Starting a UMK3 arcade console supergun

    This site uses cookies. By continuing to browse this site, you are agreeing to our Cookie Policy.

    • Starting a UMK3 arcade console supergun

      hey all. I'm working with the guys over at Brookyln Video Games to build a consolized UMK3 board. I tried this project back in 2011 but the guy disappeared on me after making significant headway.

      So far I have an OSSC for video, Minigun supergun, undamned adapters, ordered some extra 4mbit and 8 mbit eproms (additional roms are for hacking/burning involved), im picking up a umk3 board from my friend's arcade, and I need a PSU but I'm stuck there.

      I dont know a whole lot about hardware and power, but I have some numbers and suggestions. I was told to keep it small for a console i should get Pico PSU but I have little idea what I should get. The minigun uses what looks like a molex connector, but I'm not sure what would do the trick for everything.

      The original power specs I was given for a normal arcade cabinet are
      16A Arcade Switching Power Supply - 133 Watt, 110-220V
      But i assume this includes powering CRT as well?
      Another person said anything that does +5, -5 +12 should be fine. I only sort of know what that means.

      Other than that I know I need a case, and Brooklyn games suggested doing am acrylic.

      Any help would be appreciated, anything I'm missing, nuances, problematic issues, etc.

      Thanks!
    • Welcome! Sounds like a fun project. Just a few free-form thoughts, take 'em or leave 'em.

      What's your video desire? MK's run at awfully difficult resolutions. MAME just showed me UMK3 does 400x254 at 54.706840hz. That's not great for scaling, and lousy for most LCD's to try to lock onto. You'll need to solve this by either a) using a CRT, b) being very careful to select a tested LCD, or c) stabilizing the image to 60hz using a number of options.

      UMK3 is not a small pcb, so saving space with a small power supply seems weird to me. I'm sure folks will chime in with small psu's if they've tried them with this board, but I'd go with a happ: ebay.com/p/1331409792. Regardless of the PSU you choose, you can make your own harness (or get one made) that will connect the psu to the minigun. I can probably help as can others, so lmk which minigun revision you're using and I can see if I have some spare parts. I don't have any pico connectors but I do have the stuff to wire a minigun to fork terminals on that happ.

      5v is the main draw for the board, I will get a multimeter and check but 15a on 5v is plenty. MK2 drew on the higher end, and I’d expect MK3 to also, but rounding up it’s only 3a on 5v: wiki.arcadeotaku.com/w/PCB_Power_Consumption

      I'm sure you know but mortalkombatplus.com/games/ultimate-mk3
      multis: cps* ttx1/2 gnet f3 mvs sega st-v/16b/24/c2/naomi(netboot) sys2x6 m72
      cabs: sega blast city x2 | taito vewlix c + egret ii
      links: klov/vaps games list | custom fight sticks
      projects: re2 stuff, back to conversions

      The post was edited 4 times, last by ekorz ().

    • If you use a CRT you don't need the OSSC.

      OSSC is a digital output scaler best suited for LCD/OLED displays.

      CRTs will have the greatest tolerance of the wacky low sync produced by Midway Units, but Sony Wegas are known to be problematic.

      Only free sync/wide range sync (50-240hz) supporting LCD will sync/lock a Midway PCB.
      The alternative is adding the iScan DVDO for it's frame buffer feature to support any/all capture cards and monitors (60hz lock) but this comes at the price of lag.
      Darksoft: CPS3, CPS2, F3, MVS
      RGB: RECO v2, HAS v3
      invzim: Jammafier v1.6b
      XianXi: JNX Raiden, SC Taito Classic, SC Sega System 16/24
      Frank_fjs: JAMMA Extender (Special Edition)
    • Not as technical as these two, and they've already mentioned it, but I feel like you're going to go through all of the effort of playing on original hardware you should ditch the OSSC anyways. These games weren't made for modern displays, and if you want convenience then you wouldn't have put in the money/work to get to this point. Plus the game would look amazing on a crt/pvm anyways

      Also, nice seeing you on this forum. I would watch your UMK3 match videos years ago, glad you're trying to keep it alive!
    • GuileWinQuote wrote:

      These games weren't made for modern displays
      You are thinking about this backwards...
      It's not the games that "weren't made for modern displays" its the modern displays that were not made to properly handle these games.

      OSSC only adds 1~2ms of lag, its really a fantastic scaler the best I've ever used in fact.
      Yes he should drop it if CRT is what he really wants... but I love how you CRT guys rave about 'em like they have no negatives whatsoever.

      How about the fact that the biggest L5 PVM/BVM you can buy is 20"...
      20 fucking inches!?! My grandmothers dick is bigger than that.
      Can you get other larger models, yea but not in the L5 series...
      What's so special about L5? Its a multi/universal sync, displays everything from 240p to 1080i (only two formats it won't process is 1080p and 4k).

