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PGM single game PCB interest check

Mitsurugi-w said:
acblunden2 said:
Alrighty! Unless Mr @Mitsurugi-w-ave soldering machine guy wants to run the group buy instead so he can further test the functionality of his wave soldering machine
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Are we talking populating everything on the pcb plus sockets or eproms? Option for either?
I would need to know two things:

1) The price of the blanks from Fluffy to me.

2) The price you all want to pay for the populated cart pcbs. Then I can work towards getting it to you at that price.
acblunden2 said:
volunteering
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Scary word! =O
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Yeah, it all comes down to price. After all a conversion cart sells for under $150, with the case obviously. Would these be worth it?
 
Mitsurugi-w said:
acblunden2 said:
volunteering
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Scary word! =O
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Preceeded by the words "Unless" and "graciously" :).

All kidding aside, don't think we need to pull out the wave soldering machine. It is just 15 sockets that need to be installed. Any of us can do that. Certainly would add to the cost. Conversions are right around $150 shipped. Plus the conversions come with the benefit of being in a cart shell, which is HUGE. I'm thinking you are putting a price of close $30 for the wave soldering. Another $20 for the programming. $50 total for your work + cost of EPROM's + the price of the PCB's shipped.

Unless you want to do it and there are others that want that service, probably a good idea to keep this DIY so that it doesn't turn interested folks away from Fluffy's work. As such, I can organize the group US group buy once Fluffy announces pricing.
 
If there are spares going around I would bump my number up to 3 unit and if there are even more spare a possibility of 6 unit total
 
I just got the message that the order is approved and in production. No way back, now. ;)

Just a small thing: The connector is symmetrical (2 PC-XT style slots next to each other), and inserting a pcb the wrong way around will create a short circuit, so getting a cartridge shell is a good investment. There are certain very cheap games that could be a donor for the shell. Of course as soon as someone mentions a name the price for those will go up...

By the way, does anyone know if it is possible to replicate those cartridge shells from silicone molds and resin casts? I assume the walls are too thin. 3D printing would certainly push the cost past an original cartridge.
 
Fluffy said:
By the way, does anyone know if it is possible to replicate those cartridge shells from silicone molds and resin casts? I assume the walls are too thin. 3D printing would certainly push the cost past an original cartridge.
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It would be very labor intense to do castings for these shells.

But if you get creative with 3d printing, perhaps instead of doing the entire shell you just do 'end caps'. Two mirrored parts that go on the left/right sides (when facing the connector), have this part slot between with screw holes, but correctly fits the outside dimension of the cart slot and keying. I hope that makes sense, if not I could make a drawing.
 
brizzo said:
It would be very labor intense to do castings for these shells.
But if you get creative with 3d printing, perhaps instead of doing the entire shell you just do 'end caps'. Two mirrored parts that go on the left/right sides (when facing the connector), have this part slot between with screw holes, but correctly fits the outside dimension of the cart slot and keying. I hope that makes sense, if not I could make a drawing.
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You mean something like this? ;)
https://www.arcade-projects.com/for...gm-conversion-info-out-there.4812/post-141193
Unfortunately I don't have access to a 3D printer or laser cutter at the moment. I could make the brackets "E" shaped, so that they can act both as a spacer and to fit acrylic covers.

I think early NGDevTeam releases are routed from wood, aren't they?
 
Yes that is what I had in mind, and more (the acrylic parts) :D

I'm sure you could convince @twistedsymphony to print some test parts
 
I made a list of parts you'll need to have to build these :)

10x 27c322 EPROMs
3x 42 dip sockets - optional
2x GAL16V8
2x 20 dip sockets - optional
16x 0.1uF ceramic capacitor
2x 74LS257
1x 74LS139
1x 74LS138
4x 10uF 16v capacitor
1x 100 Ohm Resistor
2x 10k Ohm resistor array 8 res 9 pin

This is enough for one set.
You can't close the shell if you socket the chips on the char board, but the sockets you'd need are below:

4x 16 dip sockets
7x 42 dip sockets

Thanks Fluffy.
 
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vaughan14 said:
I made a list of parts you'll need to have to build these :)

10x 27c322 EPROMs
7x 42 dip sockets - optional
2x GAL16V8
2x 20 dip sockets - optional
16x 0.1uF capacitor
2x 74LS257
1x 74LS139
1x 74LS138
4x 16 dip sockets - optional
4x 10uF 16v capacitor
1x 100 Ohm Resistor
2x 10k Ohm resistor array 8 res 9 pin

This is enough for one set, I know that fluffy was saying you couldn't close the shell with sockets on some of the chips on the prog board I think.
Let me know and I'll adjust it.
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The other way around: You can't use sockets on the char board if you want to fit everything into a shell. I recommend using sockets for the prog board, both for the GAL and the EPROMs.
So:
3x 42 dip sockets for prog board
7x 42 dip sockets for char board - if you don't plan to use a shell

The rest looks good.

Edit: reference pictures here: IGS PGM Custom Graphics PCB testers
I assume they left the space for the prog board so that operators can easily update the program ROM with any new revisions. That is why everything is squeezed into the bottom half.
 
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brizzo said:
Yes that is what I had in mind, and more (the acrylic parts)

I'm sure you could convince @twistedsymphony to print some test parts
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3D printing the whole shell could be done but given the size of them it'd be expensive (I'd guess ~$40 retail) and you'd need a pretty big printer to do it (10in or larger bed).

Originally I wasn't considering this since most people were converting original carts with a case, and normally I wouldn't consider it unless there is a cost benefit, which there isn't here since you can get an original cart for less than what it would cost to 3D print a shell. However, that's also true of STV and there is some benefit to the 3D printed cart shells in that

1. you're not sacking an original cart just for the shell
and
2. I was able to design features into the new STV shells that complimented the multi, meaning you didn't have to modify an original case.

Making a mostly acrylic shell with 3D printed sides is an interesting idea. I'm not sure if it changes the cost much but I know @Lions3 does this for his repo MVS cart shells: https://lions3.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/2017-05-09-19.32.00.jpg

He might be a more suitable choice for these repo PGM cart shells since he's does laser cutting in addition to 3D printing and has experience making a similar case.

I will say that making your own case would probably give you the benefit of socketing all of the chips since you could give yourself more clearance on the CHAR board.
 
twistedsymphony said:
3D printing the whole shell could be done but given the size of them it'd be expensive (I'd guess ~$40 retail) and you'd need a pretty big printer to do it (10in or larger bed).
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I got one quote from a company that does SLS in nylon, which was even higher (>£100). One problem is as well that you can't easily nest pieces to maximise the build volume.
I considered a 100% laser cut shell as well, by making the side pieces from stacked slices. No idea of the cost this would be, as I have no experience with laser cutting.
 
Fluffy said:
I got one quote from a company that does SLS in nylon, which was even higher (>£100).
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yes, having a professional shop do it would cost that much.

the ~$40 retail estimate is how much I would charge if I were to make/sell something like this (see the link in my signature)

I charge $24 for my ST-V cases but it would cost you 3x that (or more) if you were to have them printed by 3D Hubs or Shapeways
 
I think the new case, regardless of style, only seems to make sense if we do a multi and would need it bigger or with access to dip switches.

Right now, it seems like sacking another game might be the best option.
 
xtrasmiley said:
I think the new case, regardless of style, only seems to make sense if we do a multi and would need it bigger or with access to dip switches.

Right now, it seems like sacking another game might be the best option.
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I think sacrificing another cart is always a bad option.
 
Keep in mind, how many you may get depends on Fluffy. The list is just US guys that might want to have their alottment sent to me so I can distribute from the US to save time and shipping.
 
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