MiSTer FPGA

[djsheep]

Been busy testing the new MiSTercade build on the right, and it's gettting very close to the final release version... those with pre-orders in are going to be very happy campers. I won't say too much, but there'll be some other surprises (upgrades? all-ons?) in the works...

It's working beautifully in the Astro City and have spent most of my time this week playing with it. SNAC works beautifully and opens up doors to light gun games on NES, SNES, Mega Drive.

I know @ShootTheCore has been busy with the manual so it's going to be pretty well documented by the time it comes out.

Was nice to see my name on the silkscreen of the Beta too

 

[nassekova]

Any change to still squeeze in for pre-order patch? I promise to take out the trash and clean my room whole month! (And perhaps make more BetsuBetsus!)

 

[twistedsymphony]

I've played with MiSTer for a few weeks now and I've gone back to MAME. MiSTer just isn't refined enough yet to make a robust multi for my liking.

I think I've posted my complaints about the menu/game selection a few times.

There also seems to be a lot of inconsistency with certain things... for instance some games the volume level is way high, other's it's way soft. Some games have a volume adjustment, some dont, and the ones that do have the adjustment it's defaulted to max... so like if's too soft the only way to fix it would be to adjust all of the other games down.

Half of the vertical games are rotated the wrong way by default.

I think the straw that broke the camels back though was when I started playing around with scanlines I noticed is when running vertical games rotated on an LCD the scan-lines go the wrong way :-/

I'm sure there's a lot of great work going into this but it's still got way too many lose ends for what I'd want to use it for.

I got away from emulation because I HATE wasting hours playing with configs and trying to get everything to play nice... and so far MiSTer is even worse than MAME in that regard.

 

[Aurich]

The only thing I'm interested in using MiSTer for is in cabs, as a replacement for some PCBs. I can accept the smaller library and limitations for a better experience on games I care enough about to have on a cab. That means accuracy and input lag mostly.

I still haven't ordered the parts for my build, which means I'll get hit by the price increase, but $30, shrug. In this hobby you can't worry about that. Until I get word my Mistercade is shipping I just don't have much need for it all.

 

[djsheep]

I've played with MiSTer for a few weeks now and I've gone back to MAME. MiSTer just isn't refined enough yet to make a robust multi for my liking.

I think I've posted my complaints about the menu/game selection a few times.

There also seems to be a lot of inconsistency with certain things... for instance some games the volume level is way high, other's it's way soft. Some games have a volume adjustment, some dont, and the ones that do have the adjustment it's defaulted to max... so like if's too soft the only way to fix it would be to adjust all of the other games down.

Half of the vertical games are rotated the wrong way by default.

I think the straw that broke the camels back though was when I started playing around with scanlines I noticed is when running vertical games rotated on an LCD the scan-lines go the wrong way :-/

I'm sure there's a lot of great work going into this but it's still got way too many lose ends for what I'd want to use it for.

I got away from emulation because I HATE wasting hours playing with configs and trying to get everything to play nice... and so far MiSTer is even worse than MAME in that regard.

Agreed that the menu/game selection menu ain't the prettiest, but once you get used to it, it's second nature/autopilot.

re: Audio Levels. Yep, it can get very frustrating. I just got around to re-setting all mine up, took a whole day to get it to my personal liking... however, you can run this script -- https://github.com/misteraddons/normalize_audio_scripts -- which tidies up everything audio wise, in line and against the softest audiable core, PC Engine. You can go a little louder +6db, or keep it at 0db too. There's only some fine adjustments to be made then to get things sounding decent across every core. After running the script, just load the PC Engine core, set it to 2x amplification and use that as your baseline min/max.

re: Vertical Games rotated incorrectly. I was wondering which ones? I've not come across this. The CAVE games, CPS-1, CPS-2, etc. are definitely all the right way (CCW), and all the older stuff I believe was CW instead of CCW originally anyhow, so they're just keeping it the same as the original PCBs...

re: Vertical Scanlines: You can definitely enable them vertically for every core, you just bring up the page 2 of the OSD menu and choose which ones you want under "Filters - Custom" -- https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Filters_MiSTer/tree/master/Filters -- the update_all script downloads these all automatically though. I use "Scanlines (Sharp)" or "Vertical Scanlines (Sharp)" most of the time…

I get why you jumped ship @twistedsymphony -- I've been through the same state of mind, but just pushed ahead to reach the end goal. Thankfully there's a good community to help out, and with things like the custom scripts and MiSTercade on its way, I'm sure that we're getting closer to point of easier access to pre-configured standardisation amongst the project. No pain, no gain really. Setting up MAME or a RPi is just as painful for me honestly.

