ATAPI/IDE ODE Testing

[twistedsymphony]

Stating the obvious but you are booting with some dongle right?

yes of course.

In every instance I'm testing the original hardware with the DVD drive, and dongle, confirming it boots and plays, and then replacing the DVD drive with the ODE device...

as I said earlier in the thread, I'm testing one variable at a time

the problem on the 246 is that it's using ATAPI commands that haven't been implement in the device yet, I'm seeing them come through the serial monitor as "unknown". I've given the log to Colin so hopefully he can implement them and get it running.

the problem on the 256 seems to be related to the ribbon cable. it wont boot without the ribbon cable installed. I plan to resolve this by removing the header on the device and replacing it with a ribbon cable connector. I'm pretty sure Colin is planning on doing this for the final design, as the direct plugin design has resulted in more than a few fitment/placement issues.

Interestingly neither device will boot without a substantial load on the molex connector. on both systems I have to leave the power connector attached to the DVD drive otherwise there wont be enough draw on the 5V line of my PSU (NAOMI/JVS SUN) for it to kick on all the way. I have some ceramic resistors on their way so I can make a little resistor dongle that I can plug in.

Very cool stuff! What's the hardware on it, an intel/altera max10?

I'll have to take a closer look. IIRC the BGA chip on the front is an FXP brand, there's another substantial chip on the back that I believe is a Conexant FPGA.

 

[Derick2k]

first test on the 256 is a non-starter. The 256 refuses to boot as if there isn't a drive installed at all.

@brizzo or any other 2x6 experts? any idea what the motherboard is checking for.

I see zero IDE activity on the serial monitor and the blue light in the multi dongle isn't coming on... it does the same with no drive attached, but if I plug in the DVD drive then everything fires right up.

The thing I remember Defor mentioning that any ide emulator would have to support the complete ATAPI command set.

Here's a link to it just for minor reference
https://wiki.osdev.org/ATAPI

Im sure Collin already has this in place/implemented

 

[Derick2k]

the problem on the 256 seems to be related to the ribbon cable.

You think the lines need additional resistance or something to that effect? I dont see what else the cable can do, its supposed to be a straight 1 to 1 connection correct?

 

[twistedsymphony]

The thing I remember Defor mentioning that any IDE emulator would have to support the complete ATAPI command set.

Here's a link to it just for minor reference
wiki.osdev.org/ATAPI

Im sure Collin already has this in place/implemented

IIRC from my conversation with Colin there was 1 command that he didn't implement because it wasn't used by the 573, however it looks like the command that it's failing on is something else altogether... as in not included in that list you linked to.

 

[Derick2k]

The thing I remember Defor mentioning that any IDE emulator would have to support the complete ATAPI command set.

Here's a link to it just for minor reference
wiki.osdev.org/ATAPI

Im sure Collin already has this in place/implemented

IIRC from my conversation with Colin there was 1 command that he didn't implement because it wasn't used by the 573, however it looks like the command that it's failing on is something else altogether... as in not included in that list you linked to.

Jesus this ATAPI stuff seems like a hot mess, found a link to more info related to ATAPI stuff.

https://ata.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/Developer_Resources

 

[twistedsymphony]

You think the lines need additional resistance or something to that effect? I dont see what else the cable can do, its supposed to be a straight 1 to 1 connection correct?

The 2x6 uses a one of those ATA-133 cables. I'd suspect there's a jump or a short somewhere to identify the cable type and if I had to guess, that's what it's looking for. I honestly don't know much about them... either way I'm hoping this is resolved by simply changing the connector and then you can use whatever cable the hardware demands.

Jesus this ATAPI stuff seems like a hot mess, found a link to more info related to ATAPI stuff.

ata.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/Developer_Resources

no kidding, there's probably a reason no one else has done this

scrolling through that link it looks like the problem command falls in the "vendor specific" range... which probably also explains why these things super picky about which drives they work with.

 

[jassin000]

ATAPI has always been a confusing mess to me...
I remember having to replace the atapi.sys/winaspi.dll system files on a Win98 computer with open/hacked versions to support some image ripping/burning back in the day.

 

[twistedsymphony]

Any technical reason these need a custom IDE to flash adapter instead of any number that are readily available?

It's not an IDE to flash it's ATAPI to flash; it needs to support ATAPI commands. I'm not aware of any device on the market that does that. We've had a half dozen or so threads searching for a solution, so if you know of one that is "readily available" then I and many others would love to hear about it.

 

[CoolFox]

How long does that ode take to boot? What if you power it up first, separately, and then turn on the 2x6?

