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tiff_lee

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Ok so as per title how do light guns work on games that use a rear projection screen? Is it the same as if it were a regular CRT?

For example House of the Dead, Time Crisis, Crisis Zone etc (supposed to a new modern LCD/LED based shooter)

cheers, Lee
 
+1
I’ve always wanted to know as well.

I thought some Deluxe games like Time Crisis 3 used a camera. But I’m just pulling stuff out of my butt.
 
I reply only for Sega games. Don't know others.
Old games use direct sensing (HoD, VC1 & 2), games from Jurassic Park Lost World until now use 12 (only JPLW) or 10 (newers) LED emitters.
Games using a rear projection use the exact same system.
So impossible to swap CRT system or tube retroprojection for old games, but very easy for newer games since sensing is not anymore linked to monitor.
 
We have a Vampire Night Deluxe in our arcade and it works in a strange way. The machine is rear projection and have CCD camera mounted in the gun pedestal aimed at the screen. The camera is connected to a I/O board that has a SH4 processor (maybe the same as the Dreamcast) and watches the screen for the IR from the gun and then calculates the location of the shot. Really complex for something simple, shame that this machine is out of action and has been for a while :(
 
Thanks for the info.

Reason I ask the question is I was looking at a Super Megalo 2 amongst various other old school sega games with the deluxe type setup (50" rear projection) and just wondered what the light gun games had extra the others didn't.

Good game selection there LuKa, oh so miss old school arcades like that.
 
I use a Sony 53" projection tv and works fine with guncon 1 and 2 on my ps2.
 
where is the arcade??
Our arcade is called Timewarp Arcade and we are based in Bridgwater, Somerset which is in the South West of England.https://www.facebook.com/TimewarpArcade/
Man! Why do you open such a place so far from here? If you had a bar and many fellows would show up, I'd spend half day there :thumbsup:
Sorry about that lol, I thought you where based in the USA? We would love to sell alcohol but having a licence is expensive also would you want some drunk beating up or throwing up over a arcade machine. If you are ever nearby I'll sort out some free passes for you.
 
I was thinking on a soda or a coke ;) Thanks for the offering :thumbup:
 
Bit of a bump on this.

I was wondering if would it be possible to play older light gun games (Time Crisis 1/2) on genuine arcade hardware (not playstation ports) with a consumer rear projection TV but after some googling I came across this thread

https://www.aussiearcade.com/showth...-crisis-dx-monitor-replacement-is-it-possible

There is a comment from Jomac "if you do find an old RPro monitor it must be usable in standard CGA mode , one with a VGA input is no good , a CGA to VGA converter won't work with the guns."

so i'm just wondering what does this actually mean for a consumer set, is there an easy way to tell is something is CGA compatible or is there anything that could be done to make it compatible?
 
Well, it's the same with regular CRTs. You need a monitor that can display 15khz (CGA). Look for composite and S-Video connectors.
 
Ah Nem, you must be sick of responding to my posts by now! cheers mate.
 
I was wondering if would it be possible to play older light gun games (Time Crisis 1/2) on genuine arcade hardware (not playstation ports) with a consumer rear projection TV but after some googling I came across this thread

aussiearcade.com/showthread.ph…eplacement-is-it-possible

There is a comment from Jomac "if you do find an old RPro monitor it must be usable in standard CGA mode , one with a VGA input is no good , a CGA to VGA converter won't work with the guns."

so i'm just wondering what does this actually mean for a consumer set, is there an easy way to tell is something is CGA compatible or is there anything that could be done to make it compatible?
There is some, I don't want to say bad but... not-quite accurate information earlier in this thread.

Yes Sega Games from Jurassic Park and on use IR sensors for Rear Projection and Vampire Night used the a camera setup, but these don't have anything to do with the fact that they're rear projection setups, and are simply the light gun technology they chose for those games.

-----------

Rear Projection CRTs work with traditional light guns (like those used on Time Crisis 1 and 2) exactly the same way that that normal CRT displays work with original light guns.

However, as was mentioned in the thread you can't convert the video signal and still have it work.

This rule, again is no different between CRT projectors and normal CRT displays: if you convert the video signal then the timing of the original signal is lost and the gun wont function. This has nothing to do with the fact that it's a rear projection display. and everything to do with the fact that CRT guns will only work on an analog display without any video converters between the game board and the display.
 