 

[twistedsymphony]

Agreed that the menu/game selection menu ain't the prettiest, but once you get used to it, it's second nature/autopilot.

That's a problem.

All of my use-cases are for players that are NOT ME. they're people vising my place for a game night, or in the instance I was hoping to use MiSTer for I'm setting up a cab in an office lounge. These are people who need to be able to use it without any prior instruction, browse the games and then exit back to the menu without any complicated instruction... ideally with no way for them to accidentally (or maliciously) modify any settings or break something in the software.

re: Audio Levels. Yep, it can get very frustrating. I just got around to re-setting all mine up, took a whole day to get it to my personal liking... however, you can run this script

I'll definitely check that out, thanks!

re: Vertical Games rotated incorrectly. I was wondering which ones? I've not come across this. The CAVE games, CPS-1, CPS-2, etc. are definitely all the right way (CCW), and all the older stuff I believe was CW instead of CCW originally anyhow, so they're just keeping it the same as the original PCBs...

if that's how it actually worked then I'd have no complaint. But I'm running on a hoizontal monitor (Vewlix LCD) and the vertical games are all pre-rotated to run on a horizontal monitor... it's just that a good number of them are backwards.

IMO either set them to respect their native rotation, or if you ARE going to pre-rotate them to accommodate a horizontal monitor, at least rotate them the correct way... I can tell you the Cave games were all backwards for me... CPS1 stuff was fine. though Space Invaders was really fucked up in that it was trying to render it as a horizontal game instead of vertical... so the aspect ratio was essentially locked to 3:4 instead of 4:3

re: Vertical Scanlines: You can definitely enable them vertically for every core, you just bring up the page 2 of the OSD menu and choose which ones you want under "Filters - Custom" -- https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Filters_MiSTer/tree/master/Filters -- the update_all script downloads these all automatically though.

I've definitely run the update_all script many times, and I've definitely poured through the OSD menu and not seen any way to rotate the scanlines. maybe this isn't working again because I'm trying to run these games on a horizontally mounted LCD. the scan-lines are essentially correct for the display but incorrect for the rotation of the game.

 

[djsheep]

That's a problem.

All of my use-cases are for players that are NOT ME. they're people vising my place for a game night, or in the instance I was hoping to use MiSTer for I'm setting up a cab in an office lounge. These are people who need to be able to use it without any prior instruction, browse the games and then exit back to the menu without any complicated instruction... ideally with no way for them to accidentally (or maliciously) modify any settings or break something in the software.

Yeah, the MiSTer isn't going to work in a public situation as a "multi game" for people with no experience with it. In that instance, it's great for setting up a single game and letting it run like a normal PCB though. As long as there's no hot key set for menu, there's no way to access or destroy anything without having physical access to the devices buttons.

You can also run the “Super Attract Mode” script and have it set to play only certain games you’ve picked and set a timer to switch, anyone interested in playing the game just walks up and goes for it.

if that's how it actually worked then I'd have no complaint. But I'm running on a hoizontal monitor (Vewlix LCD) and the vertical games are all pre-rotated to run on a horizontal monitor... it's just that a good number of them are backwards.

IMO either set them to respect their native rotation, or if you ARE going to pre-rotate them to accommodate a horizontal monitor, at least rotate them the correct way... I can tell you the Cave games were all backwards for me... CPS1 stuff was fine. though Space Invaders was really fucked up in that it was trying to render it as a horizontal game instead of vertical... so the aspect ratio was essentially locked to 3:4 instead of 4:3

I have been running a HDMI MiSTer this week and the CAVE stuff was definitely rotated the right way on a horizontal LCD? Thankfully it's not a big deal to change them over. Hitting "save settings" after making changes will save that state also. But yeah, there needs to be some care in developers or cores to make sure things like this are taken into consideration. There's some cores out there that need some work, that's for sure!

I've definitely run the update_all script many times, and I've definitely poured through the OSD menu and not seen any way to rotate the scanlines. maybe this isn't working again because I'm trying to run these games on a horizontally mounted LCD. the scan-lines are essentially correct for the display but incorrect for the rotation of the game.

