CBOX/JAMMA Box Questions

[XtraSmiley]

I just purchased this supergun pictured. So from what I read here, I would need a much better 12v power supply right? I also have a retroelectronik supergun but scart doesn't seem to work, and I can't find an NTSC encoder anywhere on the net. I had one built 10 years ago with a JROK encoder and my mom threw it out

As has been stated many times... getting a random SG is a risky call, especially ones that look the same on the outside, but could be wired differently between sales.

It's a risk, it could damage your PCB, monitor, or both. No one here will be able to give advice on it from a picture of the exterior. Also, it could work fine now, but later fuck something up.

It's a risk. Your best bet is to open it up, get good pictures of the inside and post them.

Stick to the HAS or other SGs here on the forums that people can vouch for.

 

[kinooshi823]

As has been stated many times... getting a random SG is a risky call, especially ones that look the same on the outside, but could be wired differently between sales.

It's a risk, it could damage your PCB, monitor, or both. No one here will be able to give advice on it from a picture of the exterior. Also, it could work fine now, but later fuck something up.

It's a risk. Your best bet is to open it up, get good pictures of the inside and post them.

Stick to the HAS or other SGs here on the forums that people can vouch for.

Once I get this, I will take detailed pics and post them here. As for the other SG's I did want a much better quality one but before I remembered about this site, there wasn't options. Auxunworks was another choice but the maker only had a certain model available and wouldn't make other options so I went with that for now. In the future, I would like a much better SG of course.

 

[XtraSmiley]

Once I get this, I will take detailed pics and post them here. As for the other SG's I did want a much better quality one but before I remembered about this site, there wasn't options. Auxunworks was another choice but the maker only had a certain model available and wouldn't make other options so I went with that for now. In the future, I would like a much better SG of course.

Well, I totally get that, sometimes we do what we must!

Definitely post pictures when you get it, just to make sure something isn't majorly wrong with it and good luck!

 

[GeorgeSpinner]

I have this pictured below. Would that work? or can you send me a pic of the PCB passthrough. Also, would soldering off 11/M work as well?

Assuming that extension has all the wires your PCB needs, (because I see that not every pin is populated) you would have to make sure the pin 11/M wire isn't connected.

If the above criteria are meet, it should work fine.

I made my own passthrough PCB.

It's basically the JAMMA edge connector on that extension with a jamma harness soldered where the wires are connected.

I put clear automotive paint over pins 11 and M to prevent them from making connection.

I could have also left the harness connections for pins 11 and M unsoldered but I had originally made the PCB for a different project.

 

[GeorgeSpinner]

When you say an NTSC encoder, what do you mean? I'm not familiar with the JROK.

PCBs generally put out RGB; usually anywhere from 50-60 hz.

What do you mean by the scart doesn't work? You get no picture, it's dead? Or is it not a picture your monitor/TV can use? What kind of monitor or TV are you using? What's the input type (scart, VGA, component, composite, HDMI)?

I'm using a combination of Genesis 2 9-pin scart cables and Genesis 2 9-pin component cables.

On my OLED and other flat panels, I'm using the OSSC, retrotink 5x, or gbs-control to connect to the HDMI input.

On my CRTs, I'm running almost everything through the component input. The RGB scart signal is getting converted to component before it goes to the TV. The 9-pin component cables are converting the RGB signal to component on their own.

The component output on that Supergun is ok. The image is nice and clear but the colors are dull. I think it's most noticable in the reds. Maybe the monitor can be adjusted to make it look better but that's not an option for me; I have too many different devices hooked up.

The 9-pin RGB output is a lot better than the component output. If you have the option, I recommend it.

The s-video is very good as well. On one of my 27 inch CRTs, I use the svideo and it looks fantastic.

I only tried the composite once and I wasn't impressed. I'm not normally very impressed by composite though.