There is some, I don't want to say bad but... not-quite accurate information earlier in this thread.

Yes Sega Games from Jurassic Park and on use IR sensors for Rear Projection and Vampire Night used the a camera setup, but these don't have anything to do with the fact that they're rear projection setups, and are simply the light gun technology they chose for those games.

-----------

Rear Projection CRTs work with traditional light guns (like those used on Time Crisis 1 and 2) exactly the same way that that normal CRT displays work with original light guns.

However, as was mentioned in the thread you can't convert the video signal and still have it work.

This rule, again is no different between CRT projectors and normal CRT displays: if you convert the video signal then the timing of the original signal is lost and the gun wont function. This has nothing to do with the fact that it's a rear projection display. and everything to do with the fact that CRT guns will only work on an analog display without any video converters between the game board and the display.

Does the conversion include RGB to composite conversions? I don't have a TV that will take RGB from a light gun arcade PCB, so I'm thinking about converting it to composite using JROK or Neobitz adapter. Not sure how fast/slow these adapters are, but there's no DAC, ADC in between as far as I know. Maybe the timing won't be too far off?

*edit* looks like S-video or component will work, but composite won't. :(
 
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Just curious, is there already a system to convert "modern" lightguns for crt lightgun PCBs? I imagine something where you've got a microcontroller listen to the sync pulses that the jamma board sends, and generates a pulse for the lightgun input at the right time when it reached the x/y position found by other means.
 
Does the conversion include RGB to composite conversions?
RGB to Composite can work so long as the sync signal remains unchanged.
So an RGB to Composite "Transcoder" can work, but a Digital "Coverter" cannot.

Just curious, is there already a system to convert "modern" lightguns for crt lightgun PCBs? I imagine something where you've got a microcontroller listen to the sync pulses that the jamma board sends, and generates a pulse for the lightgun input at the right time when it reached the x/y position found by other means.
Not to my knowledge. it's something that's been on my "want to build" list for years though. Ideally it would work exactly as described. read in the sync pulse output from the Game PCB to get current image draw position, get the X / Y Coordinates from the guns (for me, ideally analog to work with Sega IR guns). then send a pulse back when the image draw position matches gun position.
 
Does the conversion include RGB to composite conversions? I don't have a TV that will take RGB from a light gun arcade PCB, so I'm thinking about converting it to composite using JROK or Neobitz adapter. Not sure how fast/slow these adapters are, but there's no DAC, ADC in between as far as I know. Maybe the timing won't be too far off?
*edit* looks like S-video or component will work, but composite won't. :(
The deluxe versions of Time Crisis 1,2,and 3 used a RGB to NTSC converter. It has the same Sony NTSC encoder that the Sony PlayStation uses. I got one of those pcbs and the composite video port was unpopulated. I soldered a port on and it works and the gun registers without any problems with any optical light gun game I have. Any RGB to NTSC converter (S-Video, Composite, YPBPR Component)should work as long as it doesn’t mess with the sync signal.
 
Does the conversion include RGB to composite conversions? I don't have a TV that will take RGB from a light gun arcade PCB, so I'm thinking about converting it to composite using JROK or Neobitz adapter. Not sure how fast/slow these adapters are, but there's no DAC, ADC in between as far as I know. Maybe the timing won't be too far off?

The deluxe versions of Time Crisis 1,2,and 3 used a RGB to NTSC converter. It has the same Sony NTSC encoder that the Sony PlayStation uses. I got one of those pcbs and the composite video port was unpopulated. I soldered a port on and it works and the gun registers without any problems with any optical light gun game I have. Any RGB to NTSC converter (S-Video, Composite, YPBPR Component)should work as long as it doesn’t mess with the sync signal.
RGB to Composite can work so long as the sync signal remains unchanged.
So an RGB to Composite "Transcoder" can work, but a Digital "Coverter" cannot.

I will check to see if JROK or NeoBitz converters muck with the sync signal. If I can even find one to buy. :)

Not to my knowledge. it's something that's been on my "want to build" list for years though. Ideally it would work exactly as described. read in the sync pulse output from the Game PCB to get current image draw position, get the X / Y Coordinates from the guns (for me, ideally analog to work with Sega IR guns). then send a pulse back when the image draw position matches gun position.
Is there anything that is not on your project list? :) So much cool stuff, so little time.
 
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