Interest check: batch of Wiimote 2 JVS Interfaces (Naomi / Lindbergh)

[jkl]

W - A - I - T

While writing here I asked to my brother-in-law if prices were ok.
It turns out that I looked for single-layer while we need double layer.
And more than this he suggested to purchase the more expensive "double layer plus" (http://www.mdsrl.it/mdpcb.html), because it includes serigraphy & solder mask on both sides. He says that solder mask is that usually green paint that leaves only solder points visible, so you haven't to follow all of the traces to understand were you have to solder.


Prices are completely different, sadly:
MDsrl: 128,15 + 143, 41 + 128,15 + 12 (shipment) = 41,18 € for each kit. 11 days for shipment.
PCBway: S A M E as single layer, and they are including solder mask as well as silkscreen (it's what I called "serigraphy" previously).

So forget italian printer, we like China much more!

 

[jkl]

Next step is take the components list, go to my local retailer, and get final quote.

Then we'll can proceed to fund raising (Paypal) and ordering...

 

[jkl]

Really nobody has enough electronics-fu to double check my components list?

 

[arcadeWC]

Sorry, but just a clarification on this kit and its possible uses. For the most part, it has been discussed as a replacement for JVS gun controls for Naomi, etc. However, I am wondering about using it for driving games and using a Wiimote and essentially a steering wheel (non fixed) and for any driving game for the Naomi, Lindbergh, etc. I assume perhaps any issues with accuracy and lag would be less of a concern with a driving setup than with the gun games? I am envisioning playing Mario Kart Arcade GP 2 with a Wiimote and steering wheel holder and without requiring a fixed steering wheel attached to the arcade cabinet itself. Is this indeed possible or is it strictly for gun use at this point.

 

[SNK-NEO-GEO]

I am still in...

also none related - @Mitsu I am getting this when i try send a PM "You have reached your maximum limit of conversations and are unable to start new ones.".. I am trying to delete my PMs seem to be full but I am unable to delete or do not see where i can delete

 

[Mitsurugi-w]

I am still in...

also none related - @Mitsu I am getting this when i try send a PM "You have reached your maximum limit of conversations and are unable to start new ones.".. I am trying to delete my PMs seem to be full but I am unable to delete or do not see where i can delete

It's a bit deceiving. The software for the site doesn't have PMs, it has 'conversations'. We changed the name to PM to stop confusion. In order to 'delete' a PM you need to leave the conversation. To do this just go to the full PM list screen, check the box next to the conversations you want to get rid of, and select 'leave' at the bottom. This will free space for you though the conversation is not fully deleted until all recipients leave the conversation.

 

[jkl]

Sorry, but just a clarification on this kit and its possible uses. For the most part, it has been discussed as a replacement for JVS gun controls for Naomi, etc. However, I am wondering about using it for driving games and using a Wiimote and essentially a steering wheel (non fixed) and for any driving game for the Naomi, Lindbergh, etc. I assume perhaps any issues with accuracy and lag would be less of a concern with a driving setup than with the gun games? I am envisioning playing Mario Kart Arcade GP 2 with a Wiimote and steering wheel holder and without requiring a fixed steering wheel attached to the arcade cabinet itself. Is this indeed possible or is it strictly for gun use at this point.

I think it cannot do what you want, since steering is done primarily by using accelerometers, this setup relies on IR emitters instead.

 

[jkl]

JKL x2
Darksoft x1
Fastar x1
freddiefiasco x1
Mitsurugi-w x2
Gakman x2 (no PICs)
werejag x1
SNK-NEO-GEO x1

TOTAL 11 pcs.

Since printers have fixed quantities 5 by 5 I can buy just 1.
So 10 kits until now.

 

[SNK-NEO-GEO]

I am still in...

also none related - @Mitsu I am getting this when i try send a PM "You have reached your maximum limit of conversations and are unable to start new ones.".. I am trying to delete my PMs seem to be full but I am unable to delete or do not see where i can delete

It's a bit deceiving. The software for the site doesn't have PMs, it has 'conversations'. We changed the name to PM to stop confusion. In order to 'delete' a PM you need to leave the conversation. To do this just go to the full PM list screen, check the box next to the conversations you want to get rid of, and select 'leave' at the bottom. This will free space for you though the conversation is not fully deleted until all recipients leave the conversation.

Got it.. thank you! Mitsu

 

[twistedsymphony]

I am wondering about using it for driving games and using a Wiimote and essentially a steering wheel (non fixed) and for any driving game for the Naomi, Lindbergh, etc.

yes, you could technically use this but not in the way you're thinking.
this setup doesn't use a Wii-Remote, but rather it uses the camera from a Wii-Remote. that means it's a pointing device ONLY.

You could still hook the outputs up like normal analog controls but you'd be pointing at the right side of the screen to turn right, pointing at the left side of the screen to turn left and pointing toward the top to accelerate (you wouldn't be able to brake as that would require a 3rd axis and pointing only provides two).

-------------
Using a complete Wii Remote to act like a steering wheel as you described would require a completely different set of custom interface hardware, you'd have to have something that connects to the Wii remote via blue-tooth and interpret the accelerometer readings into directions and then perform digital to analog conversion for the output to the arcade board.

