Early stages of my first real arcade project.

[ekorz]

Ok here's my take... There's two ways to think about this, and either way you're learning stuff.

1) you're building a cab, which as those above have said you'd be better off buying and fixing up something. It'll hold it's value. You'll be learning about Candy Cabs, restoration, and the like. Or,
2) the cab is building you, by which I mean the project is the means to an end, that end being -- knowing more shit. You learn by doing, so fuck it - do it.

I cannot speak about #1, but holy shit these guys can. I can't wait to jump into that some day, but alas I have no space, so I have no actual cabs. But I can speak a lot about #2, as I've used many projects as an excuse to learn something new.

The mentality here is different though - I walk in expecting my first try to be crap. And guess what? It's always crap. Lots of people go into a cab project (especially MAME cab builders) where it's their first attempt at pretty much every aspect of the thing. And it comes out looking totally retarded and embarrassing.

I routinely find that I'm lacking in these aspects
-correct tools
-design
-physical ability to use even the shitty tools I did have
-poor 'scope' i.e. I had no idea how many steps it would actually take, or how long each would take

Case and point, here's my first attempt at an arcade stick -- padhacked xbox360 in poplar, took me 6 weeks:

SOOOO bulky. Joinery is crap. Finish is crap. That wiring - oh god, and the hot glue... But you know what? It was my 'alpha' build for a reason. I had no woodworking skills, no soldering skills, no knowledge of the hardware (it's a Happ stick with a super stiff spring in a light box... lol it literally tips the whole thing when you try to move the joystick)

But I went into the project knowing I'd basically throw it away.

Here's attempt #10, took maybe 3 weekends. Bolivian Rosewood with a ps360+, lacquered finish.
+a several hundred dollars in tools
+reworking the design
+practice at using the woodworking shop
+a nice 'flow' to the construction process

and there's still room to improve (I need to stop using magnets on the base, it was clever but doesn't work that well). Along the way I picked up some 3d-printing (note the joystick mounting bracket), learned a lot of soldering (even though this uses none), tried several ideas for the joints (and came out liking miter joints) and finally have something worth showing off and using all the time. No way was this thing happening on my first build, though, not matter how much research and planning I invested.

So my point is, there's a really good way to make a build-from-scratch you'll keep forever (stuff like @twistedsymphony suggested, make a modular CP, or for my money you might want to scrap the PVM and RGB Mod a consumer sony - larger picture and less weight, less depth, etc.) but there is zero possibility in my mind of getting all that right on your first try. As such - build this thing quickly, cheaply, and just get the experience of having done all the steps to this multi-disciplinary process.

So, if you're using this projects as a means to learn, build this thing and expect to re-do it one or two more times. You'll be learning so much stuff along the way, there's no way to make it perfect first-try.

 

[ekorz]

Anybody know about woods? I am looking into sourcing the lumber for my build. Seems like the main options are: pine, fir, and hardwoods. From a quick dig, fir seem like best choice. Treated or untreated? Does one kind take paint better?

and to the tune of my note above -- attempt #1 should probably be cheap home-depot pine with MDF or MDO on the outside.

 

[twistedsymphony]

I routinely find that I'm lacking in these aspects
...-poor 'scope' i.e. I had no idea how many steps it would actually take, or how long each would take

"scope" isn't really the steps to accomplish the goal, that would be planning

"scope" is the goals itself. which brings up a few pitfalls that most MAME cabs and other build fall into.

1. "scope creep" - meaning that you keep adding on more and more features or goals for your project beyond what you originally set out to do. So for instance if you set out to make a JAMMA cab, and then later decided to make it JVS compliant as well... and the later you decided to also make it work with Fast IO too, that would be scope creep... setting your goal line further and further away from where you are before finishing the original goals. This happens a lot in software development where the product never gets done because you keep adding features to it instead of finishing the original design.

2. building a "jack of all trades" - SO many MAME cabs decide that they want to support 4 players and have separate dedicated 4 and 8 way sticks, and a spinner, and a track ball, and light guns and a steering wheel... trying to make the cab too to much you end up with a cab that "can" do everything but ultimately does NOTHING well. The worst are the people who build say an upright cab and then include the ability to play DVDs or something... like anyone is going to want to stand in front of a cab to watch a movie. Similarly no one is going to want to reach over a joystick to use a spinner. As your building ask yourself "would they ever consider doing this in a real cab that is publicly playable?" and if the answer is "no" then you should consider not doing it. This goes not just for the physical design but also the usability of your setup by whoever plays it.