Were you using the "Scandoubler FX" scanlines? (the ones that say 25%, 50%, etc.) -- they don't work in Vertical Mode. You need to use the Video Filters which are more "accurate" — https://boogermann.github.io/Bible_MiSTer/getting-started/extras/video-filters/ — I’m running these on a LCD at the moment with vertical games.

 

[awbacon1]

That's a problem.

All of my use-cases are for players that are NOT ME. they're people vising my place for a game night, or in the instance I was hoping to use MiSTer for I'm setting up a cab in an office lounge. These are people who need to be able to use it without any prior instruction, browse the games and then exit back to the menu without any complicated instruction... ideally with no way for them to accidentally (or maliciously) modify any settings or break something in the software.


I'll definitely check that out, thanks!


if that's how it actually worked then I'd have no complaint. But I'm running on a hoizontal monitor (Vewlix LCD) and the vertical games are all pre-rotated to run on a horizontal monitor... it's just that a good number of them are backwards.

IMO either set them to respect their native rotation, or if you ARE going to pre-rotate them to accommodate a horizontal monitor, at least rotate them the correct way... I can tell you the Cave games were all backwards for me... CPS1 stuff was fine. though Space Invaders was really fucked up in that it was trying to render it as a horizontal game instead of vertical... so the aspect ratio was essentially locked to 3:4 instead of 4:3


I've definitely run the update_all script many times, and I've definitely poured through the OSD menu and not seen any way to rotate the scanlines. maybe this isn't working again because I'm trying to run these games on a horizontally mounted LCD. the scan-lines are essentially correct for the display but incorrect for the rotation of the game.

I really enjoy my MiSTer but it's one of those things I couldn't really recommend to anyone who isn't at least minorly tech savvy. There are 100 things you can alter and so many of those can be to the users detriment if they don't know what they are altering. The fact the INI can be changed on the fly with a GUI is awesome...so long as you know what you are changing, why you are changing it and the end result of that change.

I don't know if this will ever happen....or needs to...but if you took the MiSTer and dropped an OS on it that felt like a "platform" and not a "device'....that would be the best for expanding the user base for people less comfortable with INI tweaks and other esoteric settings.

It's def a project FROM technically minded people FOR technically minded people. Nothing wrong with that but as it gets more popular I think some people will come into the MiSTer crowd and have no more experience than plugging a console into a tv and it "just works"

I had a friend over and we were playing some shit on MiSTer and he wanted to change cores. I was just like "yeah lemme see the controller"....because it's not hard, but it's not "easy" either if you have zero experience with it

 

[ShootTheCore]

We've had similar conversations come up during the MiSTercade beta test as I've been writing the manual - are these MiSTer JAMMA hats mostly being purchased by arcade folks with the expectation that the MiSTer can be plugged into the JAMMA harness and used like an Pandora's Box (menu of games, with a Service Menu triggered by the cab Service button, and configuration settings locked out)? Or will they be purchased by long-time MiSTer users that are already well-acquainted with the standard MiSter method of configuring INI files and manipulating menus?

Unfortunately, for now the MiSTer doesn't have the flexibility of MAME or a Raspberry Pi where you can install custom themes & menus, and easily set universal key bindings. Service menu support isn't implemented consistently across the arcade cores either - some cores move the DIP settings into the MiSTer menus.

I'm trying to write the manual so that both types of users are informed - the details of properly connecting the JAMMA harness, handling amplified mono vs line-level stereo audio, Buttons 5 & 6 through a kickharness or CHAMMA, power supply adjustment, etc are there for MiSTer users who may not know the arcade intricacies, while the MiSTer SD card setup details and INI manipulation stuff is there for arcade folks that may not know the MiSTer intricacies.

I didn't know about the vertical scanlines option though - I'll add that to the manual now!

 

[awbacon1]

We've had similar conversations come up during the MiSTercade beta test as I've been writing the manual - are these MiSTer JAMMA hats mostly being purchased by arcade folks with the expectation that the MiSTer can be plugged into the JAMMA harness and used like an Pandora's Box (menu of games, with a Service Menu triggered by the cab Service button, and configuration settings locked out)? Or will they be purchased by long-time MiSTer users that are already well-acquainted with the standard MiSter method of configuring INI files and manipulating menus?

Unfortunately, for now the MiSTer doesn't have the flexibility of MAME or a Raspberry Pi where you can install custom themes & menus, and easily set universal key bindings. Service menu support isn't implemented consistently across the arcade cores either - some cores move the DIP settings into the MiSTer menus.

