feedback, from either buyer or seller.
I also always try to give praise to good buyers and sellers where it's due.
That either counts for something, or you can buy from someone else...no sweat off my back.
That being said, I have absolutely pushed for G&S + Fees, or decided against a purchase, when the seller has zero feedback, is new, has poor communication, or no presence anywhere else, simply to protect myself.
Scammers suck....be careful....ask questions....anything too good to be true, usually is.
I only accept F&F unless the buyer literally has no other option.
If you're going to accept business payments and the pain associated with them, then that means full insurance on packages, with all the misery that brings for recipients (most EU will simply go elsewhere). You have to, to protect yourself from the postal system and buyers who have their PSU set to 12v, claim it didn't arrive even though tracking says it did, or stick boards in the dishwasher (all three genuinely happened to me).
If you're going to accept business payments and the pain associated with them, then that means full insurance on packages, with all the misery that brings for recipients (most EU will simply go elsewhere). You have to, to protect yourself from the postal system and buyers who have their PSU set to 12v, claim it didn't arrive even though tracking says it did, or stick boards in the dishwasher (all three genuinely happened to me).
I'm going to go against the grain and ruffle some feathers here and say that using Goods and Services is not the end all be all here.
This hobby deals with very finicky equipment that nobody outside this hobby deals with or knows anything about. Goods and Services protect the buyer, but not necessarily the seller. This entire community is built on a level of mutual trust and reputation means everything. I'm not going to say names, but somebody on this thread calling others stupid for sending Friends and Family to people certainly had no problem sending me over $2000 via Friends and Family despite having never dealt with me ever. Funny. Take with that whatever you want.
If we don't care about trust and reputation then we might as well just sell all our stuff on eBay.
"Joko what the fuck are you talking about???" you ask? Let me give an example of something that happened when I did the proxy services, and how a bad actor could have made me have a bad day.
Below is a video of a 100% working CPS3 Third Strike ON BATTERY that I bought for somebody on this forum. They paid me the exact money I needed to purchase it via Friends and Family (let's say the equivalent of $850 for easy math later). After testing, packing, and shipping the additional charges came to $150; $100 to ship and $50 for time involved in communication, purchasing, testing, finding a box, packing, taking down to the post, etc (at least 3-4 hours total).
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zjc9wh47VDM
and here is how I packed it (for those who have never dealt with me)
What happened next? Well, turns out that the 25-year-old battery didn't dig the trip from Japan to the middle of the US in the middle of summer, and it died on the way. It didn't explode but died nonetheless. Luckily, the buyer was cool about it and was a player, not a shelf queen. As soon as I and other people on the forum helped him diagnose that the game wasn't working because of the dead battery, he simply made a Darksoft Multi out of everything. Luckily, this was a buyer whose friend group I had two interactions with already finding CPS3 kits for them. They use all three at their local meetup.
Now, how could this have gone bad for me? Let's say the guy was a shelf queen and not a very active member (so he doesn't care about reputation). Had he paid Goods and Services he could have filed a claim with Paypal in which case I almost guarantee they would have sided with him. My video evidence of the game working and packing pictures would have likely meant fuck all to them as my multiple bad experiences via eBay have shown me. Seeing how the package was not damaged there is almost no chance of shipping insurance paying out anything.
If PayPal sided with him I would be:
-$850 for a game I never even owned
-$100 for shipping
= $950
Remember, this is a game I never even owned. I would be screwed if the buyer refused to be an adult about the situation.
I would also lose out on the $50 I would have earned for doing the work, not to mention wasting 3-4 hours of my time.
What I don't know is if PayPal would make them ship the game back or not, but I'm guessing not. Let's say yes though. The dude could easily just ship it back in a box with no padding because fuck it, it "didn't work" anyway right?
Let's change the situation and say that it was an item that I spent $600 on a few years back. I'd still be out the $600 plus $100 shipping because the buyer didn't accept the possible risk of the battery dying. However, if this did happen if it was my item, I would have offered a full refund upon safe return of it in the same packing I shipped it in. Alternatively, I also would have offered to pay for two-way shipping of the cart to somebody to turn it into a multi; it's money out of my pocket still to do this, but I believe it would be the right thing to do. However, with the proxy service, I outlined all the risks involved clearly in my terms and conditions, and with very few exceptions everybody who dealt with me had a positive experience. I helped the buyer diagnose the issue and guided them to the solution.
In conclusion, I'm not saying that Goods and Services are bad, but it does have their bad side that people can take advantage of just like Friends and Family. We need to treat this hack as an isolated incident and decide which payment system to use in the future on a case-by-case basis. Selling a $1000 item to somebody on an internet forum can be just as risky as buying it.
