Taito F3 Multigame

[deibit]

So for those of us that managed to get a Beta version of the F3 multi... What's changed in the final design?
Is it worth getting another final version, or are the features basically the same?

I "heard" that the proto version was mainly identical to the final version but with some additional test jump wires that were removed in the final version.

Feature wise, the romsets have been modified to not to have to press the physically the service button on the motherboard every time you switch games (like when you switch original pcbs). But this has nothing to do with the hardware.

 

[nio]

When will shipping start?

 

[beast1x5]

Honestly speaking I'd totally pay for a solid 3d printed shell for the multi PCB , especially if there's a darksoft logo on it. Nonetheless fantastic job @Darksoft

I think it will be tough to 3d print this one on a hobby level printer, unless it's broken up into multiple pieces. I know the build plate on my printer is a bit over half the size of the shell. Might need to be a run from someone like Shapeways to get access to a big enough printer to do it as single pieces.

well the original enclosure for a taito f3 game pcb is in 2 parts isn't it??

 

[deibit]

even thought the case is a nice thing, a decased F3 is pretty compact and stealth when coupled with the motherboard.

The case makes it easier if you want to switch PCBs but you don't really need that if you have a Multi that supports everything....

just my two cents

 

[Darksoft]

When will shipping start?

In 4 weeks.

 

[98pacecar]

Honestly speaking I'd totally pay for a solid 3d printed shell for the multi PCB , especially if there's a darksoft logo on it. Nonetheless fantastic job @Darksoft

I think it will be tough to 3d print this one on a hobby level printer, unless it's broken up into multiple pieces. I know the build plate on my printer is a bit over half the size of the shell. Might need to be a run from someone like Shapeways to get access to a big enough printer to do it as single pieces.
well the original enclosure for a taito f3 game pcb is in 2 parts isn't it??

Yea, it's a front and back. What I was referring to is that the overall length and width is too much for pretty much all hobby level printers that are out there. It simply won't fit on the build plate unless it's broken into multiple pieces that attach to each other somehow. A typical build plate is 180mm x 180mm and the F3 cart shell is 290mm x 230mm.

 

[twistedsymphony]

yup my build plate is pretty big for most hobbyist printers at 230mm x 260mm and it's still not big enough.

even if it "fit" you still want some room around parameter and then you have to deal with prints failing and with such a large part the potential for failure goes way up... even if it did fit it'd likely end up being something like a $50+ print once you factor in the material cost, print time (electricity+wear and tear), part yield, and a bit of profit.

 

[Derick2k]

Yup, looks like we need laser cut/etched acrylic plates with and without cutouts for the lcd and standalone 3d printed case for the lcd as well.

 

[KalessinDB]

After seeing (and not buying due to financial constraints - *god* I hope he makes a second run) Jasen's all-in-one case for the CPS2 multi, I'm really of the opinion that putting it all together in one, be it metal or acrylic, is the way to go. Like deibit said, it's not like you're really going to be swapping the multi off if it's supporting everything, right?

 

[Derick2k]

Agree, a nice plexi case with some nice standoffs/spacers and some nice feet/top screws. and of course some nice etched logos, also available in red, black or clear plexi would be nice.

 

[KalessinDB]

Agree, a nice plexi case with some nice standoffs/spacers and some nice feet/top screws. and of course some nice etched logos, also available in red, black or clear plexi would be nice.

If colors are in the game, I would say black bottom (since at least my motherboard has a black plastic bit on the bottom anyway) and red top (because of the red carts obviously)

But anything is good!

 

[aoiddr]

Q: Will the Twin Qix rom come in both US and Japanese versions?
(Page showing the differences: https://tcrf.net/Twin_Qix )

 

[Darksoft]

I'm not sure which one we tested, but I see no reason for it not to work.

 

[deibit]

this...

But it would be nice if our extremely kind image packager could provide different rom sets... US, Japan..

 

[Asure]

our extremely kind image packager

Such kind words

As i'm the one who worked on the rom sets:

- I can confirm that Twin Qix has both regions in it. It's a completely different game in JP region.
- Also, there's the Extra version of Bubble Memories (Has both normal and extra mode selectable from boot.)
- And the protection-free version of Super Cup finals that i cooked up.

