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Conversion of single layer Taito Cup Finals PCB to something else?

Hello everyone, can you tell me which programmer was used to convert the taito cup to gunlock?
 
The sound won't work properly so there's no point doing the conversion. Most games don't work properly on the hardware due to sound issues, it's covered in the last few pages of the thread.
 
Ace` said:
The sound won't work properly so there's no point doing the conversion. Most games don't work properly on the hardware due to sound issues, it's covered in the last few pages of the thread.
Click to expand...
Hello dear, what pcb do you use? I have a taito cup finals, identical to the one used by the user my pinball (I understand from what I read that the conversion was successful for him). I wonder then if I try to perform the conversion, do you think it doesn't work?
 
Casaborg said:
Hello dear, what pcb do you use? I have a taito cup finals, identical to the one used by the user my pinball (I understand from what I read that the conversion was successful for him). I wonder then if I try to perform the conversion, do you think it doesn't work?
Click to expand...
What game you want to play on your football board ?
 
Hello how are you, I read the entire thread and from what I understand only my pinballs had a successful conversion to rayforce. How can this be? It would be great if he could clarify. The pcb that I have is attached in the following photos. Now I am disappointed as I may not succeed in converting
 

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Casaborg said:
Hello how are you, I read the entire thread and from what I understand only my pinballs had a successful conversion to rayforce. How can this be? It would be great if he could clarify. The pcb that I have is attached in the following photos. Now I am disappointed as I may not succeed in converting
Click to expand...
Yes , this game rayforce aka (GunLock) is working to be made on your pcb .

Notes are here

You need these chips :

Eeproms at -10
6 x 27c800
6 x 27c020
2 x 27c160
1 x GAL22V10 this on -15 not on-25

Ps : check this section too . Thanks -> https://www.arcade-projects.com/forums/introductions.56/

Cheers :happy:
 
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AlxUnderBase said:
Yes , this game rayforce aka (GunLock) is working to be made on your pcb .

Notes are here

You need these chips :

Eeproms at -10
6 x 27c800
6 x 27c020
2 x 27c160
1 x GAL22V10 this on -15 not on-25

Ps : check this section too . Thanks -> https://www.arcade-projects.com/forums/introductions.56/

Cheers :happy:
Click to expand...
Thank you very much but I have a doubt, from what was said in the last pages that the sound worked badly. Or is it that they used a different pcb? I understand that it is the same as mine, so why in two cases, there is even a sample video that there is a problem with the conversion?
 
Ok, its time for an update. :) I have gotten A LOT of messages regarding these conversions and some of them seem to be suggesting I've made this all up..

So here goes in trying to summarise what I've got working and what I think is a worthwhile conversion and yes sound does work. Is it perfect, probably not yet, but it certainly is worth doing from a shit footy board.. I did share all the information I could on this thread to try and explain what was possible from day 1, and it was an ongoing project, maybe some of it got lost in the pages as some messages from people seemed very confused.. I will update the original conversion info with all the later info on higher 4M game rom pals and the recent additional sound stuff I've worked out.

BUT firstly, a disclaimer, which I guess I should have said to begin with!!! lol,

"This conversion is for fun and to understand the hardware in greater depth, I am sharing what I got to work along with all the tech details I can in and in as much detail as possible, but it will be technical and questions via pm might not get answered if the info is already covered here. If you can't get it to work on your board then its NOT my fault and I am not making shit up. Thanks :)"

So, onwards, 2 videos to share with graphics working and sound:

Gunlock -> https://www.instagram.com/p/CoriyjkIiUf/
Elevator Action Returns -> https://www.instagram.com/tv/Co7FM0woIkP

Info to add on the main conversion details post, but shared here first.

- 4M Pal.

For elevator action returns I wrote a new pal to get the larger game roms to work. Some later games have 4Mbit rom x 4 instead of 2mb (gunlock) or 1mb (footy). If you need this I can send you a chip. The chip fits into socket IC29. There isn't any additional address lines to connect or modify between the pal and game roms, taito already added everything. Once this pal is installed then you can leave it in for all games. ie it works for everything 1mb 2mb and 4mb. (This Pal is to do with Game roms NOT SOUIND!!! Please don't ask me about why this pal is needed, or why it doesn't make the SOUND work!!! Read the thread!!)

- Additional Sound conversion and changes.