This is a lot more difficult than it seems as the accelerometer data is all over the place and extremely noisy. the Wii itself has lots of algorithms for smoothing out the data, eliminating outlier data points and making it "feel right". This is the reason most motion controls suck, because the algorithms responsible for making sense of this data are difficult to get right.

 

[arcadeWC]

I am wondering about using it for driving games and using a Wiimote and essentially a steering wheel (non fixed) and for any driving game for the Naomi, Lindbergh, etc.

yes, you could technically use this but not in the way you're thinking.this setup doesn't use a Wii-Remote, but rather it uses the camera from a Wii-Remote. that means it's a pointing device ONLY.

You could still hook the outputs up like normal analog controls but you'd be pointing at the right side of the screen to turn right, pointing at the left side of the screen to turn left and pointing toward the top to accelerate (you wouldn't be able to brake as that would require a 3rd axis and pointing only provides two).

-------------
Using a complete Wii Remote to act like a steering wheel as you described would require a completely different set of custom interface hardware, you'd have to have something that connects to the Wii remote via blue-tooth and interpret the accelerometer readings into directions and then perform digital to analog conversion for the output to the arcade board.

This is a lot more difficult than it seems as the accelerometer data is all over the place and extremely noisy. the Wii itself has lots of algorithms for smoothing out the data, eliminating outlier data points and making it "feel right". This is the reason most motion controls suck, because the algorithms responsible for making sense of this data are difficult to get right.

Thanks for the response. So is this similar to the idea that you have shared before on the forums of which you "could" use a Type II IR setup (Gun Sensor board and LED boards) for any analog input and essentially could use it for driving games or anything with an analog signal? In essence, the Sega Type II guns would be pointed in the direction to "steer" the vehicle in Crazy Taxi or would it be different? If a gun sensor was used in a "homemade" steering wheel setup, would it be similar to the Wiimote 2 JVS or would it perform more as a traditional wheel? I am trying to find an effective way to play driving games on a standard NBA Jam arcade cabinet while also playing all the various Naomi, Triforce, and Chihiro games that include gun and driving games along with all the "regular" games and essentially switching back and forth via net booting. The guns will be fine as they can be mounted on the sides and not affected the control panel, however, the steering wheel is slightly more difficult and looking for the easiest way to play the great driving games available on these systems and to avoid "clunky" driving hardware to add on and off. Probably not really possible, but looking for all the options. One of the threads mentioned playing the driving games with essentially analog joysticks. I would potentially be interested in this as I have a set of analog joysticks from World Series Baseball 99 control panel and it is possible to use the buttons for acceleration and brake as would be the case with a Dreamcast setup? Even contemplated a rotary spinner with small steering wheel on it, but not sure the rotary spinners are analog or could serve this purpose. That is why the idea of a "wireless" steering wheel being used with JVS was intriguing as it allows for flexibility for those trying to play different games on one cabinet. Any ideas or thoughts would be welcomed.

 

[twistedsymphony]

In essence, the Sega Type II guns would be pointed in the direction to "steer" the vehicle in Crazy Taxi or would it be different?

the short description is this...

Driving controls are just just big fancy petals and wheels attached to a humble potentiometer... when you're steering a car or stepping on a pedal in a game you're just turning a stupid knob, nothing more, nothing less. you could buy a bag of potentiometers from eBay for less than $2 and play your driving games with those.

Even an analog joystick is more complex than the steering wheel in a driving game because there's are two gears mounted to the stick that turns two different knobs (one for left/right, one for up/down).

The Sega Type II IR guns, for all the PCB and wiring harness are nothing more than an elaborate potentiometer emulator. point the gun at the left of the screen and the sensors and harnesses and PCBs do some black magic and then "simulate" turning a pot all the way to the left. Point the gun at the right of the screen and the sensors and harnesses and PCBs do some black magic and then "simulate" turning a pot all the way to the right.

Since the NAOMI2GUN boards here are designed to replace the Sega Type II IR guns, they're the exact same thing... an elaborate, expensive, and complicated set of electronics designed to replicate the function of a couple of 20 cent potentiometers.

Theses aren't going to "drive where you point them" these are going to simulate turning the wheel half way to the left when the gun is pointed half way between the center and the left side of the screen. how that would actually translate in to game play is a total crap shoot and would probably vary wildly by game. Ultimately I'd suspect it's be entirely unplayable and very much not fun. The fact that it "works" is little more than a "huh, that's interesting"

With that said ANYTHING that is attached to a potentiometer or functions like a potentiometer can be used play driving games in your cab. This includes analog joysticks, analog sticks on game pads (xbox, playstation etc), 99% of console or PC racing wheels etc.

Things that are not potentiometers: the accelerometers in the Wii remote, the rotary encoder wheels used in spinners etc.

 

[arcadeWC]

Wow. Great information! Where else would one be able to find such information other than a website such as this; which is one of the great things about this community.
So in looking at this - can I assume that the three connectors on the potentiometer, each one would connect to the GND, Vcc, and A/D Ch of the analog inputs of a typical I/O board? In any particular order on the potentiometer? Does it matter which A/D Channel is used (do the 0-7 channels typically listed matter at any level)?