I'm trying to write the manual so that both types of users are informed - the details of properly connecting the JAMMA harness, handling amplified mono vs line-level stereo audio, Buttons 5 & 6 through a kickharness or CHAMMA, power supply adjustment, etc are there for MiSTer users who may not know the arcade intricacies, while the MiSTer SD card setup details and INI manipulation stuff is there for arcade folks that may not know the MiSTer intricacies.

I didn't know about the vertical scanlines option though - I'll add that to the manual now!

I don't envy that position lol. How big is the cross section of people who both know their way around a MiSTer AND arcade hardware setup? You've hit a double niche

 

[invzim]

@twistedsymphony, since I'm working on some final stuff on the Jamma Expander (which will also be backported to the JVS-PAC 2)..

Do you want 'users' to be able to change soft-core volume?
Do you want them to select game via a button combo, or do you plan on wiring up a specific change button and label it 'change game'?
Do you want to use physical coins, your own credit button or a button combo?

 

[twistedsymphony]

Unfortunately, for now the MiSTer doesn't have the flexibility of MAME or a Raspberry Pi where you can install custom themes & menus, and easily set universal key bindings

Honestly that's a problem for MAME/Pi also IMO.

"customization" and "flexibility" really shouldn't be the primary goal... heck it's not even a secondary goal it's maybe 9th or 10th on the list of important things.

Ultimately most of the users want to:
1-Plug it in
2-Intuitively Select their Game without being presented with other/confusing options
3-Play their game
4-Intuitively Exit back to the menu
5-Repeat steps 2-5

Fancy menus for game selection and OSD for key remapping are NICE TO HAVEs not NEED to haves.

IMO you should build a UI that performs the 5 steps above and nothing else. that's your foundation. and you can build on that. Right now the MiSTer doesn't even do that well. but neither does MAME/PiCade stuff without a lot of work by the user to set it up that way.

My unsolicited 2c: if I was building a JAMMA, JVS, or Consolized MiSTer I'd work on getting a script put together that preconfigured EVERYTHING and simplified the menus to just basic game selection. remove all of the other config options from the menus so they're direct ini modification only. or hide them behind an "advanced configuration mode" menu option.

After assembling the hardware and running the setup script the end result should be as easy/intuitive to use as an NES mini.

these things are being developed by nerds who like to tinker so they expose all the other options for people to tinker, but if you want something to have wide appeal you're much much better served by stripping away as many options as possible and then just refining the default setup.


EDIT: for context the most popular Arcade Multi is arguably the Darksoft CPS2 multi... you install the hardware, you put your ROMs on the SD card, then you have a menu with 3 buttons. up, down and select. and people are fucking THRILLED with that and still placing pre-orders for every batch made years later.

The enhancements over the years haven't been fancy configuration options, no they've been key re-writing (more accurate ROMs) and easier installation. And that multi gets praise from all sides with nary a complaint. Because it followed the 5 basics steps that I outlined above... it does them exceptionally well and it explicitly does nothing else.

 

[awbacon1]

Honestly that's a problem for MAME/Pi also IMO.

"customization" and "flexibility" really shouldn't be the primary goal... heck it's not even a secondary goal it's maybe 9th or 10th on the list of important things.

Ultimately most of the users want to:
1-Plug it in
2-Intuitively Select their Game without being presented with other/confusing options
3-Play their game
4-Intuitively Exit back to the menu
5-Repeat steps 2-5

Fancy menus for game selection and OSD for key remapping are NICE TO HAVEs not NEED to haves.

IMO you should build a UI that performs the 5 steps above and nothing else. that's your foundation. and you can build on that. Right now the MiSTer doesn't even do that well. but neither does MAME/PiCade stuff without a lot of work by the user to set it up that way.

My unsolicited 2c: if I was building a JAMMA, JVS, or Consolized MiSTer I'd work on getting a script put together that preconfigured EVERYTHING and simplified the menus to just basic game selection. remove all of the other config options from the menus so they're direct ini modification only. or hide them behind an "advanced configuration mode" menu option.

After assembling the hardware and running the setup script the end result should be as easy/intuitive to use as an NES mini.

these things are being developed by nerds who like to tinker so they expose all the other options for people to tinker, but if you want something to have wide appeal you're much much better served by stripping away as many options as possible and then just refining the default setup.