After seeing some odd behaviour on light bringer I spent a lot of time looking at the Ensonic hardware on different platforms along with various schematics found online. I deduced the following which improves the sound access. I discussed this earlier in the thread before investigating it (need to find the post) on v2 game sound system having some missing sounds and/or sounds not playing correctly.

So The Chip labelled 5505 is called the OTIS chip and has outputs !RAS (pin31) and !DBUS (pin30) The !RAS line is fed to the MB8421 IO/RAM chip at IC20 pin1. This is the !CS line for the L eft part of the chip. the chip is 2 devices in 1 (Left and Right) This link represents the connection for v1 sound. However on v2 sound the link needs changing to be !DBUS instead.

See below for the jumper to add and the trace to cut

IMG_5898 2.JPG


I also found that with this change the PAL at IC16 should be changed to D29-17-1

Making these 2 changes should help with certain sound/music stall issues being resolved and generally better v2 sound operation (see videos). Also it is important to get the correct PAL at IC14 to. This should be D66-09 and should be checked that it is programmed correctly ( Many people have done this wrong and thought sound was broken) . Again if you need this chip I can send you one correctly programmed. (Please don't tell me the chip doesn't need to be this version or that and you can use some shit chip from china...) See below

IMG_5901.JPG
IMG_5897.JPG


Hope this help get more boards converted. :) Again if you need pals to use then get in touch.
 
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mypinballs said:
Ok, its time for an update. :) I have gotten A LOT of messages regarding these conversions and some of them seem to be suggesting I've made this all up..

So here goes in trying to summarise what I've got working and what I think is a worthwhile conversion and yes sound does work. Is it perfect, probably not yet, but it certainly is worth doing from a shit footy board.. I did share all the information I could on this thread to try and explain what was possible from day 1, and it was an ongoing project, maybe some of it got lost in the pages as some messages from people seemed very confused.. I will update the original conversion info with all the later info on higher 4M game rom pals and the recent additional sound stuff I've worked out.

BUT firstly, a disclaimer, which I guess I should have said to begin with!!! lol,

"This conversion is for fun and to understand the hardware in greater depth, I am sharing what I got to work along with all the tech details I can in and in as much detail as possible, but it will be technical and questions via pm might not get answered if the info is already covered here. If you can't get it to work on your board then its NOT my fault and I am not making shit up. Thanks :)"

So, onwards, 2 videos to share with graphics working and sound:

Gunlock -> https://www.instagram.com/p/CoriyjkIiUf/
Elevator Action Returns -> https://www.instagram.com/tv/Co7FM0woIkP

Info to add on the main conversion details post, but shared here first.

- 4M Pal.

For elevator action returns I wrote a new pal to get the larger game roms to work. Some later games have 4Mbit rom x 4 instead of 2mb (gunlock) or 1mb (footy). If you need this I can send you a chip. The chip fits into socket IC29. There isn't any additional address lines to connect or modify between the pal and game roms, taito already added everything. Once this pal is installed then you can leave it in for all games. ie it works for everything 1mb 2mb and 4mb. (This Pal is to do with Game roms NOT SOUIND!!! Please don't ask me about why this pal is needed, or why it doesn't make the SOUND work!!! Read the thread!!)

- Additional Sound conversion and changes.

After seeing some odd behaviour on light bringer I spent a lot of time looking at the Ensonic hardware on different platforms along with various schematics found online. I deduced the following which improves the sound access. I discussed this earlier in the thread before investigating it (need to find the post) on v2 game sound system having some missing sounds and/or sounds not playing correctly.

So The Chip labelled 5505 is called the OTIS chip and has outputs !RAS (pin31) and !DBUS (pin30) The !RAS line is fed to the MB8421 IO/RAM chip at IC20 pin1. This is the !CS line for the L eft part of the chip. the chip is 2 devices in 1 (Left and Right) This link represents the connection for v1 sound. However on v2 sound the link needs changing to be !DBUS instead.

See below for the jumper to add and the trace to cut

IMG_5898 2.JPG


I also found that with this change the PAL at IC16 should be changed to D29-17-1

Making these 2 changes should help with certain sound/music stall issues being resolved and generally better v2 sound operation (see videos). Also it is important to get the correct PAL at IC14 to. This should be D66-09 and should be checked that it is programmed correctly ( Many people have done this wrong and thought sound was broken) . Again if you need this chip I can send you one correctly programmed. (Please don't tell me the chip doesn't need to be this version or that and you can use some shit chip from china...) See below

IMG_5901.JPG
IMG_5897.JPG


Hope this help get more boards converted. :) Again if you need pals to use then get in touch.
Click to expand...
This is how an champion looks like ! Thank you even if i dont have any donor to proceed for any of this !
 