      You guys buying PVMs for astronomical prices (400$+) that can only do 15khz (240p and 480i) I think are pure retarded!
      You can get 27" component input TVs for free all day around here on Craigslist... That's all you need buy is a SCART to component adapter (it costs 40$).
      The quality is very very comparable here, so much so I say you can't justify the price of 15khz only PVMs in today's marketplace. :thumbdown:

      This is my MK2 setup on my desktop (HAS, OSSC, 27" BenQ, Sonos Play 5, JNX Raiden, custom Madcatz/TvC joystick)...


      And here my MK1 setup (basically the same) in my living room (HAS, OSSC, iScan DVDO VP30, 55" LG OLED, Sonos Playbar, JNX Raiden, custom Madcatz/TvC joystick)...




      Just Johnny Cage here on my LG 55" is bigger than the entire fucking display on a 20" BVM. :whistling:
      Highflow.nl plexi's on my PCBs to consolidate/keep 'em protected...
      Darksoft: CPS3, CPS2, F3, MVS
      RGB: RECO v2, HAS v3
      invzim: Jammafier v1.6b
      XianXi: JNX Raiden, SC Taito Classic, SC Sega System 16/24
      Frank_fjs: JAMMA Extender (Special Edition)

      The post was edited 8 times, last by jassin000 ().

    • I never said a pvm is a must, I mentioned it alongside a crt. Also, he is a tournament player, most likely going to bring this setup to tournaments, he wouldn't be using anything most likely bigger than 24"-27" anyways because he'd be playing on a monitor.
      Not to mention, much of the classic fighting game community (fgc) is crt or nothing. I'm not sure how the classic MK scene is, but you are not going to see a 3rd Strike or Super Turbo setup at a major with an ossc.
      As someone who plays nothing but fighting games, I wouldn't want to be playing on something that big anyways.
      I understand it's a consolized project and he wants to make things as simple as possible, but I just threw in my two cents. I personally don't care for OSSCs or the look older games have on modern displays.
      That is all :whistling:
    • Oh look, a conversation about CRTs with jassin, this will be informative and full of useful and new information, and is definitely worth derailing the entire thread to engage over.

      UMKShock, if you're working with Brooklyn Video Games just have them get you in touch with Cruz. He can sort out any issues you have, including getting your OSSC timings down if you choose to go that route.
    • ekorz wrote:

      What's your video desire? MK's run at awfully difficult resolutions. MAME just showed me UMK3 does 400x254 at 54.706840hz.


      UMK3 is not a small pcb, so saving space with a small power supply seems weird to me. I'm sure folks will chime in with small psu's if they've tried them with this board, but I'd go with a happ: ebay.com/p/1331409792. Regardless of the PSU you choose, you can make your own harness (or get one made) that will connect the psu to the minigun. I can probably help as can others, so lmk which minigun revision you're using and I can see if I have some spare parts. I don't have any pico connectors but I do have the stuff to wire a minigun to fork terminals on that happ.

      5v is the main draw for the board, I will get a multimeter and check but 15a on 5v is plenty. MK2 drew on the higher end, and I’d expect MK3 to also, but rounding up it’s only 3a on 5v: wiki.arcadeotaku.com/w/PCB_Power_Consumption

      I'm sure you know but mortalkombatplus.com/games/ultimate-mk3
      The main purpose for this project is to create a reliable, portable standard using original hardware to bring to events without the need for a CRT, and possibly spread around more to the pockets of old school MK players who still attend events, as every now and then we have a bit of a revival. Right now there is, and I've been on the rollercoaster for close to 20 years. I'm very much aware of the issues with MK's refresh rate and sync issues when trying to output to a normal video destination, and have worked with Arturo at BVG to resolve this. He has the proper timings for the OSSC, which is what I would use to convert the signal to HDMI and split from there, as I also stream for many big Fighting Game Community (FGC) events. I think this is a better, "go ham" solution than running through mame, as we have for over 15 years now. We've literally just settled for mame and I've wanted to do this for years. Only now with the Undamned adapters is it a completely viable solution as most people use controllers compatible with the big 4 consoles. Hopefully there's a more generic option to be compatible with the random controllers people pop up with, in that case we have to use mame regardless.

      I may eventually want to do a CRT version of this on a cabinet, and I have been advised to look into ordering the NAC Splitfire. That's for another conversation.

      The minigun I have is the Advanced 1.7

      And yes, I am directly affiliated with the MKPlus team as sort of a silent adviser and bug tester you could say, but I don't do any meaningful hacking myself nor am I in any way part of the official team. I'm friends with 3 people who have/do hack the arcade roms and we're working on some AMAZING, absolutely groundbreaking mods.