 

[JonathanGene]

"As has been stated many times... getting a random SG is a risky call, especially ones that look the same on the outside, but could be wired differently between sales."

absolutely this!

i was using my cbox for pandora style jamma boards and multis
i would never recommend connecting dubious untested guns to rare vintage equipment

just look at this very thread
we all have different revisions and features

 

[GeorgeSpinner]

Not all PCBs are rare. Whenever I get new equipment I test it out on a cheap board that I don't care much about like the 19 in 1 horizontal multi. It's not rare and it's not vintage.

I take voltage measurements wherever possible. I compare the measurements to any stated or advertised measurements. I do an eye and smell test for smoke. I let it run for 30 to 60 min.

If everything seems ok. I move to the next board I want to test that is the least rare/expensive. I continue in this manner.

The cbox isn't random or sketchy. Are there multiple revisions? Of course. There are multiple revisions of the minigun. I believe 2.5 is the latest.

I also believe the minigun has an issue where the lpf switch is wired backwards.

I use the minigun everyday and it's my favorite. I'm not knocking it. I'm just pointing out that a trusted piece of hardware has something in common with the cbox. Multiple revisions and a little something incorrect.

They are selling many cbox every year. I didn't come across any posts that said the cbox killed a PCB.

The cbox actually is a joy to use. There has been no visible issue with having the power on lower gauge wires, in the same conduit as the video wires. Video output is on par or better than AXUN mini Supergun. And it has a lot of great features like button remapping and USB. I'm not a tournament player (and I did no lag testing) but with a wired controller it feels great.

Other than the issue I found with pin 11/m (that impacts some boards) I have had no trouble with it. I told timeharvest about the issue and they are going to resolve it. So, another revision might be coming.

There is an understandable negative bias towards cheaper Chinese products. It's understandable. In my experience, very rarely do you get exactly what's being advertised. There's usually a little something off. Most often, you can overcome these shortcomings and end up with a good value for your money.

Timeharvest is the only big vendor from China that I actually trust. They have been doing business for years and haven't ever screwed me.

 

[kinooshi823]

When you say an NTSC encoder, what do you mean? I'm not familiar with the JROK.

PCBs generally put out RGB; usually anywhere from 50-60 hz.

What do you mean by the scart doesn't work? You get no picture, it's dead? Or is it not a picture your monitor/TV can use? What kind of monitor or TV are you using? What's the input type (scart, VGA, component, composite, HDMI)?

I'm using a combination of Genesis 2 9-pin scart cables and Genesis 2 9-pin component cables.

On my OLED and other flat panels, I'm using the OSSC, retrotink 5x, or gbs-control to connect to the HDMI input.

On my CRTs, I'm running almost everything through the component input. The RGB scart signal is getting converted to component before it goes to the TV. The 9-pin component cables are converting the RGB signal to component on their own.

The component output on that Supergun is ok. The image is nice and clear but the colors are dull. I think it's most noticable in the reds. Maybe the monitor can be adjusted to make it look better but that's not an option for me; I have too many different devices hooked up.

The 9-pin RGB output is a lot better than the component output. If you have the option, I recommend it.

The s-video is very good as well. On one of my 27 inch CRTs, I use the svideo and it looks fantastic.

I only tried the composite once and I wasn't impressed. I'm not normally very impressed by composite though.

Here is the website
https://www.jrok.com/hardware/RGB.html

This website hasn't been updated in years, but I basically had one of these. I had a vogatek supergun I had bought on ebay years ago and wired chip to the vogatek to outut composite at the time. But like I stated, it was thrown out. It was special to me because I wired everything by hand and was proud to have it work. So now I am going with the SG I bought. I was thinking about getting an OSSC in the future but I am in no rush. SO far that only games I have are Tekken 2, 3, Tag and 4 Jammas. I am currently with a guy selling a Midway Wolf Unit PCB that has anyu64 modded on it but I am not sure if it might be a good idea. But the concept to rom swapping is cool even thought that board supports 7 games. I was debating on a rom burner.