There's a term we use in Software development called "MVP" or "Minimum Viable Product" meaning you spec out what is the absolute most strip down/shortest path from where we are to a completed/usable product, no bells and whistles to speak of but accomplishes the main goal. A lot of times thinking about this and then building that FIRST before you expand your scope gives you a great foundation to build from and provides you with an actual completed project sooner.

 

[rewrite]

Please don't be guy #2. That's all we ask.

But DO enjoy building if you go that route. Expect to learn a lot and make mistakes.

 

[ekorz]

@twistedsymphony there's scope creep for sure, but I guess I meant planning, sure. It's inexperience manifesting itself, what I'm trying to describe. Like, it's hard to know how to even plan for something you have no experience with. For example doing a drawing and "planning" your cut list is one thing. Then you set foot in a wood shop and wood-shoppy things start to go all wrong. Dull blades. Equip failure. Human error with a new tool. One thing leads to another and the "I'll do all my cuts today" plan turns into "I'm half done but screwed up the other half and need more wood now".

Please don't be guy #2. That's all we ask.

But DO enjoy building if you go that route. Expect to learn a lot and make mistakes.

see, different thoughts on it... I am all about projects for learning, so I use arcade as an excuse to learn, I'm #2 all day. That does mean I screw stuff up -- "sorry first couple NES PPUs, I didn't know how to desolder -- but I do now!!"

One day I'll buy a cab and do it right though @rewrite, don't worry!

Edit: oh, you meant twisted's #2. Yeah, I have no love for that guy with the shitty ass 45 button trackball + steering wheel MAME cab either! But he does help keep arcade supply shops in business!

 

[rewrite]

One day I'll buy a cab and do it right though @rewrite, don't worry!

Lol, I was talking more specifically about having 7 different control types on the control panel.

 

[cwx2]

There is a lot to address here I will try and break it down.

I have thought about trying to source a Blast but I am not at a point where I can commit to a cab. I am on second floor of apartment in the Bay Area and space is very limited (fyi my living space also has to accommodate a harp)The PVM is enough space hog as it is, another CRT would be a stretch let alone a cab. Also not every girl you bring back may be immediately down for arcade hobby stuff, my design could be stored in my closet if necessary.

I am only 25, so I am still kinda getting set up in life, might be moving around a bit for next few years. I am 3 months into a fullstack web development bootcamp right now so, scope creep, creating MVP’s, and POC’s with javascript is all I do when not on Arcade-Projects.com. I do not think I am asking too much of this project. And I am in no rush to complete it, it will take as long as it takes.

The reasons I decided to go the build my own route include:

• I am enjoying the process
• I wanted the most compact cab size, and smallest footprint possible.
• I have some experience and wish to further develop competencies in EE and carpentry.
• Cost (I got my 19” PVM $40 used for parts), yes candies are cheaper near here, but still not cheaper than I can get my parts.
• Modular pieces, Most everything can be swapped and moved around as needed.
• Bravado and bragging rights for doing something hard. Doubters, naysayers, and “maybe you should reconsider”-ers, just make me want to do said thing even more.
• Having something unique and I can be proud of. Candies are everywhere, I'll have something you never seen before.

I know I have laid out some aggressive goals, but I have already tempered some of my ambitions for the project, but that is only because I know more and am smarter(thanks to a lot of you), becoming smarter is a good consequence of falling short of an ambitious goal.

Based of some your guys advice I may first build a rough frame out of bare 2x4”s to hold the PVM and set the boardmaster on (MVP). Use that to hold me for the short term time horizon. I would actually kinda like the bare industrial look. Then hope a blast city is in my future, if not at a later time I can add the outer painted MDF boards, to pretty it up.

I care more about function than form, but like I said I enjoy working towards my dream piece.

At the end of the day I just want to comfortably play some games.

 

[twistedsymphony]

if cost and space are a concern then maybe keep an eye out for an Aero City. As I'm sure @rewrite can attest, they're quite compact, and tend to be fairly low-cost due to their smaller size and "utilitarian" look.

Blast City cabs are great because of the tri-sync monitor and 3.3V capable PSU which make them the most versatile cab for the money but an Aero City is probably the cheapest candy cab on the market and probably the most compact save for something like a Mini Cute or Dino-King cab.

