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Best options for RGB on large Consumer CRTs (in North America)

twistedsymphony

twistedsymphony

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I don't think there is any disagreement that Broadcast monitors like the Sony PVM/BVM line are the tops when it comes to CRT image quality and RGB support, But they're difficult to find an often expensive when you do find them. Europe seems to have wide support for SCART on consumer CRT TVs so they don't really need help. :P

I'm looking for options that meet the following criteria:
1. 4:3 aspect ratio.
2. 27" or larger tube size
3. Must be cheap/easy to source (ie: having been sold in high volume to consumers through big box stores, not professional/boutique models)
4. Native 240P support for RGB output from NES/SNES/Genesis/N64/Saturn/PS1/etc
5. Optional Native 480P support for Dreamcast/PS2/GameCube/Original Xbox/Wii/etc
6. Optional can provide all of the above without any modification

So far what I've been able find that ticks all the boxes are:
Sony Trinitron KV-##FV310 / Sony Trinitron KV-##FV300
https://docs.sony.com/release/specs/KV36FV310_sp.pdf

Sony Trinitron KV-##FS120 / Sony Trinitron KV-##FS100
https://docs.sony.com/release/KV27FS120revision.pdf



Those seem to tick all of the boxes. Most of these seem to be available in sizes from 24 up to 36". I see a handful of them available for sale locally all for under $100, they don't offer an RGB input however they have Component video input and there are "lagless" RGB/SCART to Component transcoders available such as the Shinybow SB-2840 http://www.ani-av.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=220 There are other Transcoders out there but that one looks well made and it's available (many of the others are no longer made).


I believe I've seen people RGB Mod the FS120 or FS100, but I'd be interested to see how pure RGB stacks up against transcoded component on one of these displays.

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Anyone else know of any solid options to look out for, or have any experience with the above TVs and/or RGB transcoders?
 
hm... i know it's not perfect, but what about simply converting RGB to Component- it incurs zero lag, and is only very minority lossy as far as color space goes...
 
defor said:
i know it's not perfect, but what about simply converting RGB to Component- it incurs zero lag, and is only very minority lossy as far as color space goes...
Click to expand...
that's exactly what I spent the second half of my post talking about :P

twistedsymphony said:
...they don't offer an RGB input however they have Component video input and there are "lagless" RGB/SCART to Component transcoders available such as the Shinybow SB-2840 ani-av.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=220 There are other Transcoders out there but that one looks well made and it's available (many of the others are no longer made).


I believe I've seen people RGB Mod the FS120 or FS100, but I'd be interested to see how pure RGB stacks up against transcoded component on one of these displays.
Click to expand...
 
yeah... so that's a thing...

in general, I find that it's hard to tell Component from RGB if you're not looking for it... and there's definitely a lot of adapters out there- as long as they use basic logic, they should be virtually perfect- your issues may occur if they use some kind of all-in one chip that does more than rgb to component on the back end, but is sold as just that...

My only concern would be that progressive support on the late model CRT tv's in general is pretty wishy-washy.. and if that's a thing you'll need- definitely make sure it has it...

I've got some 30" Toshiba 30HF85 widescreen CRT I got off a friend who was throwing it away and it works like a champ off component...
BUT it's also got an HDMI... so offhand it would make sense to use that right?
except that the HDMI to component is handled by a single-chip conversion engine that honestly looks... BAD.
On the upside, I can feed it 720p over component and it looks great.

so in the end YMMV, but a lot of component supporting WEGAs will only do 480i...
 
PS1 games are 240p and look beautiful on my 36" WEGA running on a PS2 with component video. That's the easiest config.

Isn't 480p basically the same way as saying 31k? I don't think you can run it on SDTVs?

I picked up a Viewsonic G225F PC monitor with RGB input on Craigslist. 20" viewable. Not big but not too small either. Dreamcast VGA is beautiful. Have not tried the RGB yet as I don't have a modded console. But that expands the available RGB CRT pool a bit.

For 480p component, you could find a HDTV CRT. I picked up a 34" Sony XBR on Craigs for $50. 27" 4:3 equivalent.

Honestly 480i component doesn't look bad for consoles. They were designed for it, unlike 480p/31k arcade games.

Personally I'll use this Viewsonic for retro RGB and the WEGA for component connections and call it a day.
 
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streetfighterken said:
Isn't 480p basically the same way as saying 31k? I don't think you can run it on SDTVs?
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yes, and you are correct, however the Trinitron models I listed in the first post are "EDTVs" that support 480P over component. so that would provide great output for PS2, Gamecube, Original Xbox, and Dreamcst with VGA transcoded to Component.
 
Good to know. I did some more digging. The Sony models you list are not "Hi-Scan", which is what you need for 480p. Here's a nifty list.
Shockingly, I picked up a 27" WEGA not long ago and it turns out to be a Hi-Scan model despite the SDTV logo on front! Score! Meanwhile my 36" model is not Hi-Scan, but their appearance is identical so you can't rely on that.
 
streetfighterken said:
The Sony models you list are not "Hi-Scan", which is what you need for 480p
Click to expand...
Hi-Scan models are HD so I'm not sure that's really want we'd want if we're interested in primarily 15KHz content.

The Sony documentation states that they're 480i only but there seems to be quite a few people on CRT enthusiast boards who believe at least the FV310 / FV300 support 480p.... unless of course it accepts the signal and down samples to 480i. ... or they're just wrong lol
 
What is a 4:3 HD signal then? Never heard of something like that. Sounds like 480p to me :)

Super Fine Pitch are the 16:9 720p/1080i models, which I also have.

Suit yourself but I'll trust the wiki and Sony's own documentation :)
 
Update: I hooked up my Dreamcast to my Hi-Scan WEGA via VGA box and VGA>Component converter and it DOES NOT work. Evidently the extra resolution is only supported via ATSC coax. This means the only models left to try are in the 4:3 Hi-Scan with HDMI category and you'll probably need to convert component to HDMI/DVI.
 
streetfighterken said:
What is a 4:3 HD signal then? Never heard of something like that. Sounds like 480p to me

Super Fine Pitch are the 16:9 720p/1080i models, which I also have.

Suit yourself but I'll trust the wiki and Sony's own documentation
Click to expand...
I was getting that information from the wiki you linked to. The wiki says that both Hi-Scan and Super Fine Pitch are 1080i models and that the only difference between the Hi-Scan and the Super Fine Pitch is the tube.


Hi-Scan is Sony's trademark for all Trinitron displays capable of processing a 1080i signal. Super Fine Pitch tubes naturally fall into this category, as do some Sony Trinitron SDTVs that cannot physically resolve 1080 lines of vertical resolution, but the term Hi-Scan is commonly used to refer to Sony Trinitron HDTVs that do not feature an SFP tube.
Click to expand...
streetfighterken said:
Update: I hooked up my Dreamcast to my Hi-Scan WEGA via VGA box and VGA>Component converter and it DOES NOT work. Evidently the extra resolution is only supported via ATSC coax. This means the only models left to try are in the 4:3 Hi-Scan with HDMI category and you'll probably need to convert component to HDMI/DVI.
Click to expand...
Thanks for testing! :thumbup:
 
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