 

[GeorgeSpinner]

Here is the website
https://www.jrok.com/hardware/RGB.html

This website hasn't been updated in years, but I basically had one of these. I had a vogatek supergun I had bought on ebay years ago and wired chip to the vogatek to outut composite at the time. But like I stated, it was thrown out. It was special to me because I wired everything by hand and was proud to have it work. So now I am going with the SG I bought. I was thinking about getting an OSSC in the future but I am in no rush. SO far that only games I have are Tekken 2, 3, Tag and 4 Jammas. I am currently with a guy selling a Midway Wolf Unit PCB that has anyu64 modded on it but I am not sure if it might be a good idea. But the concept to rom swapping is cool even thought that board supports 7 games. I was debating on a rom burner.

Very cool. Too bad it was thrown out.

OSSC is a good investment when you are ready. It's not as complicated as it seems but there is a learning curve.

I have 2 on 2 Open Ice, which is a Wolf PCB. Wolf PCB, like most (all?) Midway boards outputs a 54hz (or 57hz, I don't remember) signal and can be hard to get to sync. On my Sony CRT the image just rolls, even if I adjust the horizontal/vertical image position. On my Panasonic CRTs I can get it to stop rolling. My Panasonic plasma will not sync to it from OSSC. My LG OLED syncs to it from OSSC very easily.

So, a Wolf unit is cool but it's a potential new set of problems.

 

[kinooshi823]

Very cool. Too bad it was thrown out.

OSSC is a good investment when you are ready. It's not as complicated as it seems but there is a learning curve.

I have 2 on 2 Open Ice, which is a Wolf PCB. Wolf PCB, like most (all?) Midway boards outputs a 54hz (or 57hz, I don't remember) signal and can be hard to get to sync. On my Sony CRT the image just rolls, even if I adjust the horizontal/vertical image position. On my Panasonic CRTs I can get it to stop rolling. My Panasonic plasma will not sync to it from OSSC. My LG OLED syncs to it from OSSC very easily.

So, a Wolf unit is cool but it's a potential new set of problems.

While researching more on the Wolf unit PCB, I see there's an interest in open ice due to its rarity, especially the security chip.

The Wolf unit I am interested in buying, it does have a rampage security chip, with UMK3 ROMs installed. I was thinking if I were to get that, I can somehow procure Vanilla MK3 ROMs for a swap. Or to solve that issue, get a ROMs burner and buying blank chips. I know this may not constitute my purchase as original because of those roms, but I guess it is something to play around with as it has been difficult to find an all original MK3 board. There was one for sale here but was sold recently.

I also own an OLED; LG CX 55' so in seeing your explanation of the OSSC working well on your tv, then if I were to get one I should see similar results, right?

And what do you mean about a potential set of new problems with the wolf unit?

I believe MK3 outputs 54hz and some change. I remember adjusting the slider a while back to 60hz for some smooth gameplay on MAME, lol but I prefer the 54.

 

[GeorgeSpinner]

While researching more on the Wolf unit PCB, I see there's an interest in open ice due to its rarity, especially the security chip.

The Wolf unit I am interested in buying, it does have a rampage security chip, with UMK3 ROMs installed. I was thinking if I were to get that, I can somehow procure Vanilla MK3 ROMs for a swap. Or to solve that issue, get a ROMs burner and buying blank chips. I know this may not constitute my purchase as original because of those roms, but I guess it is something to play around with as it has been difficult to find an all original MK3 board. There was one for sale here but was sold recently.

I also own an OLED; LG CX 55' so in seeing your explanation of the OSSC working well on your tv, then if I were to get one I should see similar results, right?

And what do you mean about a potential set of new problems with the wolf unit?

I believe MK3 outputs 54hz and some change. I remember adjusting the slider a while back to 60hz for some smooth gameplay on MAME, lol but I prefer the 54.

