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Lightgun to USB

bobbydilley

bobbydilley

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Hi,

This is half between a project idea, and a showcase and to gauge interest.

I’m currently developing a board that will allow optical light guns (the ones that work on CRTs) such as HAPP or Namco Recoil Guns to work with a computer via USB to emulate a mouse.

The current constraints are that it will likely only support 640x480 using the current chip, and will obviously only work on CRTs.

The board will have a VGA in and out which the monitor cable will loop through, and then some connections for the gun.

I welcome any suggestions, and would be interested to know if anyone would want one? I know another company did make boards like this but they where very expensive, and I plan for mine to be much cheaper.

Thanks,

Bobby
 
I am sure you are referring to the other company that produced the USB2Gun and OptiGun board (I have one myself). You should know that I contacted the manufacturers of that board 3 months ago to ask if they were willing to make a new run of those boards. They told me they did that previously, thinking there was a market in the MAME commuity for it at $300 just for the board alone. They told me it took them ages to sell out of that run and they wouldn't be doing it again.

Of course if you do produce the board, your customers would have to add in the cost of the recoil guns and the need for a 24volt PSU to make the recoil guns work. If you go with guns that don't recoil, then some expense is spared, but the cost for entry is still high.
  • A new set of CRT recoil guns is $300
  • A 24-volt PSU, let's say is $50
  • Then add in the cost of your board
If you don't have recoil guns, the cost for entry is simply $150 plus the expense of your board.

I am assuming your board is for MAME and a few other emulators. Keep in mind, the MAME crowd (enthusiasts) isn't the same in terms of willingness to spend as the arcade crowd (collectors) is. That is why the AIMTrack guns fill that niche so well. If you are doing this as a labor of love and don't care about profit and can stand to lose some sleep and cash, go for it. Also, bear in mind there are logistics involved, like you will be shiping packages yourself. But there is a very thin market for this given the type of games played today.
 
@acblunden2 Thanks for your insight, that’s really helpful. As you said, it’s more a labour of love with an if anyone wants one I’ll make a few feeling. I would make it work with MAME, but am also looking at making it JVS compatible so you could use it as a replacement for the gun io on things like a Naomi, Chihiro etc. The project started as I managed to get a Namco Recoil gun for £30 - but you make a good point that for most people it could cost a lot!

I’m wondering if there would be more of a market for it if the boards where more like £40/50?
 
bobbydilley said:
I’m wondering if there would be more of a market for it if the boards where more like £40/50?
Click to expand...
At that price, you would have a hit on your hands. Lot's of MAME guys would love to have commercial light guns in their MAME cabs instead of the AIMTracks. You'll probably will have more demand than you can supply, but.......

........you say that your board will only work with VGA. Considering Happ guns are CRT only. Understand that you are narrowing down your market significantly. If you can make it work for CGA and VGA then you should have no problems selling it. For instance, the USB2Gun/OptiGun (same board from what they say) has two versions. One that works with JAMMA and can work at CGA and VGA resolutions for upgrade kits. And one that was included in dedicated VGA cab games like America's Army. I am not sure if the dedicated one works with CGA. That is the one I have and from the manual it says, it is just a jumper setting for VGA mode but there isn't mention if it works with CGA. I would encourage you to make one that works with JAMMA at CGA resolution.

Paging @twistedsymphony since he mentioned he was looking to find a USB2Gun and might be interested in this.
 
I would totally be done for this, mainly because we have many dead lightgun cab that could be gutted and converted.
 
@acblunden2 Thanks for all the info on the USB2GUN board. In terms of VGA/CGA, VGA would be the maximum it would support as a resolution of 640x480 is getting closed to the clock speed of the chip. I believe that CGA is a lower resolution, so CGA should just work out the of the box in theory - but I'll keep that in mind when I write more of the software! Most of the software is down now, I just need to start to wire the cables and test so I shall update everyone on its state of working soon!

@LuKa Thanks for the interest - I'd love to come down to Timewarp if I get these boards ready and help you convert some cabs over!
 
Beyond just resolution, CGA for JAMMA is DC-coupled on the RGB lines at a higher voltage than VGA. Also, H and V sync composited. You might know this already, but viletim paints a pretty clear picture about the subject here.

FYI, here is what the USB2Gun board that works with JAMMA and VGA looks like. As you can see, there is a JAMMA edge connector. Don't know if your board will have that. But will be very interested in what you come up with.
 