For reference what are the dimensions of the cab you're building?
An Aero City is 26in wide and 37.5in deep.


I do get the whole "build yourself" idea. I've completely stripped and rebuild lots of cabs, built whole wiring harnesses from scratch and I build a lot of non-arcade stuff myself. For me though, I really just don't have the space or the patience for woodworking

 

[rewrite]

if cost and space are a concern then maybe keep an eye out for an Aero City. As I'm sure @rewrite can attest, they're quite compact, and tend to be fairly low-cost due to their smaller size and "utilitarian" look.

Blast City cabs are great because of the tri-sync monitor and 3.3V capable PSU which make them the most versatile cab for the money but an Aero City is probably the cheapest candy cab on the market and probably the most compact save for something like a Mini Cute or Dino-King cab.

For reference what are the dimensions of the cab you're building?
An Aero City is 26in wide and 37.5in deep.


I do get the whole "build yourself" idea. I've completely stripped and rebuild lots of cabs, built whole wiring harnesses from scratch and I build a lot of non-arcade stuff myself. For me though, I really just don't have the space or the patience for woodworking

The Aero is way smaller than I expected. Way way smaller. And on a really good day in CA, you can pick one up for $200. On an average day $4-500. The monitor tates too, not sure if that's something you want/need, but it's convenient.

Other good candidates are the Neo-19 and MVS25-U4 (I always mess up that cab's model). They're tiny, and super light. As an owner of both the Cute and Neo-19, I'd suggest the Neo-19 over the Mini Cute every day of the week. Lighter, better looking, has a normal-sized replaceable monitor. Also half the price or less when they do pop up. The MVS25-U4 is a lot cheaper than either, and just a gorgeous cab all around.

Blasts are hideous, (You heard me, @twistedsymphony, choose your weapon, let's fight, give me Taito or give me death, etc etc), get an AWSD if you're going the full 29" and want to stay cheap (or an NNC, but I'm trying to stay pro-Taito here). Also tri-res and 3.3V but you need a step-down converter if it has a stock Wei-Ya PSU.

And OP, I would like to contend your statement about girls and arcade cabs, because I've only ever gotten excited responses over mine. I'm sure if you had a tiny apartment full of wooden cabs you'd get a meh reaction, but I've never run into a negative experience from anyone over the candies, it's always excitement and wanting to know more about them. Neighbors, friends, dates, people buying XYZ I'm selling, always interested in them. They don't like the BVM's though, ha. "Have you considered just getting another flat-screen."

Plus, you don't want girls who you have to hide your hobby from anyway, or you'll end up like the guys on KLOV who're hiding purchases from their wives, etc .

 

[cwx2]

if cost and space are a concern then maybe keep an eye out for an Aero City. As I'm sure @rewrite can attest, they're quite compact, and tend to be fairly low-cost due to their smaller size and "utilitarian" look"

@rewrite where or who do I contact to inquirer further on sourcing an Aero near Oakland? Price?

Blast City cabs are great because of the tri-sync monitor and 3.3V capable PSU which make them the most versatile cab for the money but an Aero City is probably the cheapest candy cab on the market and probably the most compact save for something like a Mini Cute or Dino-King cab.

The only reason I would want a blast, is for MvC2 in 31k. But in light of all of your advice and the fact I can still run it in 15k, you got me really got me thinking.

For reference what are the dimensions of the cab you're building?
An Aero City is 26in wide and 37.5in deep.

I am still only drafting, but those are almost the same specs of my current design.

Width - My whole hide in the closet thing turns on the fact that my closet is 26" and some change. I want to accommodate my board master control box which is 650mm(25.59 inches) plus the connector hangs off side. Arcade-otaku lists Aero as 660mm wide. Either way its tight, but at least with a homemade design I can accommodate, this design parameter.

Depth - This does not matter as much, like previously mentioned with a CRT cab there is a balancing act of depth, distance, and monitor angle. I'd say my most compact design could be about 32" deep, and the most ergonomic is more like 38" deep (Those rays gotta have some tube to gun through, yo).