EDIT: for context the most popular Arcade Multi is arguably the Darksoft CPS2 multi... you install the hardware, you put your ROMs on the SD card, then you have a menu with 3 buttons. up, down and select. and people are fucking THRILLED with that and still placing pre-orders for every batch made years later.

The enhancements over the years haven't been fancy configuration options, no they've been key re-writing (more accurate ROMs) and easier installation. And that multi gets praise from all sides with nary a complaint. Because it followed the 5 basics steps that I outlined above... it does them exceptionally well and it explicitly does nothing else.

Exactly. MiSTer is a device. People will start to think it's a "product" after it gets more popular...but it doesn't function as a "product", as in it doesn't have an ease of use or UI that is "plug and play"

My opinion is once you get past "drag and drop" adding of roms and ask the end user to adjust anything else...you've eclipsed the technical knowledge of 75% + of people today

 

[twistedsymphony]

you've eclipsed the technical knowledge of 75% + of people today

That's true, but there's also a chunk of the remaining 25% with the technical knowledge that just don't want to spend their time on it.

Myself included.

I enjoy restoring cabs, or studying how a certain piece of old hardware works/sharing what I learned. but IMO spending time tinkering and configuration an emulator is a complete waste of my time, it doesn't benefit the community, it has no lasting value to myself or others since it's probably going to be obsolete information within 6-months... it's just all-round a giant time-sync that could be spent doing something more beneficial.

 

[djsheep]

My stance is, MiSTer can be a pain to get set up, but once it is, it’s a nice little piece of action to have alongside original hardware. Definitely good for game hopping sessions with mates if you can be in the drivers seat selecting them.

I own 95% of the console/computers I care about and will still buy PCBs/Multis if I really want the “original” experience, but truth be told a lot of that stuff is becoming way too pricey and for certain games, I’m fine with the MiSTer core. That’s pretty much why I bought it. There’s games out there I’d “like” but I’m also not to keen on paying $200 for something I’ll only play every now and then. With certain cores in the horizon like Toaplan and Psikyo, it will free up potential shelf space and give me access to the games should I ever want to play them.

It’s not for everyone. But either is MAME or original hardware for that matter. If you can follow install instructions for IKEA furniture and know how to edit a config file and your way around a OS, you’ll be 100% fine.

I was extremely skeptical early on, but I think it’s maturing enough to warrant more interest and some support from the arcade community. Definitely not a replacement for original hardware but a reasonably priced hardware emulator/simulator to fill in the gaps.

 

[awbacon1]

View: https://youtu.be/0v_rAvul1SQ


Speaking of setting things up lol...who will win? One super pcb packed CDX or our little MiSTer friend?

 

[awbacon1]

That's true, but there's also a chunk of the remaining 25% with the technical knowledge that just don't want to spend their time on it.

Myself included.

I enjoy restoring cabs, or studying how a certain piece of old hardware works/sharing what I learned. but IMO spending time tinkering and configuration an emulator is a complete waste of my time, it doesn't benefit the community, it has no lasting value to myself or others since it's probably going to be obsolete information within 6-months... it's just all-round a giant time-sync that could be spent doing something more beneficial.

I get that. I enjoy myself a lot more with a soldering iron in my hand than I do in an INI file.

Give me some obscure arcade pcb that needs to be converted / repaired / brought back to life and I have 10X more fun than dealing with software settings and INI tweaks.

But I do like tweaking stuff too...just not nearly as much as working on hardware

 

[awbacon1]

View: https://youtu.be/8g-nGhqB73w


Anyone ever have RGB issues with Neo Geo on MiSTer? I was able to replicate the problem in FB Alpha with the most recent UniBios but I've never seen it happen on my AES

 

[archimage]

View: https://youtu.be/8g-nGhqB73w


Anyone ever have RGB issues with Neo Geo on MiSTer? I was able to replicate the problem in FB Alpha with the most recent UniBios but I've never seen it happen on my AES

did you play the hdmi color space settings ? I believe there's a difference between full and limited, I read they should give different results

 

[awbacon1]

did you play the hdmi color space settings ? I believe there's a difference between full and limited, I read they should give different results

Yes. Interestingly I was able to replicate the issue in Final Burn Alpha when capturing a MisTer vs software video. I found a few threads specifically mentioning Matrimelee. No concrete answer but it’s an issue that’s not specific to MisTer. Who knew!