How do rear projection light gun games work?

[awbacon1]

anecdotally the Crypt Killer pcb I just restored had a secondary PCB for projection cabinets. Took the JAMMA RGBS signal and combined it to composite out. Has one random chip on the pcb.

Not sure if it's essential but at least Konami had a bit of additional hardware involved when it came to CRT vs Projection

 

[twistedsymphony]

A lot of proejction units had video transcoding... because unlike the RGBS capable CRT monitors, most of the Projectors weren't designed for arcade use and needed Componnent or other more consumer oriented input.

Most of the Sega Projection cabs convert RGB to YPbPr over BNC connectors.

I don't know that it makes any meaningful difference to the light gun itself... it's literally just picking up the sync signal.

 

[awbacon1]

A lot of proejction units had video transcoding... because unlike the RGBS capable CRT monitors, most of the Projectors weren't designed for arcade use and needed Componnent or other more consumer oriented input.

Most of the Sega Projection cabs convert RGB to YPbPr over BNC connectors.

I don't know that it makes any meaningful difference to the light gun itself... it's literally just picking up the sync signal.

The thing that confuses me is what the conversion board does. I’ve tried to go RGB to every video signal under the sun for a consumer tv and keep the Konami light guns functioning...zero luck. Gun will not register bullets.

it’s RGB or nothing for Crypt Killer and the M2 light gun games.

so there is some “magic” in this Konami board (I don’t own it. Just have photos and manuals that describe it) that I’m not aware of how to overcome if I wanted to use a 30” CRT tv

 

[Franco23444]

The thing that confuses me is what the conversion board does. I’ve tried to go RGB to every video signal under the sun for a consumer tv and keep the Konami light guns functioning...zero luck. Gun will not register bullets.

it’s RGB or nothing for Crypt Killer and the M2 light gun games.

so there is some “magic” in this Konami board (I don’t own it. Just have photos and manuals that describe it) that I’m not aware of how to overcome if I wanted to use a 30” CRT tv

I have a working crypt killer and the Namco converter I use works fine on consumer crt TVs. I’m using the Namco light gun though as I don’t have a Konami shot gun.

 

[twistedsymphony]

I’ve tried to go RGB to every video signal under the sun for a consumer tv and keep the Konami light guns functioning...zero luck. Gun will not register bullets.

it depends heavily on what TV you're using. Anything Digital even if it's a CRT will muck with the sync signal and render light guns inoperable. Similarly even higher resolution CRTs may have problems if the pitch is too small for the sensor to register.

 

[awbacon1]

I have a working crypt killer and the Namco converter I use works fine on consumer crt TVs. I’m using the Namco light gun though as I don’t have a Konami shot gun.

do you have a model number for the Namco board? I'd love to try it for my Konami M2 stuff

 

[Franco23444]

do you have a model number for the Namco board? I'd love to try it for my Konami M2 stuff

This one is the one I use. Works fine

 

[awbacon1]

This one is the one I use. Works fine

Nice. I’ll pick one up and give it a try. I’d like to get away from using a 14” PVM for my light gun stuff but at least for Total Vice / Evil Night I’ve never had success converting the RGB to anything else and maintaining gun sync to register shots

 

[Pinball]

There is a modern equivalent now for LCD monitors, which I pre-ordered but not received yet:

"The Sinden Lightgun® is the world’s first true LCD compatible Lightgun, providing all the functionality and game experience of the original CRT Lightguns without requiring additional hardware such as infra red sensor bars".

https://www.sindenlightgun.com

 

[Franco23444]

There is a modern equivalent now for LCD monitors, which I pre-ordered but not received yet:

"The Sinden Lightgun® is the world’s first true LCD compatible Lightgun, providing all the functionality and game experience of the original CRT Lightguns without requiring additional hardware such as infra red sensor bars".

https://www.sindenlightgun.com

They don’t work with real arcade hardware yet, unfortunately.

 

[Fluffy]

View: https://youtu.be/hduEzZdm95Y

Yeah, that solves the problem of detecting the position, but you'd need to translate the result into a form that an arcade pcb understands.

Edit: also an interesting problem of adding the reference frame - maybe they can be reconfigured to work with an IR LED strip?

 

[rcboosted]

I think a RaspberryPi that translate/registers the shot to the console is in the works, not sure if it's for arcade pcb too, I'd imagine is the same since it's just sync timing. Looking forward to that being finished. The recoil version looks interesting, but from the videos I've seen, it doesn't seem very strong on the recoil. I will wait for it to be in more hands and see more success stories before jumping in.

 

[Pinball]

I'm hoping to use a Sinden with PC & console games and a video projector & screen. I've seen it used with modern boutique arcade games, but not classic ones, unfortunately.

 

[Hydreigon]

They don’t work with real arcade hardware yet, unfortunately.

I think a RaspberryPi that translate/registers the shot to the console is in the works, not sure if it's for arcade pcb too, I'd imagine is the same since it's just sync timing. Looking forward to that being finished. The recoil version looks interesting, but from the videos I've seen, it doesn't seem very strong on the recoil. I will wait for it to be in more hands and see more success stories before jumping in.

You could use this for JVS based systems in the future because of custom JVS interfaces like OpenJVS used to communicate with actual hardware. No idea how long that would take for Sinden compatibility. @bobbydilley ?

Yeah, that solves the problem of detecting the position, but you'd need to translate the result into a form that an arcade pcb understands.

Not much has been looked into for this situation due to how wonky optical lightgun coding is.

 

[twistedsymphony]

can we please not devolve yet another arcade light gun thread into which home solution people are excited about.

I get it, it looks promising, but it's not the solution for every light gun setup. Some of us are actually interested in using original arcade hardware.

 

[Franco23444]

can we please not devolve yet another arcade light gun thread into which home solution people are excited about.

I get it, it looks promising, but it's not the solution for every light gun setup. Some of us are actually interested in using original arcade hardware.

Well said dude! Well said!

 

[stj]

maybe the solution is a board with x/y counters and comparators on it that is connected between the games video output and an IR type gun.
the gun sends the cordinates to the board, the cordinates are scaled for the game and loaded into the comparators,
and every time the counters match the comparators the gameboard gets triggered.

that's similar to how traditional light pen/gun inputs work anyway,
when the trigger-signal fires the video circuit x/y counters are copied into a set of memory-mapped registers for the cpu to access.

some stuff used/uses a constantly updating set of cordinates with the trigger just being a general input, but the same concept applies.