      I appreciate any help you can provide and I will see if that power supply will do the trick.

      jassin000 wrote:

      This is my MK2 setup on my desktop (HAS, OSSC, 27" BenQ, Sonos Play 5, JNX Raiden, custom Madcatz/TvC joystick)...
      This looks absolutely gorgeous and along the lines of what I want to do.

      jassin000 wrote:

      If you use a CRT you don't need the OSSC.

      OSSC is a digital output scaler best suited for LCD/OLED displays.

      CRTs will have the greatest tolerance of the wacky low sync produced by Midway Units, but Sony Wegas are known to be problematic.

      Only free sync/wide range sync (50-240hz) supporting LCD will sync/lock a Midway PCB.
      The alternative is adding the iScan DVDO for it's frame buffer feature to support any/all capture cards and monitors (60hz lock) but this comes at the price of lag.
      Good stuff! I'm specifically going with LCD for now for keeping this as minimal as possible. CRT might be possible down the line but the main goal is to make a console I can bring to events, people can plug and play on real hardware. I have sat people down at a cabinet who have only ever played on mame or the mostly poorly emulated console ports with supergun and a PS2 pad and their world comes crumbling down because they have never played it without the crumminess of mame input or console lag. Literally every time the response is "this was the best I've ever felt the game play" which is a no brainer for us, but earth shattering to those who don't. Mame has very odd behavior depending what types of controllers are plugged in, input drops, etc. It has gotten us by for a very long time, but I just want to try this and am not really concerned with how much the first run will cost.

      GuileWinQuote wrote:

      Not as technical as these two, and they've already mentioned it, but I feel like you're going to go through all of the effort of playing on original hardware you should ditch the OSSC anyways. These games weren't made for modern displays, and if you want convenience then you wouldn't have put in the money/work to get to this point. Plus the game would look amazing on a crt/pvm anyways

      Also, nice seeing you on this forum. I would watch your UMK3 match videos years ago, glad you're trying to keep it alive!
      Thanks man, I appreciate the appreciation! heh As for the whole CRT thing, I do prefer to play on original arcade hardware with a CRT, no question, but the OSSC will make this very easy, adding minimal ms to it.

      Aurich wrote:

      UMKShock, if you're working with Brooklyn Video Games just have them get you in touch with Cruz. He can sort out any issues you have, including getting your OSSC timings down if you choose to go that route.
      Cruz and I have been working on various things since Feb for RGB modding and what not, just finding out the best options for this project but I'm finally ready to dive in and would like something done by the next big event we have since I'm running and streaming exclusively old school MK stuff.
    • So after looking through a bit more closely, my best request would be is if you give up your secret recipe and I can modify whatever I need to, and poof. Any model numbers for this stuff would be super helpful. To reiterate my current inventory:

      OSSC
      Undamned Adapters
      Minigun
      Extra eproms for hacks
      Pending UMK3 board

      Need:
      Power
      Acrylic casing
      Anything I might be unaware of

      Thanks!
    • Aurich wrote:

      Oh look, a conversation about CRTs with jassin, this will be informative and full of useful and new information, and is definitely worth derailing the entire thread to engage over.
      Heh, I hear ya... But in this case my opinions are actually relevant to the subject of the thread, so no I'm not derailing it with "useful and new information".
      Also worth pointing out, it would be both "useful and new information" if you didn't already know these things... Being that @UMKShock is new, maybe this is the case for him?

      You know I like you @Aurich and I agree that my posting repeatedly to the HAS thread was both unnecessary/unneeded (I've stopped BTW if you didn't notice).
      This statement from you tho is just coming off like someone who is personally offended by the things I've had to say about CRTs.
      We have a word for that, its called Fanboy. Keep it about the facts, @GuileWinQuote did this perfectly by stating the issues I outlined aren't really issues in the FGC.
      Not accusing me of derailment (because I didn't) or presenting "useful and new information" (you know you are just being a dick with this one, I still chuckled tho).
      Darksoft: CPS3, CPS2, F3, MVS
      RGB: RECO v2, HAS v3
      invzim: Jammafier v1.6b
      XianXi: JNX Raiden, SC Taito Classic, SC Sega System 16/24
      Frank_fjs: JAMMA Extender (Special Edition)

      The post was edited 2 times, last by jassin000 ().

    • UMKShock wrote:

      Cruz and I have been working on various things since Feb for RGB modding and what not, just finding out the best options for this project but I'm finally ready to dive in and would like something done by the next big event we have since I'm running and streaming exclusively old school MK stuff.
      I saw you mention you've got Art helping you too, you're in good hands then.
    • jassin000 wrote:

      This statement from you tho is just coming off like someone who is personally offended by the things I've had to say about CRTs.
      I'm definitely not offended, it's just that we've all had this conversation over and over, people have their sides, and there's nothing new or interesting about watching people rehash it. I'm not telling you to shut up, I'm saying maybe we shouldn't engage in it all over again.