Also, yes, F3 does not boot into test mode by default, but i bypassed that check in the romsets.
Not all of the games do this as you saw in the video. Command war and Riding Fight come to mind.)
Initial boot up code is changed so that it thinks you are pressing test mode when the game is swapped.
And this is done only when the game is swapped. Otherwise it will boot up as normal.

Otherwise you will be flipping your CP or reaching down into your cab for the hard to find TEST button every time.
Believe me this can get annoying after testing games for some hours.

Anything rom-wise you want to know about, just ask me. Anything that you think is missing, let me know.
I was aware of Twin Qix and Bubble Memories Extra mode.
But i don't know about any other games that are maybe 'better' in Japanese region Ver.a.01. or stuff like that, so let me know

 

[donluca]

Two questions about the multicart (and sorry if those have already been replied, I must have missed them).

Can I use "clean" ROM dumps with the multicart? Can I use the dumps straight from MAME sets?

Is there a way to prevent the screen from flickering during the ROM loading? I'm a bit afraid of damage to the screen since it repeatedly blanks the screen and sync again. Since all we see are garbled graphics during the loading, is it possible to maintain the screen synced with a blank picture?

Thanks!

 

[Asure]

The cart can use clean (unedited) rom dumps, but it does not use 'straight' 1:1 files as you would find them for MAME.
The files need to be in a specific format for the multi to be flashable into the cart, just like it was with the CPS2 multi.
The process is simple and i'm sure something will pop up to convert/make your own sets.

Or you could just download a package and be done with it. There's not hundreds of versions and regions and hacks like CPS2

As for the screen flicker during flashing, the F3 itself does around 3-4 of these cycles normally when booting up & swapping cartridges, and about 2 cycles when you enter test mode. I do not see this causing any problems with monitors in any way. It's just the watchdog kicking the CPU. If you want to minimize this, use my romset with "test mode after swap".

 

[deibit]

Is there a way to prevent the screen from flickering during the ROM loading? I'm a bit afraid of damage to the screen since it repeatedly blanks the screen and sync again. Since all we see are garbled graphics during the loading, is it possible to maintain the screen synced with a blank picture?

Mmmm I don't feel annoying sync changes when switching games.. The screen is full of garbage yes but I don't think there's anything dangerous about it... It behaves like the cps2 multi more or less.

 

[donluca]

The cart can use clean (unedited) rom dumps, but it does not use 'straight' 1:1 files as you would find them for MAME.
The files need to be in a specific format for the multi to be flashable into the cart, just like it was with the CPS2 multi.
The process is simple and i'm sure something will pop up to convert/make your own sets.

Or you could just download a package and be done with it. There's not hundreds of versions and regions and hacks like CPS2

As for the screen flicker during flashing, the F3 itself does around 3-4 of these cycles normally when booting up & swapping cartridges, and about 2 cycles when you enter test mode. I do not see this causing any problems with monitors in any way. It's just the watchdog kicking the CPU. If you want to minimize this, use my romset with "test mode after swap".

Thanks for the extensive reply!

So the cart can use unedited ROMs, they just need to be converted in a format which the cart understands, but no modification is applied to the original ROM (ie: no hacking to prevent security stuff kicking in)

EDIT: About the screen flickering. Yes I know it does when booting the game or entering test mode, but judging by the video posted it does this several times while loading the games. It would be great if that could be prevented, since there's no need for it.

 

[Asure]

So the cart can use unedited ROMs, they just need to be converted in a format which the cart understands, but no modification is applied to the original ROM (ie: no hacking to prevent security stuff kicking in)

There is no security or protection (other than the types covered by the Multi) in any of the F3 cartridge games.
So no modification(s) are needed to any of the F3 rom dumps. If you do use clean roms, the cart behaves exactly as a real F3 cart would (this includes any PAL or other form of security.)

The only game with additional software protection is Super Cup Finals. It relies on specific NVRAM content which was written by Taito to the EEPROM on the Single pcb, to prevent operators upgrading a 'Cup Finals' pcb into the 'Super' version with only 4 roms.
I'm pretty sure both dumps in MAME are from single PCB.

Edit: The screen flickering cannot be prevented, it's the way the original hardware works. The flickering is normal behavior when booting a F3 and/or exiting test mode, and cannot be avoided. It's the way Taito made these.
It's like saying "i don't want my screen to flicker when i reset my SNES or Amiga or Megadrive or SMS or <insert random console with reset button>" .