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defor

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So I've been playing around with a design (on paper so far) over the last few months, and was wondering if anyone else was interested...
The idea is to create a replacement filter board for the the Naomi or Naomi 2, wiith dedicated supergun/consolization components built onto it.

- Power would be provided by a PicoPSU plugged directly into an ATX plug on the new filter board. The barrel jack for external power would be mounted through the pcb.
- Either a Sega JVS board Type 1 would be condensed down to fit directly on the board, with a socket for a donor 315-6291 chip, or a JVS IO replacement would be used.
- Walsdawg standard DB25 controller ports (easily adaptable to DB15 joysticks)
- USB decoders for modern controllers
- VGA + RCA Audio
- HDMI + Embedded Audio
- Internally mounted Raspberry PI + LCD menu for game selection
- External RJ45 port for connecting to NetDimm
- Maple Bus Dreamcast ports Installation points

Thoughts?
 

twistedsymphony

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I like this concept some thoughts...

things I like
+simple clean replacement PCB for consolization
+I like the idea of an ATX plug on the filterboard
+definitely keep VGA + RCA audio
+definitely like the maple buss installation points

things I don't like
-HDMI + embedded audio would add a lot of cost, and there are many ways to accomplish this, some of which sucks. Maybe leave this out to reduce cost and let people choose a conversion solution that works best for them.

-USB decoders for modern controllers would again, add some cost and there are many way to accomplish this some of which suck. Maybe you could pick a popular usb encoder product and provide a pin-header installation for it that would make it easily expandable while also reducing the costs for those who don't want/need this

-"Walsdawg standard DB25 controller ports (easily adaptable to DB15 joysticks)" - why not just use DB15 joystick ports?

things I would suggest be done differently
~"Either a Sega JVS board Type 1 would be condensed down to fit directly on the board, with a socket for a donor 315-6291 chip, or a JVS IO replacement would be used." - that seems way too complicated. We have the OpenJVS project which uses an ATiny to function as a JVS I/O board, why not just use that? you'd be looking at $2-$4 component cost and an extremely compact solution build right into the filterboard as opposed to hacking up or trying to squeeze a $100 I/O board on this thing.

~"Internally mounted Raspberry PI + LCD menu for game selection" - i'd suggest just having a GPIO/Ethernet pass-through on the filterboard so that you could mount the Pi internally and then plug the pi-plate onto the filterboard from the outside, similarly you could get a pin-header extension cable and remote mount the Pi plate somewhere if you didn't want it attached directly to the NAOMI. this would meant that the Pi would remain separate from the filterboard, again just for those who want it and greatly simplify the integration. Some people will want to continue using carts or SD cards.

Other ideas:

-a proper power switch
-a proper reset switch (for when net-booting gets hung up)
-dipswitches for region and resolution selection clearly marked on the filterboard itself
-serial ports for card readers or some kind of integration for winteriscomming's card emulator.
 

defor

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twistedsymphony said:
-HDMI + embedded audio would add a lot of cost, and there are many ways to accomplish this, some of which sucks. Maybe leave this out to reduce cost and let people choose a conversion solution that works best for them.
I've got a solution that should run ~25$ in parts.
What do you think about Component outputs instead of hdmi?
I'm looking at some kind of video conversion, because neither 15k and VGA are that great to integrate with a modern home theatre system.



twistedsymphony said:
-USB decoders for modern controllers would again, add some cost and there are many way to accomplish this some of which suck. Maybe you could pick a popular usb encoder product and provide a pin-header installation for it that would make it easily expandable while also reducing the costs for those who don't want/need this
I was considering implementing a basic HID adapter on this thought process- a modern USB arcade stick or gamepad would work, as will just about anything that can be converted to USB.



twistedsymphony said:
-"Walsdawg standard DB25 controller ports (easily adaptable to DB15 joysticks)" - why not just use DB15 joystick ports?
Because Naomi uses Analog on a lot of games, it would make sense to keep this capability, no?



twistedsymphony said:
~"Either a Sega JVS board Type 1 would be condensed down to fit directly on the board, with a socket for a donor 315-6291 chip, or a JVS IO replacement would be used." - that seems way too complicated. We have the OpenJVS project which uses an ATiny to function as a JVS I/O board, why not just use that? you'd be looking at $2-$4 component cost and an extremely compact solution build right into the filterboard as opposed to hacking up or trying to squeeze a $100 I/O board on this thing.
Right now, analog support via OpenJVS seems .... nonexistant, but if it can be made to work I'd be totally onboard with using that instead of the official IO
Also, the currently rising prices on the Type1 IO are problematic for that route- this is why I was looking already at going with OpenJVS or similar.