      UMKShock wants to use OSSC and LCDs for this, because it's the use case that makes sense for the project, and that should really be the final word. Nobody's preferences or emotional choices really come into play once that's been stated.
    • Aurich wrote:

      jassin000 wrote:

      This statement from you tho is just coming off like someone who is personally offended by the things I've had to say about CRTs.
      I'm definitely not offended, it's just that we've all had this conversation over and over, people have their sides, and there's nothing new or interesting about watching people rehash it. I'm not telling you to shut up, I'm saying maybe we shouldn't engage in it all over again.
      UMKShock wants to use OSSC and LCDs for this, because it's the use case that makes sense for the project, and that should really be the final word. Nobody's preferences or emotional choices really come into play once that's been stated.
      yeah it's all good, LCDs are for events but I may do another project with a CRT, I'll definitely be in and out here a bit.
    • Aurich wrote:

      I'm not telling you to shut up, I'm saying maybe we shouldn't engage in it all over again.
      Even if you are, you're still cool in my book man (yea I can be a dick sometimes, its OK to call me out once in a while). ;)
      Darksoft: CPS3, CPS2, F3, MVS
      RGB: RECO v2, HAS v3
      invzim: Jammafier v1.6b
      XianXi: JNX Raiden, SC Taito Classic, SC Sega System 16/24
      Frank_fjs: JAMMA Extender (Special Edition)
    • UMKShock wrote:

      I'm very much aware of the issues with MK's refresh rate and sync issues when trying to output to a normal video destination, and have worked with Arturo at BVG to resolve this. He has the proper timings for the OSSC, which is what I would use to convert the signal to HDMI and split from there
      What's Arturo's magic? OSSC timings are not the full story. Getting it to HDMI to split for streaming is one part, but whoever is playing still needs the monitor working as close-to-crt as possible, for an optimal gaming experience. I think the options are basically to a) adjust the signal with a device, such as the iScan DVDO, or b) carry around a freesync/gsync monitor that can handle 54hz

      I'd go with b, since it gets gameplay perfect, even though it restricts you to bringing a monitor with you. Sycning to 60hz will give you smooth gameplay and 100% compatibility with all flat-screens but you'll drop frames. But hey it's your call! And @jassin000 can tell you which one he prefers I bet, since he's running both!

      There's also literally modding the board so it runs at 60hz but imo that's a no-no for competitive play as you've changed the game timing.
      multis: cps* ttx1/2 gnet f3 mvs sega st-v/16b/24/c2/naomi(netboot) sys2x6 m72
      cabs: sega blast city x2 | taito vewlix c + egret ii
      links: klov/vaps games list | custom fight sticks
      projects: re2 stuff, back to conversions
    • ekorz wrote:

      UMKShock wrote:

      I'm very much aware of the issues with MK's refresh rate and sync issues when trying to output to a normal video destination, and have worked with Arturo at BVG to resolve this. He has the proper timings for the OSSC, which is what I would use to convert the signal to HDMI and split from there
      What's Arturo's magic? OSSC timings are not the full story. Getting it to HDMI to split for streaming is one part, but whoever is playing still needs the monitor working as close-to-crt as possible, for an optimal gaming experience. I think the options are basically to a) adjust the signal with a device, such as the iScan DVDO, or b) carry around a freesync/gsync monitor that can handle 54hz
      I'd go with b, since it gets gameplay perfect, even though it restricts you to bringing a monitor with you. Sycning to 60hz will give you smooth gameplay and 100% compatibility with all flat-screens but you'll drop frames. But hey it's your call! And @jassin000 can tell you which one he prefers I bet, since he's running both!

      There's also literally modding the board so it runs at 60hz but imo that's a no-no for competitive play as you've changed the game timing.
      I will get more info from him, the only other thing he's ever mentioned is the Splitfire but I've been told that's only if you're using a CRT. We've been doing LCDs with mame for a generation now so anything that improves the input lag would be great. I'm also hoping that coming here will reveal any of the nuances I'm unfamiliar with.
    • That'll get you a good scaled image, but not effect the sync rate in any way. In other words, run that into a BenQ freesync monitor and you're golden. But a normal everyday LCD will not be able to sync with it still.
      multis: cps* ttx1/2 gnet f3 mvs sega st-v/16b/24/c2/naomi(netboot) sys2x6 m72
      cabs: sega blast city x2 | taito vewlix c + egret ii
      links: klov/vaps games list | custom fight sticks
      projects: re2 stuff, back to conversions
    • ekorz wrote:

      That'll get you a good scaled image, but not effect the sync rate in any way. In other words, run that into a BenQ freesync monitor and you're golden. But a normal everyday LCD will not be able to sync with it still.
      According to Arturo that is on a standard Acer. He did a lot of trial and error but I think as long as I'm just doing LCDs this will be fine.