I'm already powering it separately over USB since the molex connector is blocked by the case. I've tried power it on first as well as waiting to power it on after the rest of the system.. no dice. I'm thinking it has something to do with the ribon cable since this device plugs right in in-place of the ribon cable.
I did get my System 246B in today and it appears to boot on that! I've only tested Soul Calibur 3 and it doesn't boot past the region warning. at that point I see a few "unknown" ATAPI commands come through the serial monitor, but I should be able to send these to Colin to have him check it out and fix whatever problem codes are coming through

in the mean time I'm going to remove the female header and install a male header so I can attach it with a ribbon cable and see if that fixing the non-boot issue on 256.

Was gonna say the Konami M2, but that needs a audio connection from the cd drive.

This device does indeed support CD drive audio, as that's needed by many of the DDR games it was built to support.
now the question is where can one acquire a Konami M2? I don't think I've ever seen one for sale.

Oh NICE!! I'll keep an eye on it. I have an M2 as well as many locals here do. I don't think it would be a huge deal to add M2 support as they use the same drives on the 573. (Also the recommended ones for the 573 are the recommended ones for the M2)

 

[rewrite]

I had no idea there were System 12 games that used a Disc Drive. do you have a picture of the hardware setup?

There are also system10 games that use CD-Rom. I have an older Taiko setup kicking around with cd drive.

 

[twistedsymphony]

I don't think it would be a huge deal to add M2 support as they use the same drives on the 573. (Also the recommended ones for the 573 are the recommended ones for the M2)

it may already work just fine with the M2 as-is...

There are also system10 games that use CD-Rom. I have an older Taiko setup kicking around with cd drive.

interesting I thought the Taiko games used a HDD.

 

[rewrite]

interesting I thought the Taiko games used a HDD.

System10 is all Disc.

7-11 on 2x6 are disc.

12 and on are HDD.

If it weren't massive I'd offer to ship it to you for testing, but it's a giant cube. And I don't have some of the special I/O's anyway, so I'm not sure how far you'd get.

 

[twistedsymphony]

If it weren't massive I'd offer to ship it to you for testing, but it's a giant cube. And I don't have some of the special I/O's anyway, so I'm not sure how far you'd get.

Colin is located in CA... so maybe we could get him to test it directly?

They use JVS for the IO right? will it work with a normal JVS IO or does it need a special Taiko IO board?

 

[rewrite]

They use JVS for the IO right? will it work with a normal JVS IO or does it need a special Taiko IO board?

It needs two special IO boards and a filter board.

Namco V260 SIF PCB
Namco V328 Mini-JV PCB
Namco V328 FUTA PCB

Neither of which is available through Namco for either System10 era cabs or 2x6 era cabs. And I haven't seen one pop up on YAJ for ~3 years now. I'd seen one full set back when I bought my NOS drums, but those cost so much to ship I had to pass on the auction, and I've not seen either IO since.

 

[twistedsymphony]

It needs two special IO boards and a filter board.

Namco V260 SIF PCB
Namco V328 Mini-JV PCB
Namco V328 FUTA PCB

you might be able to spoof the JVS IO using the MegaJVS device, I can't find any info on the other PCBs though, so I can't say how difficult they'd be to work around.

do you have all of this stuff or do you just have the PCB with no way to play it?

 

[Derick2k]

Found these but cant get a true spec or operating sheets on it.

Claims to be a true CF to ATAPI adapter

http://www.hsc-us.com/Embedded/CFadapters/ATG_index.htm

Probably discontinued.

 

[jassin000]

Claims to be a true CF to ATAPI adapter

CF?! Meh, even if it "works" whos gives a shit.

 

[rewrite]

you might be able to spoof the JVS IO using the MegaJVS device, I can't find any info on the other PCBs though, so I can't say how difficult they'd be to work around.

do you have all of this stuff or do you just have the PCB with no way to play it?

For System10 I have the filter board, for 256 I only have the 256.

I also have a drum. I'm missing everything between the drum and the motherboard for either system unfortunately. Just been buying up what I can as I see it.

 

[twistedsymphony]

For System10 I have the filter board, for 256 I only have the 256.

looking at this thread: Taiko HW picture dump
The only thing that should be stopping you is the JVS IO, which like I said could potentially be spoofed with the MegaJVS.

The filter-board is just a dumb junction block and the SIF PCB doesn't have much going on either, at most it might need some analog lines terminated or some digital pins shorted.

 

[twistedsymphony]

Found these but cant get a true spec or operating sheets on it.

Claims to be a true CF to ATAPI adapter

hsc-us.com/Embedded/CFadapters/ATG_index.htm

Probably discontinued.

probably discontinued... but also probably $500-$1000 and only works for 1 disc per card.
I'm sure they fully support the spec though, you pay out the nose for industrial products but they're also usually bullet proof.