For a steering wheel- I can simply turn the "knob" of the potentiometer left, right, etc. and essentially have a steering wheel
For an accelerator - I can turn the knob left for slow and right for fast?
For a brake - I can turn the know left for no brake and right for brake?
Or something to that effect regarding the direction of which the knob of the potentiometer is turned?
Amazingly simple for the actual hardware used in these cases.

If that is the case, it seems a small steering wheel could be made that simply fits on top of the potentiometer and you can create a steering wheel of any size or function as long as it turns the potentiometer in both directions. Perhaps it isn't that simple.

If using a "button" and microswitch (digital) for an accelerator and break - what needs to take place between the microswitch and the analog input? A diode and some form of digital to analog conversation? Curious of further details on that process if possible.

The brake and accelerator are easier to deal with and could perhaps use a standard arcade set at the base of the cabinet, but the options available for the steering wheel are very interesting and it seems could be modified in many ways to create a "custom" steering wheel. 3d printer options?

Have looked into the PC wheel modifications, but they often seem very complicated and the modifications are somewhat extensive compared to the process you are describing. My small experience with modding PC wheels for the S-JIHP have not turned out very well for some reason. Purchasing a "stock" wheel that would be plug and play for arcade purposes in connecting to a JVS board would be a great thing if anyone is looking for a project.

Thanks for all the great information. Fun to learn more and more about this hobby.

 

[twistedsymphony]

I fear this is getting drastically off-topic for this thread. perhaps this driving controls discussion can be moved into it's own thread?

in any case...

If that is the case, it seems a small steering wheel could be made that simply fits on top of the potentiometer and you can create a steering wheel of any size or function as long as it turns the potentiometer in both directions. Perhaps it isn't that simple.

yes, it is that simple.

Generally one side of the pot will go to ground, the other side to +5V and the center will output the analog signal you desire.

basically a pot is a variable resistor, or rather 2 resistors. one that connects the left pin to the center, and the other that connects the right pin to the center. as you turn the pot in one direction one resistor gets smaller and smaller while the other gets larger and larger, turn it the other direction and the opposite occurs. together the resistance on each side will total the value of the resistor (in the case of most arcade pots: 5K ohms). the two sides work as a "Voltage Divider". so for a 5K pot turned all the way to the left the resistance between ground and the center pin might be 1ohm, while the resistance between 5V and the center pin will be 4999ohms so the output is ~0V, turn it all the way in the other direction and the resistance between ground and the center is 4999ohms while and the resistance between +5V and the center might be 1ohm so the output is ~+5V. move the pot in the center and the resistance on both sides will be about 2.5Kohms and as such it will settle in between the two voltages at ~+2.5V... and it works this way for all the voltages in between the two.

Does it matter which A/D Channel is used (do the 0-7 channels typically listed matter at any level)?

yes. in the same way it matters that you hook your buttons and your joysticks up to the correct pins. A particular game will expect the "steering pot" to be connected to say channel 0, so if you hook it to channel 1 instead then you might end up controlling acceleration with the steering wheel.

part of the problem with analog games is that they don't all use the same channels for the same things

If using a "button" and microswitch (digital) for an accelerator and break - what needs to take place between the microswitch and the analog input? A diode and some form of digital to analog conversation? Curious of further details on that process if possible.

if you want to use a button to control an analog signal you would want to have one pin of the button connected to +5V, then the output pin of the button would be connected to the appropriate analog channel AND you would connect that pin to a resistor (1K ohm or higher) with the other end of that resistor going to Ground.

this is a pull-down resistor, meaning that when the button is "disconnected" the resistor connected to ground forces the analog channel to ground (as if the pot was turned all the way down) then when you push the button 5V flows through the switch and to the analog channel basically ignoring the resistor (so the channel see 5V and acts as if the pot was turned all the way up).

obviously there's no middle ground in this setup, it's either all the way off or all the way on.

 

[werejag]

i can solder up your kits for 35 each shipped in usa

i just want to lower costs becuase im currently jobless and have wanted this for 3 years.

 

[Rorysean]

hello all can i order 2 of these hope i am not to late. what is the price?

 

[jkl]

Sorry guys, been very busy @ work and with children @ home (both sick - chicken pox).

Project alive, need just some time to organize myself.

 

[Rorysean]

Hi jkl thanks for the reply
Hope the kids are OK. OK i will pay for 2 more boards . There may be some one on gameover that would like one i will put a post in.When are You going to order them? i will have 2 kits . Take it we pay you when you have the kits in your hand?


@werejag
i may intersted in your soldering services. if you can make them pre built.

 

[theoddtech]

I would take a kit as well! I know you have to keep to multiplies of 5, hopefully we can get to 15. I knew life can get crazy, we've all been there.

 

[jkl]

JKL x2
Darksoft x1
Fastar x1
freddiefiasco x1
Mitsurugi-w x2
Gakman x2 (no PICs)
werejag x1
SNK-NEO-GEO x1
Rorysean x2
theoddtech x1


TOTAL 14 pcs.

Come on, one more?