Don't rush into transactions you aren't sure about and always be prepared to take a risk. This isn't a store and in no way should it be treated as such.
This hobby deals with very finicky equipment that nobody outside this hobby deals with or knows anything about. Goods and Services protect the buyer, but not necessarily the seller. This entire community is built on a level of mutual trust and reputation means everything. I'm not going to say names, but somebody on this thread calling others stupid for sending Friends and Family to people certainly had no problem sending me over $2000 via Friends and Family despite having never dealt with me ever. Funny. Take with that whatever you want.
If we don't care about trust and reputation then we might as well just sell all our stuff on eBay.
"Joko what the fuck are you talking about???" you ask? Let me give an example of something that happened when I did the proxy services, and how a bad actor could have made me have a bad day.
Below is a video of a 100% working CPS3 Third Strike ON BATTERY that I bought for somebody on this forum. They paid me the exact money I needed to purchase it via Friends and Family (let's say the equivalent of $850 for easy math later). After testing, packing, and shipping the additional charges came to $150; $100 to ship and $50 for time involved in communication, purchasing, testing, finding a box, packing, taking down to the post, etc (at least 3-4 hours total).
and here is how I packed it (for those who have never dealt with me)
What happened next? Well, turns out that the 25-year-old battery didn't dig the trip from Japan to the middle of the US in the middle of summer, and it died on the way. It didn't explode but died nonetheless. Luckily, the buyer was cool about it and was a player, not a shelf queen. As soon as I and other people on the forum helped him diagnose that the game wasn't working because of the dead battery, he simply made a Darksoft Multi out of everything. Luckily, this was a buyer whose friend group I had two interactions with already finding CPS3 kits for them. They use all three at their local meetup.
Now, how could this have gone bad for me? Let's say the guy was a shelf queen and not a very active member (so he doesn't care about reputation). Had he paid Goods and Services he could have filed a claim with Paypal in which case I almost guarantee they would have sided with him. My video evidence of the game working and packing pictures would have likely meant fuck all to them as my multiple bad experiences via eBay have shown me. Seeing how the package was not damaged there is almost no chance of shipping insurance paying out anything.
If PayPal sided with him I would be:
-$850 for a game I never even owned
-$100 for shipping
= $950
Remember, this is a game I never even owned. I would be screwed if the buyer refused to be an adult about the situation.
I would also lose out on the $50 I would have earned for doing the work, not to mention wasting 3-4 hours of my time.
What I don't know is if PayPal would make them ship the game back or not, but I'm guessing not. Let's say yes though. The dude could easily just ship it back in a box with no padding because fuck it, it "didn't work" anyway right?
Let's change the situation and say that it was an item that I spent $600 on a few years back. I'd still be out the $600 plus $100 shipping because the buyer didn't accept the possible risk of the battery dying. However, if this did happen if it was my item, I would have offered a full refund upon safe return of it in the same packing I shipped it in. Alternatively, I also would have offered to pay for two-way shipping of the cart to somebody to turn it into a multi; it's money out of my pocket still to do this, but I believe it would be the right thing to do. However, with the proxy service, I outlined all the risks involved clearly in my terms and conditions, and with very few exceptions everybody who dealt with me had a positive experience. I helped the buyer diagnose the issue and guided them to the solution.
In conclusion, I'm not saying that Goods and Services are bad, but it does have their bad side that people can take advantage of just like Friends and Family. We need to treat this hack as an isolated incident and decide which payment system to use in the future on a case-by-case basis. Selling a $1000 item to somebody on an internet forum can be just as risky as buying it.
Don't rush into transactions you aren't sure about and always be prepared to take a risk. This isn't a store and in no way should it be treated as such.
To add to the above, yes. Just like ebay, paypal will side with a buyer every time. You basically have zero protection as a seller.
It's a risk all businesses have to absorb, but we are not businesses - most people selling things are doing so just as part of collection changes, the money in many cases isn't just "a lot", it can be their entire expendable income, sometimes more. It's a reason I don't sell any arcade stuff on ebay at all anymore, you have to vet the buyer to some extent - make sure they seem above board and knowledgeable.
It's a risk all businesses have to absorb, but we are not businesses - most people selling things are doing so just as part of collection changes, the money in many cases isn't just "a lot", it can be their entire expendable income, sometimes more. It's a reason I don't sell any arcade stuff on ebay at all anymore, you have to vet the buyer to some extent - make sure they seem above board and knowledgeable.