Hi. What do I need for converting a Taito F3 Cup Finals to Grid Seeker and Riding Fight? I have 2 boards.

EDIT: they both are white single layer

EDIT 2: also, can a Taito Super Cup Finals White + Expand be converted to Light Bringer and Gunlock-RayForce? I would prefer this type of board because the original games used second board, but the orange + expand series.
 
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Hi again, I have made a Light Bringer fully working conversion, but I have problems with the ENSONIQ sound. I have made the fix of incommunicating the trace and adding the new cable for V2 sound games. I have burnt D29-17-1 and D66-09 PALs. The FX sound is so extremely low, and I detect the first half of the music intro doesn't sound. Is something more needed?

EDIT: I have seen Rayforce on White board has a fix in D29-17-1 PAL, with a resistor between pin 2 and 4. Maybe this is for making the D53-12 PAL to work

EDIT 2: as seen in the photo, the resistor is Purple - Green - Brown - Gold, technically is 750ohm. I'll investigate this fix for using the D53-12 PAL as seen in White board Rayforce.
 

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Hi again. For anyone who is going to try a conversion to a Taito F3 white motherboard V2 sound type game, Taito Cup Finals and Super Cup Finals are not good choices, even making the fixes exposed here.

Only are good for V1 sound type games like Arabian Magic, Riding Fight and Grid Seeker (if there were a replica of ROM17 PCB for this last one or the 2 corrected mask roms for avoiding it). I have just made a Arabian Magic and is really good, no sound fixes needed.

I have reunited information about the V2 sound type games in white board, and the 2 registered motherboard white games (Light Bringer and Rayforce) are mounted on the "Taito Cup Finals" board but are specifically modified for working with those V2 games. There are many differences in sound traces in the photos I have archieved to see.

So I would recommend to anyone new in this thread that those 2 games are better in cartridge version because Taito F3 modular board is ready for V2 sound type games, Elevator Action Returns included.

There are many sound lines missing in any V2 game in those boards.
 
Can you elaborate why it wouldn't work? I was thinking on converting one of my Taito Cup finals PCBs to something nice.
 
Darksoft said:
Can you elaborate why it wouldn't work? I was thinking on converting one of my Taito Cup finals PCBs to something nice.
Click to expand...
First of all, in a previous post of mine, I show a resistor fix between pins 2 and 4 of the D29-17-1 pal. Those boards have the 27c4001 lines corrected for the motorola, but there are many traces that change their distribuition in the sound section.

I made a few looks between a Cup Finals in my hand and the Rayforce white board registered by jammaarcade.

https://wiki.pldarchive.co.uk/index.php?title=Ray_Force_(Taito_F3)

Only one person who has that Rayforce white board version could "de-trace" and see the real differences, and for the high price of that board...I bet nobody wants to risk, so in my opinion, is better not to waste time and resources and center the Super Cup Final games on other V1 sound type games.
 
Not much risk they could use a multi meter to figure it out, but I agree with just sticking to V1 games far less trouble. I've given up on getting V2 games working, I wasted far too much time on that already. :)

Sadly one of my cup finals makes an awful noise and it seems to be one of the esoniq chips that aren't easy to find.
 
Ace` said:
Not much risk they could use a multi meter to figure it out, but I agree with just sticking to V1 games far less trouble. I've given up on getting V2 games working, I wasted far too much time on that already. :)

Sadly one of my cup finals makes an awful noise and it seems to be one of the esoniq chips that aren't easy to find.
Click to expand...
I have been in your place. 3 weeks fighting with 2 conversions to V2 games, no cigar. Awuful noises, missing sound lines...

Definitely there is more to change on that Cup Finals boards, but I am happy to see that I am not the only one who thinks is better use them for V1 games.
 
as I already explained some v2 sound games will work just fine on single layer boards. If you can’t get it to work though oh well I gave everyone my info inc videos. see above..

Light bringer was never a game with working sound here yet though see posts from years back when I tried it originally

There is still more to learn and this whole thread was about experimenting and making use of shit footy boards which until this were best in the bin :)
 
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