I do get the whole "build yourself" idea. I've completely stripped and rebuild lots of cabs, built whole wiring harnesses from scratch and I build a lot of non-arcade stuff myself. For me though, I really just don't have the space or the patience for woodworking

A local library branch near me in Berkeley, CA will rent just about any power tool or accessory you could imagine, and has space I feel to knock out a project like this, it may take loading a half finished cab into the back of an SUV and coming back another day, but again thats learning and enjoying the process. I have been certified and worked with just about every kind of tool in a woodshop before, and I have a close friend who is very skilled and experienced with wood shop, he will be working on building some of his own furniture this fall, so he can help prevent snags.

If one plans, plans some more, and really spends time meditating and visualizing on each sequence of the steps in the build, then when the time comes to execute one can in a sense put their mind on cruise control because one has seen the events unfold in their mind's eye so many times. Of course keeping supreme awareness of the unrelenting power tools.


Either way it seems I have more research, planning, and challenges to overcome.

Thanks again and always for all the insight.

 

[rewrite]

Craigslist, KLOV, AO, here, and shmups are all good places to buy a cab. Throw up a WTB thread, wait a week or two, snag a cab. Aero's aren't hugely popular, and they're super common so I can't imagine it would take long. Plus they're all metal so you can easily repair anything damaged unlike the plastic cabs. And the monitor chassis is widely documented so you could even buy one with a dead monitor and do very well.

A week ago I could've pointed you to one in Vegas for $200, but I may have bought 3/4 of it earlier this week... If you want just a metal shell for almost nothing I could point you to it, and I have maybe half the remaining parts you'd need (monitor included), but it's probably cheaper and easier to just buy a working one.

 

[cwx2]

deleted

The Aero is way smaller than I expected. Way way smaller. And on a really good day in CA, you can pick one up for $200. On an average day $4-500. The monitor tates too, not sure if that's something you want/need, but it's convenient.
Other good candidates are the Neo-19 and MVS25-U4 (I always mess up that cab's model). They're tiny, and super light. As an owner of both the Cute and Neo-19, I'd suggest the Neo-19 over the Mini Cute every day of the week. Lighter, better looking, has a normal-sized replaceable monitor. Also half the price or less when they do pop up. The MVS25-U4 is a lot cheaper than either, and just a gorgeous cab all around.

get an AWSD if you're going the full 29" and want to stay cheap (or an NNC, but I'm trying to stay pro-Taito here). Also tri-res and 3.3V but you need a step-down converter if it has a stock Wei-Ya PSU.


And OP, I would like to contend your statement about girls and arcade cabs, because I've only ever gotten excited responses over mine. I'm sure if you had a tiny apartment full of wooden cabs you'd get a meh reaction, but I've never run into a negative experience from anyone over the candies, it's always excitement and wanting to know more about them. Neighbors, friends, dates, people buying XYZ I'm selling, always interested in them. They don't like the BVM's though, ha. "Have you considered just getting another flat-screen."

Plus, you don't want girls who you have to hide your hobby from anyway, or you'll end up like the guys on KLOV who're hiding purchases from their wives, etc .

CABS:

Who do I talk to or where do I look about getting an Aero in the San Francisco Bay Area?

would this be an acceptable step down transformer?

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000J1ANSY/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

GIRLS:

You are right that was a contentious statement. My PVM's casing is beat to shit and looks like trash. The candies are definitely sexier. But see now thats got me down the cost rabbit hole because the nicer Aero I try and source its going to cost more, plus years of use, nicks, and dings can not really be cleaned up and if it is going to look beat might as well just be 2x4's.

I have mostly had positive experience even with ratty gear, because I've found most girls just like guys who are into something doesn't matter what it is. One of my finer catches for sure got a bit turned off by the whole thing, we knew we were not serious so it was not an issue, like you said if they are not down for the cause then it is for the best. Plus as you said most are really receptive, but if it's initially hidden away, there is an element of surprise added when and if the reveal happens.

This might be a good time if you are out there for a female board member to provide insight.....does this topic warrant a new thread for discussion?

 

[rewrite]

See my previous post as to where to find them.

I have a few of these, they work great:
https://www.amazon.com/VCT-VT-500J-...qid=1506203670&sr=1-3&keywords=100v+step+down

Nicks/dings/etc can be taken care of no problem. It's just thin sheet metal unlike say the Net City cabs which are plastic and you can't repair as easily. If the paint isn't entirely there, or isn't white enough just strip it (citristrip gel and a half a day's work) and paint it with appliance epoxy ($4/can). It's easier to work with than wood for sure in regards to painting. Don't even need to sand or seal afterwards as the epoxy leaves a nice shiny top coat on its own.