twistedsymphony said:
~"Internally mounted Raspberry PI + LCD menu for game selection" - i'd suggest just having a GPIO/Ethernet pass-through on the filterboard so that you could mount the Pi internally and then plug the pi-plate onto the filterboard from the outside, similarly you could get a pin-header extension cable and remote mount the Pi plate somewhere if you didn't want it attached directly to the NAOMI. this would meant that the Pi would remain separate from the filterboard, again just for those who want it and greatly simplify the integration. Some people will want to continue using carts or SD cards.
I was thinking to utilize an RPIZero mounted to the inside of the filterboard, with the LCD and keypad for it mounted on the outside.




twistedsymphony said:
-a proper power switch

-a proper reset switch (for when net-booting gets hung up)
-dipswitches for region and resolution selection clearly marked on the filterboard itself
-serial ports for card readers or some kind of integration for winteriscomming's card emulator.
DEFINITELY to all of these- that was somewhat given- with putting the PSU internal, having the power and reset switches included makes perfect sense.
I'd also prefer to use either smallish toggle or at least levered DIP switches to make switching them easier.

I was thinking to retain the MIDI and RS422 pin headers from the original design.


I know this sounds like a lot of defense on my part, I just wanted to explain where I was coming from...
 

twistedsymphony

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All good points.

I haven't looked too far into the OpenJVS project but if it doesn't include analog it is open source and all the information as to the bit-space used by the analog pins is explained in the spec, so it could be added.

As for Pi Zero, for net-booting I don't believe it includes an eithernet port so that might be a non-starter for use with a net-boot setup unfortunately.
 

defor

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All good points.

I haven't looked too far into the OpenJVS project but if it doesn't include analog it is open source and all the information as to the bit-space used by the analog pins is explained in the spec, so it could be added.

As for Pi Zero, for net-booting I don't believe it includes an eithernet port so that might be a non-starter for use with a net-boot setup unfortunately.
Yep- that was my original thought- start with OpenJVS as is, and perhaps release it without analog, and then add once it's fully worked out maybe even.

the good thing is that the PI zero can have one added pretty simply:
http://raspi.tv/2015/ethernet-on-pi-zero-how-to-put-an-ethernet-port-on-your-pi
Which could just be on the filter board itself.

What were your thoughts on Component vs HDMI?
The HDMI converter I'd be using if I went that way is the same one used int he good model of the WII to HDMI adapter.. there's a thread somewhere on assembler games.

Also, Digital Audio- S/PDIF or TOSLINK .. would having this be of interest?
This could be added, but would require additional soldering onto the audio DAC of the naomi board, while all the previous mentioned parts are self-contained on the filter board.
 

defor

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Also been considering looking into an overlay menu instead of LCD for the RPI setup
 

nam9

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Also been considering looking into an overlay menu instead of LCD for the RPI setup
That would beat an LCD mounted on the end of the unit.
devtty has a nice solution for the RPi3 if you haven't seen this already.
An OSD would be the definitive solution though for sure...

Either way - great idea. You should see the pile of components I've amassed ahead of my own consolization project...
 

KalessinDB

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If by "anyone else is interested" you mean "anyone else wants to hire you to do this", then yes I am very interested :lol:

Following along to see what you come up with either way
 

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What were your thoughts on Component vs HDMI?
HDMI is the standard going forward for AV connections - i'd go with that.
Would be great to keep VGA to output unmolested video.

Bonus for me would be RGB + composite sync. Something Framemeister ready ;)
 

winteriscoming

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The idea of an OSD is pretty cool. How would that be handled technically, both in terms of controls and displaying on the screen in spite of a signal already? You got me thinking about it, even for a netbooting solution inside a cabinet.

A low tech method could maybe be some kind of video switch that allows VGA pass-through, but also RCA input from the RPi converted to VGA.