Yes. I'd bet your LG will work the same as mine.

By a potential new set of problems, I meant getting a 54hz signal to display properly. Your LG will be ok with the OSSC and the wolf PCB (but not the retrotink 5x). Idk what CRT you are using but it might not like 54hz.

I've purchased 30+ PCBs over the last few years. As I moved away from MVS and Capcom PCBs it got more and more complicated to get things working correctly. The wolf PCB was the hardest because it's the furthest from 60hz.

To use the wolf PCB with my Sony CRT I need to fool the GBS-control into syncing with it, then use the GBS-control to down-sample it to 240p, then convert the HDMI output to component. Or I can use a component to s-video converter but then I'm playing in 480i and it just doesn't feel authentic (plus there might be lag introduced).

 

[kinooshi823]

Yes. I'd bet your LG will work the same as mine.

By a potential new set of problems, I meant getting a 54hz signal to display properly. Your LG will be ok with the OSSC and the wolf PCB (but not the retrotink 5x). Idk what CRT you are using but it might not like 54hz.

I've purchased 30+ PCBs over the last few years. As I moved away from MVS and Capcom PCBs it got more and more complicated to get things working correctly. The wolf PCB was the hardest because it's the furthest from 60hz.

To use the wolf PCB with my Sony CRT I need to fool the GBS-control into syncing with it, then use the GBS-control to down-sample it to 240p, then convert the HDMI output to component. Or I can use a component to s-video converter but then I'm playing in 480i and it just doesn't feel authentic (plus there might be lag introduced).

Well I lost out on the Wolf board, someone beat my offer. So for now, I guess I won't have that issue, but monitor wise right now, I don't have a CRT. I was using a regular LED tv I have since I just got back into trying to have actual arcade hardware working in my home. MAME is nice and all but I wanted something more.

 

[GeorgeSpinner]

Well I lost out on the Wolf board, someone beat my offer. So for now, I guess I won't have that issue, but monitor wise right now, I don't have a CRT. I was using a regular LED tv I have since I just got back into trying to have actual arcade hardware working in my home. MAME is nice and all but I wanted something more.

Ok cool.

I know what you mean about mame. As good as mame (or MiSTer) is, they are not exactly the same as the real thing. When I find an emulated game that I like a lot, I usually buy the arcade PCB (if it's reasonable enough).

 

[Bigblue709]

Been away for a while, great discussion going here. I've been using my CBOX 4.0 (2021-04-03-DJF main PCB with 2021-05-12-DJF JAMMA PCB) for several weeks, some thoughts below.

-Still the only SG I've seen with built-in S-video output

-Button remap works for USB and SNK controller ports; I use this feature daily

-PGM, MVS, CPS2, Psikyo boards all work fine. Some games require the stereo/mono switch to be one way or the other.

RGB repositioning circuit (SYNC button, H-POS, V-POS knobs) works and is especially useful for PGM games, BUT -- there's something not fully sorted with the circuit design. Image drifts sloooooowly for the first 10 minutes or so before settling into place; occasional 1px jitter happens for a few seconds once in a while. Not very noticeable while playing shmups, but pretty noticeable on still backgrounds. Luckily most games don't seem to need it.

Overall -- dece unit, obviously the maker is doing incremental improvements so I fired off some suggestions. A bit pricey compared to other SGs, but it comes with some nice extra features. The onboard DC/DC converter is a particularly nice touch imo, final insurance policy against voltage fluctuations.

Finally got a HAS so once I get a power supply for it, I'll be able to actually compare the CBOX to something else!

 

[kinooshi823]

Been away for a while, great discussion going here. I've been using my CBOX 4.0 (2021-04-03-DJF main PCB with 2021-05-12-DJF JAMMA PCB) for several weeks, some thoughts below.

-Still the only SG I've seen with built-in S-video output

-Button remap works for USB and SNK controller ports; I use this feature daily

-PGM, MVS, CPS2, Psikyo boards all work fine. Some games require the stereo/mono switch to be one way or the other.