I think most people appreciate when others have a passion for something. What it is usually doesn't matter as much as how passionate they are.

Bit of snob element here perhaps, but element of surprise that's a wooden box vs a fancy candy cabinet would likely have a different reaction. Maybe not vastly different, but maybe the difference between a 7 reaction and a 8 or something. Who knows, not me, I don't have both! Maybe making it is way more impressive. *shrugs*

 

[ekorz]

If one plans, plans some more, and really spends time meditating and visualizing on each sequence of the steps in the build, then when the time comes to execute one can in a sense put their mind on cruise control because one has seen the events unfold in their mind's eye so many times. Of course keeping supreme awareness of the unrelenting power tools.

I wish you luck with this! Especially at public work spaces, with shared tools, my experience has been more this:

"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth." - Mike Tyson Table Saw

Unless you're familiar with the space, the tools, the process, etc. then it's absolutely guaranteed that something will not go according to plan. "Measure twice cut once" turns into "ok so the tool I was planning on using is out of order, but hey that circular saw could work if I just..."

I'd plan that "MVP" and see how it goes, and if you kill it - just build a v2 that's better. That's better than trying to bite off too much and either leaning on your friend (and not learning) or just flat out failing, breaking stuff, or injuring yourself.

 

[SNK-NEO-GEO]

"Also not every girl you bring back may be immediately down for arcade hobby stuff, my design could be stored in my closet if necessary."

It is your place and inside are the things you like. You incorporate the girl to your living style and not the other way around. If the girl does not like what she sees inside your place, show her the door ASAP.




Welcome to Bonus Stage my fellow MAN - Never marry, Don't live in a common law state, make the other person pay 50% of all the bills, if you end up having kids, do DNA test on each kid. Sounds crazy right???..Not by a long shot...

 

[rewrite]

do DNS test on each kid

It's true, I thought my daughter's domain was found with Google's free DNS 8.8.8.8, but she was ACTUALLY found by my ISP's DNS T_T.

 

[SNK-NEO-GEO]

Use the FQDN

 

[zero238]

It's getting too real for me. Have to go back living under a rock.

 

[cwx2]

I have actually already learned something new by trying to attempt a custom build. This free software SketchUp, this is actually a pretty cool free design software, took like 20 mins to figure out. So even if the build is a miserable fail, I have something to celebrate.

I wish you luck with this! Especially at public work spaces, with shared tools, my experience has been more this:

"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth." - Mike Tyson Table Saw

It is my understanding you rent or check out tools, that you can take to your own private working space, or they have space to work there if you desire. If that whole thing is shit, my back up is the UC Berkeley's campus wood shop. I was certified at their shop one semester but the fees were pretty hefty, but there is for sure good space, fine tools, and knowledgeable people around, but I think I can pull this off the low budget way.

EDIT: Added pic with a few angles of most recent design implementing some of the recent discussion.

Similar to how a programmer may try and write a program in the fewest lines possible, I tried to use as few cuts as possible and minimize odd angles. All the wood bits in the sketch are either 2x4" 4x4" or 1" mdf. While drawing this one I actually had an epiphany on how to implement easy monitor rotation with this design.

Demensions: 21"x38"x45"
width - the cabinet itself is 21" but like mentioned the boardmaster will hang off about 2.5" inches on each side. (26")
depth - 36.5in. There is wiggle room for redrafting here. I could prolly shave an inch or two off the depth and still keep good ergonomics.


EDIT 2: Development notes, and minimum viable product images

Minimum viable product materials )
6 - 2 x 4 x 18.75" boards
4 - 4 x 4 x 9" boards
2 - 2 x 4 x 23" boards
2 - 2 x 4 x 31" boards
wood glue, nails, screws, hardware

milestone 0 ) 1 - 1 x 4 x 18.75 and 4 - wheels with locks
milestone 1 ) shell, mdf or to be determined material.
milestone 2 ) paint, white with green and pink accents
milestone 3 ) lots of little added things for UI/UX like, a front or side access door for easier access to pcb, mount mini wheels for my tate idea, internal shelving.

 

[twistedsymphony]

There are quite a few good Free 3D modeling packages out there since a lot of people use them for 3D printing.

others you might consider checking out is Fusion360