Assuming you'd have to use dedicated controls for the OSD and not built in JVS service buttons, you could have one button that brings up the OSD (i.e. switches video input to show RPi), and however many buttons wired to the RPi for necessary functionality. I don't know if there would be sync issues, but maybe something like this could work?
https://www.amazon.com/Composite-S-...r=1-1&keywords=1+composite+1+vga+in+1+vga+out

Maybe there are dedicated ICs or PCBs for this type of thing that I'm completely oblivious to?
 

defor

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If by "anyone else is interested" you mean "anyone else wants to hire you to do this", then yes I am very interested :lol:

Following along to see what you come up with either way
Well, I'm gonna do it ANYWAY for myself as existing examples of Naomi consolization are a bit messy or damaging to the console, I was just curious if anyone out there was interested in using the naomi in more of a home gaming environment than an arcade cab only installation, and had any recommendations or thoughts before i put it all together.



HDMI is the standard going forward for AV connections - i'd go with that.Would be great to keep VGA to output unmolested video.

Bonus for me would be RGB + composite sync. Something Framemeister ready ;)
Clearly, space is a premium on the filter board with everything I'm proposing to add, but is adding a mating mini-din connector the best option?


The idea of an OSD is pretty cool. How would that be handled technically, both in terms of controls and displaying on the screen in spite of a signal already? You got me thinking about it, even for a netbooting solution inside a cabinet
My original plan was to simply use a a MAX7456 on one (or all?) of the color channels - but then i realized it won't work past gamma as it's only good in the PAL/NTSC refresh range), but I'm thinking a much simpler solution exists, just as you are alluding to, wherein the video output could be switched from the naomi to the pi with a toggling "menu" button.


One question I have- I haven't played every Naomi game (far from it), but how many -- if any? games are 15k only?


Again, adding this onscreen menu would be pretty neat, but space is a factor, as is the question of actual necessity. Are people really encumbered by external PI setups, alternately, is this better handled by a custom replacement DIMM upper that adds the PI THERE?
 

defor

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If you haven't gathered by now, I'm treating this as a bit of brainstorming until I (or someone else who wants to do it) make such a design.
 

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Clearly, space is a premium on the filter board with everything I'm proposing to add, but is adding a mating mini-din connector the best option?
The smallest option for sure. A 3.5mm audio jack / VGA with a slide switch for H+V or CSync could cover all options (i.e. a built in sync combiner).
Custom cables easiet to work with and VGA is still fairly common on decent TV sets...

May be best to mock up connector placement to see how quickly you will run out of space.

Controller port options will also be a big discussion point... May be best to choose a modern standard (i.e. USB), but provide internal headers for those who require every possible control input.
Would say its fair to compromise on compatibility for the massive increase in convenience with a plug and play solution.
 

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I love the idea!

but...

Walsdawg standard DB25 controller ports (easily adaptable to DB15 joysticks)
A Jostick port Standard that is incompatible with 99% of the Joysticks around? :) :) :) :)

Why not a DB15 Standard Port with a "kick harness" (I know is not actually a kick) for the additional buttons? In case someone ever needs those additional buttons (I'm skeptical) You can easily adapt the DB15 + the "kick harness" into a propietary db25 port.
 

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A Jostick port Standard that is incompatible with 99% of the Joysticks around?
When you are talking Naomi you aren't simply talking sticks and buttons. The standard I used added the analog controls which is not represented on your standard fight stick. Ignoring analog controls eliminates a large amount of the Naomi library. An adapter can always be very easily made to change from db25 to db15. Or if room permits, include both.
 

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mmm that's right, i didn't think about the analog part.

does someone sell db15(neogeo)-db25 adapters? I need 4 for my two S-JIHPs :D (i don't think I have the time to solder 60 pins) :(

Jasen's sell similar adapters, but his DB25 standard is diferent to the S-JHIP standard :(
 

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mmm that's right, i didn't think about the analog part.

does someone sell db15(neogeo)-db25 adapters? I need 4 for my two S-JIHPs :D (i don't think I have the time to solder 60 pins) :(

Jasen's sell similar adapters, but his DB25 standard is diferent to the S-JHIP standard :(
If you think about it you will only be soldering 15 wires. You just need a DB25 connector, DB15 connector, 15 wires, and solder. You can make one in maybe 15 minutes.
 

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I personally just use the Net City control panel connectors for all of my stuff, since most of the time when I buy a new panel that's what it's already wired for. then all my panels are cross compatible between my bench setup and my net-city.
 
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