I have been following this for some time and I would definitely be interested. Can it also work the other direction - using a USB gun for arcade hardware (i.e. JVS and Sega arcade hardware such as Naomi, Chihiro, Lindbergh? That was also one of the initial thoughts - the ability to use a AimTrak (for example) for any JVS arcade hardware. Either way, it is a good concept and would support the work. Thanks.
 
arcadeWC said:
I have been following this for some time and I would definitely be interested. Can it also work the other direction - using a USB gun for arcade hardware (i.e. JVS and Sega arcade hardware such as Naomi, Chihiro, Lindbergh? That was also one of the initial thoughts - the ability to use a AimTrak (for example) for any JVS arcade hardware. Either way, it is a good concept and would support the work. Thanks.
Click to expand...
First I have heard of this effort. @bobbydilley, do you have a website where you have posted this project elsewhere?
 
@acblunden2 Thanks for the heads up, looks like I’d have to add a little bit of circuitry to separate the sync signals but shouldn’t be too hard. I don’t have to look at the RGB wires so they aren’t an issue!

@acblunden2 @arcadeWC Thanks for the message! My other project that does the reverse of this is here JVS Emulator. Sorry I’m typing on my phone so hard to make it a link. To do the reverse requires completely different hardware, so I wouldn’t be able to make a board that did both either way round. The state of that project is that it works as a proof of concept, and if you understand python then it should work with an aim track on a Sega Naomi etc out of the box running the software on a computer. It however wasn’t playing ball with a raspberry pi, and so I’ve posponed it for a while so I can go back to it with a fresh set of eyes later. If you want to use it, the python version is probably the most functional at the moment.

@LuKa Looking forward to it mate!
 
I am in for one and I would love a full combo with recoil guns. I am less interested in Mame compatibility and more interested on Naomi/lyndy etc compatibility.
 
As a little update, I have wired up the gun and can see that it’s getting signals from the CRT - however it cannot get signals on black parts of the screen - I’m woundering if this would be an issue? I may have to add something in to flash the screen white, as I don’t believe any games other than Ninja Assult would flash the screen?

Waiting for a Namco hvbuff board to come, which allows me to wire into the sync signals - at that point I should have a proof of concept and will create a new thread in the Project Showcase section with more details.
 
Update:

A little proof of concept - as I had suspected, there are big issues with the screen not being bright enough for it to pick up the position properly. I'm not sure if anyone knows of any CRT games where the screen does not get flashed - as I'm wondering if they managed to get around it another way? To fix this I will add a screen flasher on the board, so that when you press the trigger it will flash the screen itself, regardless of the game.

I am also slightly worried that the Arduino is not quite powerful enough, it was giving me smooth results on the Y axis, but not on the X axis (which requires much faster interrupting and processing). I may have to move to a slightly more beefy processor for this to work properly.
 
I went through this shopping process recently after being so disappointed with my Aimtrak. I came to the conclusion that, for the handful of actual light gun games, I was better off buying a PS2 and a Guncon2.

The official Namco Guncon 2 gun is the absolute best home light gun I have ever used and I have tried a lot. It's accuracy and ease of use is comparable to the best arcade light guns and noticeably better than the ones I tried last week for House of the Dead and Jurassic Park.

Someone already started (and got quite far) with writing drivers to use a guncon2 on a PC. My preference would be to see that project completed and instead of the new USB2gun, make a gun shell and recoil kit for a guncon2 sensor.

For directional gun games, which make up a large portion of arcade guns, you can already buy a real arcade gun and wire up the pots to an Apac. I did this with an Operation Thunderbolt gun. Much better than using an Aimtrak.
 
@Zebra Thanks for your input, I've seen the Guncon 2 project for pc and it looks super cool! The only issue is you need to output composite video from your computer I believe, or someone would have to make a board to convert the sync signals from VGA which could be done!

I'm currently looking for some fixed guns, as I feel like thats one of the best ways to play (and especially since my favourite game is Lets Go Jungle). I'm looking for some lets go jungle guns atm, but may take a look at what the Operation Thunderbolt guns are like.

Maybe a new project would then be to start producing boards, that would convert VGA sync signals to composite ones that the Guncon 2 would understand?
 
Or alternatively take the board out of the guncon2, and wire the optical sensor from a Recoil gun to the guncon2 board so that it is external to the Recoil gun and doesn’t require any modification for the recoil gun.
 
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