RGB repositioning circuit (SYNC button, H-POS, V-POS knobs) works and is especially useful for PGM games, BUT -- there's something not fully sorted with the circuit design. Image drifts sloooooowly for the first 10 minutes or so before settling into place; occasional 1px jitter happens for a few seconds once in a while. Not very noticeable while playing shmups, but pretty noticeable on still backgrounds. Luckily most games don't seem to need it.

Overall -- dece unit, obviously the maker is doing incremental improvements so I fired off some suggestions. A bit pricey compared to other SGs, but it comes with some nice extra features. The onboard DC/DC converter is a particularly nice touch imo, final insurance policy against voltage fluctuations.

Finally got a HAS so once I get a power supply for it, I'll be able to actually compare the CBOX to something else!

My cbox arrives tomorrow so I get to see how it works for me. I will post pics of the inside since I said I would a while back.

 

[kinooshi823]

Ok cool.

I know what you mean about mame. As good as mame (or MiSTer) is, they are not exactly the same as the real thing. When I find an emulated game that I like a lot, I usually buy the arcade PCB (if it's reasonable enough).

 

[kinooshi823]

Ok cool.

I know what you mean about mame. As good as mame (or MiSTer) is, they are not exactly the same as the real thing. When I find an emulated game that I like a lot, I usually buy the arcade PCB (if it's reasonable enough).

So in testing this here are my observations..composite works ok, s-video on this is better. Component here didn't work on my tv even though my tv supports it, maybe with an OSSC. I also haven't tried out the mega drive 2 port although I don't have that cable but will get later on. My jamma extender didn't work with this for some reason. Jamma slot on this is pretty tight. Being able to customize buttons is a pretty neat feature. Sound button on the jamma connector can distort sound. The side with the inputs for the rainbow cables for kick harness is cool but obviously I would need to wire them for my games. No overheat of the sort. Looks pretty clean on the inside. Also, ps3 controllers didn't work for me. My old 360 street fighter 4 fightstick did work and the neo geo pad I have. No bad for what it is. but that is it from me messing with it so far. Also, I did need to raise the voltage a bit to get my tekken 4 working. Moving the image around with the knobs was useful when using composite. This doesn't work with s-video although I didn't need to.

 

[GeorgeSpinner]

The md2 connector is the one to use. You will get the best image output from that.

 

[GeorgeSpinner]

So in testing this here are my observations..composite works ok, s-video on this is better. Component here didn't work on my tv even though my tv supports it, maybe with an OSSC. I also haven't tried out the mega drive 2 port although I don't have that cable but will get later on. My jamma extender didn't work with this for some reason. Jamma slot on this is pretty tight. Being able to customize buttons is a pretty neat feature. Sound button on the jamma connector can distort sound. The side with the inputs for the rainbow cables for kick harness is cool but obviously I would need to wire them for my games. No overheat of the sort. Looks pretty clean on the inside. Also, ps3 controllers didn't work for me. My old 360 street fighter 4 fightstick did work and the neo geo pad I have. No bad for what it is. but that is it from me messing with it so far. Also, I did need to raise the voltage a bit to get my tekken 4 working. Moving the image around with the knobs was useful when using composite. This doesn't work with s-video although I didn't need to.

Also, I think you wouldn't use the sound button unless your PCB specifically supports it (MVS).
Jamma standard is mono.

I'm glad it's working pretty well for you.
I'm using mine more and more lately

 

[Bigblue709]

I was examining the components on my CBOX and noticed that I appear to have fried the -5V trace leading to the blade cable.

None of my PCBs use the -5V pin. However, not long after purchasing this supergun, I carelessly powered on the unit with a mis-aligned JAMMA connector; I suspect this may have been the cause of the damage.

Here are some photos. Easy enough to repair with a short length of wire (or a fuse? Lol).